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| Organizations (1242 Posts)
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khrt
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On 12/20/2001 Dave G
wrote in from
(208.29.nnn.nnn)
Hugh R,
good plan!! To simplify it another step why not try throwing out the fastest ,and slwest stop watch time and simply use the middle ?
Save on calculations and achieve still a fairly mean average!!
Dave G
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g.r.a.s.s.
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On 12/19/2001
Alan Sidlo
wrote in from
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
Thanks steelwheelBob, I think the seeds have been planted and now it is time to grow someg.r.a.s.s.
Thanks for everyone who are involved...
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G.R.A.S.S.
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On 12/19/2001
steelwheelBob
wrote in from
(4.41.nnn.nnn)
Alan, in answer to your questions.
I have no intention of starting or leading any slalom organization nor do I have any desire to alter or change
the course of anyone's vision. As most of you know,
I'm the president of WFSA and have my hands full with
that commitment. Over there I am a chief, over here I get
to be an indian and I intend to be a darn good indian. I will join and support what ever organizations pop up that
I feel have their goals and values in the right places.
I will staff, provide labor, donate graphics, and advise
and share my knowledge and any relevant information
gleaned from WFSA.
I like the short view you presented, Alan. I think it is a good idea to develop a variety of organizations and I see that happening as we speak. What I don't see is a move
to assemble an international organization and I feel that is something that should be done soon. Because of
what my best friends, George and Carole Leone, had to
go through to get the Human Powered Vehicle Racing
community on the same page, I strongly recommend
starting international organizing right now. It took Carole Leone three years to form a smooth union of some 300
independent HPV groups so that universal standards,
and rules etc. for racing could be established, applied and maintained. It's going to be a lot easier to manage the challenges of developing the international slalom community if a World organization is in place at the get-go, than several years after other organizations have taken root.
Everyone here seems to have a slightly different view
of what an international ogranization is and does and
what path it should take and who it should serve, and
to what end.
WFSA chose it's path based on the belief that survival of the species was job number one. A strong belief in self reliance and self determination is what your neighbors next door are using as the foundation and architecture of their brave new world.
If the Knuckelheads currently have a loose association
in place internationally already, I would think that this would be a natural place from which to spawn a definative World Organization with the broad based
objectives Alan has mentioned.
WFSA does have a program, through CFSL in the works that will stage a small local workshop/contest
series that includes slalom, freestyle, and 360's.
( working title: Richy Carrasco King360 Series)
Many WFSA area reps, world wide, are corssover
slalom and freestyle skaters, Claude, Richy and
YoYo are a few.
CFSL is a California associate member organization
of the WFSA and plans to function as a lightweight
version of CASL and promote the activities that organization droped in 1991. I have mentioned
to Cliff that I intend to reestablish the Oceanside contest of the 70's as the "Dale Smith Oceanside Classic" and the legendary Cow Palace contest
as the "Cliff Coleman Cow Palace Classic" as
(but at a different location in the Bay Area) ongoing
annual events that would be State Am Championship level events for Freestyle, Slalom, and 360's.
small unimportant side note....I won the last CASL
flatland event, in the 17 and over shop sponsored
division in 1991, at age 48 on the same day as my 30th
high school reunion, then placed 4th in the Am division
in San Francisco at the 2000 World Freestyle Skateboard Championships, on the very same steel
wheel 2x4 skateboard that I rode at La Costa last month.
Thanks for reading all this...steelwheelBob
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Real Racing
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On 12/19/2001
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
hr: The simplicity of this plan is what's make it most appealing. Fast paced and fun...
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popcorn
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On 12/19/2001
hg
wrote in from
(208.14.nnn.nnn)
Arab - problem with your proposal is the time it would take to reset cones, assuming no penalty. Also, I think it becomes tougher to tell if someone missed a cone. Hugh's proposal is pretty interesting - kind of a king-of-the-hill deal.
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penalties
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On 12/19/2001
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Thanks Claude!
For brain storming sack, lets say that we change the scenerio to be hit 3 cones, no problem... hit 4 cones, go home.
If we don't have a time penalty for hitting a non-DQing number of cones, then we don't have to worry about having a timer on that race. First guy across wins and advances.
What I am really attempting with this line of reasoning is to be able to get around having a timing system.
I understand that for a tight slalom course, especially a short one, that time penalties on cones could well be the difference between 1st and 5th... so this idea is probably not best for the real wiggly courses. I am invisioning more of a fast drawn out Super GS type course or a loose hybrid. On the shorter tighter courses, a timer would be critical.
Keeping in mind that the plan would be to let as many people who showed up with their two bucks be able to have a good clean shot at qualifying. So I am hoping we can come up with a way to keep the staging/racing going quickly.
Thoughts? HR
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timing
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On 12/19/2001
Claude
wrote in from
(66.185.nnn.nnn)
hugh - yes that would work.
-another way for recording time would be to drop the high and low but I think I like yours better. You would have to be aware of who is timming and who is racing.
-Don't like the Idea of not counting penalties for hitting cones. You are asking beginers, novice and intermediate competitors to be almost perfect. Let alone the Pro's.
-count the cones on the course(40) - 10% rule 4th cone DQ-
-figuring penalty for hit cones . Top racer runs course at 20 sec. 50th person runs a 25 secs
- split the difference 22.5 divided by number of cones 40 =.06 per cone penalty.
You may want to have as many as 3 people on the finnish for the line call as well.
-Lastly, you must always make sure that the fastest remaining racer is paired vs the slowest remaining competitor (1-32 - 2-31 - 31 beats 2 - 32 faces 1 if he advances.
-Let me know if you need a hand if I'm available and in the area would love to pitch in.
That goes for - Anyone - Anywhere - Anytime - Anything Sk8 related, Okay maybe Hockey - Eh!
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timing
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On 12/19/2001
hugh r
wrote in from
(64.8.nnn.nnn)
Lets say you have 100 racers... and no real timing system. Suppose that you have 3 guys with stop watches... then suppose you gave everybody a run through each side of the mirrored courses.
Take the times off the 3 watches, divide by 3... add the two runs together to get the course time. Top 24 go to the A group... Next 24 go to the B group... everyone else sits on the bench.
Faster qualifier always picks the lane.
Race single elimination at this point. Miss a cone, go home. Hit 3 cones, go home. Hit 2 cones, no penalty.
1 races 24, 2 races 23, 12 races 13, etc... winner of 1/24 races winner of 12/13... and so on until you have the top guys... they get the prizes.
Have a start line judge... false start, go home. Have a finish line judge who's single pair of eyeballs says who crossed first.
Would that work? HR
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g.r.a.s.s.
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On 12/19/2001
cfavero
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
alan,i agree whole heartedly.we have both talked about some outlaw races for some time,but have never budged.time is now,we should not let the cold factor in too much.just a few basic rules,set a course,everyone throws a fiver in the pot,winner take all.we just need to work out the timing,nothing to serious,take turns being the start judge timer etc.i would like to do it this weekend.interms of location there is the spot out west,or the museum campus,your caqll,heck we could do it sunday if need be,but sat is my preference.who is in,c-money,stevem,alan,et al,lets do it, cf
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G. R. A. S. S.
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On 12/19/2001
Alan Sidlo
wrote in from
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
I would like to see if I could be of assistance in the creation of the Grass Roots Association of Slalom Skateboarders. It should be an all-inclusive organization for skaters by skaters that will in turn support other more localized and national organizations. I figure that the Knuckleheads (which will remain a "team") is a great start and the existing members, which now cover the globe, would be a good start. Let me know what you think.
Bob "steel wheel" Staton: I would like to get you take on this matter... or let me know if you have plans in this regard already.
Everbody else: Get ready to give a hand...
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what ever works
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On 12/19/2001
loneskater
wrote in from
(159.87.nnn.nnn)
the continued discussion of racing is still leaving a bad taste in my mouth. going to invitational only events. ok i can see the x games being that way or some major televised event. but, if i pay my money and only get one shot to qualify i am ok with that too. I GET THE OPPORTUNITY. if i make the time/cut, i get to race. if i don't fine i pack my board and help where i can. when there is no oportunity to participate on an even playing field,pro or not, i'm out. i been skating a long time without any participation in organized events and i can go back to the pools and hills another 20 years. Hugh R, any time in the summer you want to cool off and cruise some beautiful hills, you and yours are welcome at my house.
2.5 hours from the Grand Canyon, Az. George. skater4life.
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khrt
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On 12/19/2001 cfavero
wrote in from
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hey,its pretty cool that there seems to be some sort of consensus forming in terms of the need to have a governing body.at first iwas like,what,more rules?but the larger contests will swell in size and we all need to start having smaller events like wlac,mostly to have fun,even better we do need to be on the same page.any way i am still looking for the "barrel jump" forum.later.cf
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Big Time
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On 12/18/2001
hg
wrote in from
(208.14.nnn.nnn)
Hugh - there's certainly more than enough hype everywhere you look, and I can see your concern in how "Big Time" slalom events might somehow diminish the sport, especially if they don't achieve their goals. Or maybe the opposite happens, and this thing becomes a huge fad, taking our breath away, and then collapsing as quickly as it grew.
Speaking as an individual participant rather than a vendor, if I had my druthers, the sport would continue to grow organically as it did in 2001, and those of us who got to race could recall these pioneering events fondly, passing on our hard-gained knowledge to next generations with an air of self-satisfaction. Of course, that would be an elitist view of things.
I look at the the more competent street and vert boarders as well as freestyle snowboarders today, and I am BLOWN AWAY by the skills they exhibit. Of course, I started 3 or 4 decades too late, but if I somehow could apply my talents to their disciplines, could I accomplish what they have ? I then think about what happens when they focus their attention on MY sport, and I know that someday most of us will be left in the dust. Most of the great talents in our sport today are in their late 30's to mid 40's, and it won't be so long before most are taken down by 'kids' in their 20's.
Does this diminish our enjoyment ? Maybe a bit, if we harbored unrealistic goals. But if we love the sport, maybe this brings us more opportunity to participate and compete at the appropriate level. And the cool thing is that we got to be *there* in the good old days.
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World Organizations
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On 12/18/2001
GBJ
wrote in from
(24.38.nnn.nnn)
I've said before that properly operating a single business entity that is truly "international" in its' scope is well beyond my current capacity, and I recommend that it's fairly well beyond our needs at this point, BUT... Claude's suggestion is wonderful. (Except he needs to drop one of them "S"'s from everyone elses acronym, because the first one in the USSSF, stands for the "States" in "United States".) In my opinion, the implied solidarity of the similar naming conventions can only lead to good things; official or unofficial.
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response
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On 12/18/2001
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
HG,
Thank you for your thought provoking response... and your right, something does bother me about this. I think it really seems like "a cart going before the horse" type thing to me... but I may be short sighted on this one.
Do you remember the XFL? It was a pro-wrestling version of the NFL. I knew when I saw it the first time that it wouldn't last the season... and it seemed to have some real good backing. Sure enough, it's gone.
Now I am not saying that Slalom is like the XFL... not exactly sure why that paticular comparison came to mind, but it did.
If cross over skaters do get inticed by big slalom purses then you may have a point... and I would understand the need for restricting premier races to the best of the best... but if the big dollars don't materialize and the cross overs don't cross over, then the only pool of skaters to really pull from are the ones who were chased away by what seems to be going on now.
Keep in mind that I am not a slalom guy... my first practice run at La Costa added up to more cones than I had EVER run cumlativly in my whole life. Slalom is not in my blood the way it is in so many of those on this board. I raced ONLY because it was La Costa. I would have been there racing or not, supporting my fellow skaters and friends.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I just don't see slalom going big time... I really don't see it. For those putting their dollars, blood, sweat, and tears into it... I sure hope I'm wrong! But I honestly don't see it happening.
What I HAD seen as having real potential was races like La Costa happening all over the place... with a real grass roots backing of regular guys... old and young alike...
I beleive that who ever promotes and stages the race should set all the rules... so whatever happens, happens.
I can live without ever running a cone again... easily... it's really not my thing.
But the vibe had been so good that I had to give it a go... and I had a BLAST at La Costa... HH put on a wonderful event and I'll remember it fondly.
So maybe my opinion isn't all that valuable because of my perspective... A guy who loves skating... tried slalom once... met some great people and some not so great people too.
HR
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USSSF
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On 12/18/2001
GBJ
wrote in from
(24.38.nnn.nnn)
Even now, before any formal "Grand Opening", I know the U.S. Slalom Skateboarding Federation will never be a able to keep everyone happy all of the time, but I can assure you all that much of what is concerning you now will be addressed. I also believe that more of you will end up more satisfied than any of you might believe would be possible at this point.
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USSSF Extension
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On 12/18/2001
Claude
wrote in from
(66.185.nnn.nnn)
Okay-I see my question a couple of days ago regarding the USSSF has raised interesting conversation.
While I go back about 30 posts and catch up you guys can think about this one or two.
Gbj we talked about seperate countries and joint partnerships to join the entire Slalom community. This is more of a fresh Idea thet popped in to that THICK SKULL of mine.
USSSF represents the US- CSSSF-represents Canada- ESSSF-represents European if they want to end the ISSA - This would be one way of showing worldwide unity and as new arms band together They start at the front SSSF -
Just a thought - Jean-Michel- what you think? EH!
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NRA
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On 12/18/2001
hg
wrote in from
(208.14.nnn.nnn)
Hugh - I think you're missing an important point. If the sport were to stay at its current level, there'd be no reason to exclude anyone from racing at any event, because the size of the competitor pool would be manageable. However, if the large events start offering real prize money, you're going to see a lot of crossover talent from street and vert skating, as well as ski and snowboard racing, and probably more foreign competitors.
You saw Brad Edwards and Ben Schroeder come out of slalom nowhere at Morro Bay to make the finals cut. If you watched Andy MacDonald or Bob Burnquist (very credibly) trying the La Costa course, it's not difficult to imagine a lot of very talented younger skaters from other disciplines jumping into slalom. Sadly for some of us as competitors, there won't be room any more at top level events. However, that's what happens when a sport grows.
Something bothers you about all of this, and I'm missing it.
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NRA
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On 12/18/2001
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
I like that name Hugh. Heck, why not...
...figured it's worth a shot!
Check out my entry into the NCDSA putting my name in for the Morro Bay event:
On 3/14/2001 Alan Sidlo wrote in from 198.160.xxx.xxx:
...just a nobody from nowhere with nothing to loose. Guess you can count me in!
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USSSF
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On 12/18/2001
hg
wrote in from
(208.14.nnn.nnn)
Probably half the entries at WLAC hadn't started (restarted) racing when Morro Bay happened 7 months ago, and WLAC was a tough course. A few weeks ago, I thought that USSSF was premature, but maybe I was wrong. If USSSF can facilitate more events at a regional level, whether or not they tie in to a pro-level series like TLP, then it's probably a good thing.
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NRA
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On 12/18/2001
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
George,
Don't fret! You are in great company with a whole bunch of us other nobodies!
I think that GBJ (if that's his real name) will be able to do us some good... just needs to change the name to NRA (Nobodies Racing Association)... and our support.
What will become of World Class Slalom if we who are less skillful, slower, fatter (well, maybe not fatter and hardly less eloquent) are allowed to race with the somebodies? What will happen if we're not?
Some would have you beleive that if we who are slow, we who are not somebodies (that makes us nobodies... I have to say that a lot, because not only are we nobodies, we're not too bright either), that if we are "allowed" to compete alongside the somebodies, that tragic things of biblical proportion are bound happen. Dogs and Cats sleeping together type stuff...
Some would have you believe that what is needed is seperate BUT equal racing venues... that way those who are nobodies will not interfere with those who are somebodies thus polluting the very cones upon which the very world revolves.
Some would have you beleive that the only thing that is keeping World Class Slalom from being in the X-games/Vans Tour/Olympics/The Moon is because there are some nobodies who are trying to push their way into becoming somebodies.
There are those who would have you beleive that I am being sarcastic with this post of mine... they would be wrong... I am very serious.
What will become of World Class Slalom once that wonderous day arrives when all the nobodies have been banished from the presence of the sacred cones... Well, it will be the same place it is now... HR
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KHRT/USSSF
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On 12/18/2001 loneskater
wrote in from
(159.87.nnn.nnn)
well, it been said on the slalom board,a place i dare not post right now. you may not like the fact that Arab was right, "the promotors are going to do what they are going to do". hell, at this point, the way it appears, i don't even know if i can race with the boyz. hey, i am a nobody, just a 39 year old skater having fun with a bunch of other older guys that remembered a way of skateboarding almost lost until last year. my last "real" race was in 78 or 79 in florida and i was what 15-16? up until La Costa which was a blast. (i was planning on going to three or four of these events, rumored to be, Portland, Colorado, and 2 Cali events on my own nickle) Hugh R had a great after post but i don't think anyone took serious notice, "they have assumed control." arab sugested that the USSSF get something going to bring us (i guess those not in the loop and/or from Cali)up to par or should i write speed. i am not slamming Jack and the work they are doing, he is an asset to the sport, but i worried about eleitism in the past and a got jumped. i now sugest the latest in training tecniques, find the largest hill you can, bolt on hardest wheeels, point board down, and go like hell. only the strongest survive. and what will become of slalom again?
George.
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khrt
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On 12/18/2001
cfavero
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
hey, the "secret" to the secret decoder rings is theres a little gps thingy in it,this coupled with gis technology being worked up means someone is looking to steal your secret spot.i believe there are larger,unseen,evil forces at work in the downhill world,only time will front it out.cf
p.s.i hope noone here fell for that barcode tattoo scam from last year,i warned you on that one too
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KHRT
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On 12/18/2001
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
I have recieved and will continue to recieve the emails from all my accounts. I just have been slow in acting on most of the requests I'm afraid. So not to worry!
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KHRT
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On 12/18/2001
Paul K
wrote in from
(195.110.nnn.nnn)
Mr LloYd
( Damn, i will never get the hang of that UPPER/lower case thing)
Did you get the mail regarding the Tee's for the UK
Paul K
KHRT UK
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