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| Riding Techniques (3851 Posts)
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seattle pump
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On 2/11/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
hey david - we've been testing the Velodrome which is a WICKED ride! The main issue there is logistics with scheduling/county agreement, since the 'primary use' is for track bikes. Two other places we've checked are both indoor, as we wanted a 'guaranteed' event that won't get rained out -- one is a skating rink and the other a retired airplane hangar. But the Velodrome is so freakin cool, plus cheaper, so that's our first choice... Gotta get some ink on paper before posting a signup.
Drop a line and we'll hit the Velodrome in the morning before the bikers are out! In fact I just posted up some of our test runs there up on our 'images' page on pavedwave.com...
http://home.comcast.net/~jampet99/images/circuitLongboarding.wmv
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seattle pump fest
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On 2/8/2005
david
wrote in from
United States
(68.167.nnn.nnn)
what kind of track are you talking about here. a velodrome where they race track bikes would be sick, super banked turns, i believe there is one in the seattle area.
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circuit longboarding - lap race
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On 2/4/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
all YO's aside -- I got more questions than anything -- It would be cool to hear from others who've longboarded LAPS what kind of techniques you've come up with - like maintaining speed through turns?! The main thing I've found is just keeping a fast cadence through the turn, then hit a couple good 'low gear' pumps just before each straightaway...the rest is endurance! On the oval track you can lock into some grooves and just ride on and on -- besides, riding a dry indoor circuit / garage is great for our rain-blasted northern regions.
Below should appear a diagram and stats on the proposed lap course which is being tested and hashed out for May. The 9-miler is only an idea to float. That would seriously be a loooong race, almost an hour!
Ideas and practice rides welcomed -- just drop a line -- if the local interest is decent it'll be easier to justify a venue I have in mind.
Tentative info on this 1st Seattle Groove event: May 2005 - (bldg/lot still TBD) ...and munson -- YO crazy, foo!!
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carving
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On 2/4/2005 iain
wrote in from
Netherlands
(195.92.nnn.nnn)
please could smeone tell me how to go down hills controlling your speed n not goin insanely fast and wiping out...........
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seattle groove race series
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On 2/1/2005
derek munson
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
pssst... listen- i don't mean to be sounding any alarms, but when peters' postings start to include a few too many YO's, that's a good indication he's feeling pretty good... That's all good for him, but it's trouble for the rest of us. I used to be able to crush this guy. Just smoosh him into the ground like a soggy sprinkled donut. But recently, he's been kickin' my hiney, and the only time i see him is when he's wiggling his butt to pass me. Yech- disgusting....
the seattle groove race series that he's putting together should be a real hoot. I've never been in an official skate race in my life, so i don't really know what to expect. But as far as long-distance pumping goes, that dude GOT GAME. And if that's not annoying enough, he's even willing to spill his secret strategies. Ugh...
derek munson
www.pavedwave.com
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Seattle Groove
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On 1/29/2005
Josh Burt
wrote in from
United States
(24.20.nnn.nnn)
Thanks guys!It's good to see more interest in these types of races.The Portland crew will be there,even if I have to buy the bus tickets!
There WILL be a border-to-border race in Portland this year.City limits to the Columbia River on the I-205 trail.Details to follow...
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The Seattle GROOVE - Pumpin' & Pushin' series
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On 1/25/2005
pavedwave
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
yo Yo YO! -- hope to see more of y'all on the trails YO! -- Gettin your groove on and rippin up the asphalt without puttin foot to ground -- CHECK IT!
That's what I'm talkin' about -- GROOVEBOARDING !! Groovin' on tha deck with the rhythm and tunes that make yo booty shake!!!
I burned up enough wingtips in my day poundin the pavement like a salesman outta hell -- no more brother!
You may know it as L.D.P. -- Long Distance Pumping -- Cross-country Pumpin -- Flat Land Racing, whatever you wanna call it, it definately ain't nothin' new, but what IS new is you got a couple a crazy MO-FO's up here in Seattle wanna get GROOVIN every day so let's HIT IT Y'ALL!! ;-)
Stay tuned for this NW series from May to August 2005:
There will be TWO divisions -
1. PUMP-ONLY (hence, the GROOVE)
2. PUSHERS (pushing and pumping, it's all good!!)
Two events in Seattle WA and one in Portland OR!
peters and munson
pavedwave.com
p.s. Thanks again Josh Burt for the "Portland Push" series in 2004 --- it's time for a couple roadtrips!
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PSR - Agrreed
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On 1/25/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
PSR, sorry you aint got flats. But as I skoggged down and the boardwalk today, I noticed I was becoming less and less conscious of my feet skoggin' to propel me forward. And pumpin' the deck is getting easier and easier switch-stance. So I bet Roe could kick-out a cool shape. I'll attempt to email him with my specs to see if he's interested. Thanks for the heads up. I'd love to R&D something that is great for skogging/pumpin.
Onwards and upwards for recreational skateboarding techniques.
cYa
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Snakeboard Stiffy
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On 1/23/2005
John in San Jose
wrote in from
United States
(66.123.nnn.nnn)
I picked one of these up used for $30. Seems the wheels are not original, look to be 68 to 70mm, glow in the dark about 80A or so. No label.
There's one toe clip held with one screw, about ready to fall off.
Does anyone have a writeup or video showing how to ride these?
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making a coustom board
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On 1/21/2005
nick
wrote in from
United States
(204.108.nnn.nnn)
send me any tequnics on carvig
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Not Skogging, just cruising turns
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On 1/21/2005 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
Chris, where I'm at, there's few flats to Skogg, and fewer hills that are 'mellow' in pitch. For years my main rides were either a pumpable kicktail (Krypto foamcore or G+S Fibreflex KT/TR), or something Slalom-like (my old Bahne!) that would wiggle across the hill enough to Slow Down.
Vermont, it ain't Flat.
When I and an old friend took a tree-bashed Burton and sliced off the nose, edges, and put some shape to it, tossed on the Extracks and Bullet Road Weapons, we had found an interesting new toy. We could pump the hell out of it, go down or up hill, and as long as the wheels stuck, could corner just tight enough to stay alive on 11% grades. I've been cuttng old otherwise-dead snowboards into cruise/carvers ever since. That was, um, '88 or so. The one key thing this type of board is missing is Concave (well, and a kicktail, unless you bolt a wedged block onto the tail), so foot placement suffers. Still, the basic idea is good enough that I put one together for Adam Schwippert to use as a crosstrainer for snowboard racing. In that it worked pretty well (he's in 1st place in So. VT. currently) despite needing a Hickory wood beam-stringer down the middle to prop up the flex. He used it in the Super-G at Morro Bay, and styled it nicely.
I've seen your Tracker boards, very nice, well shaped, but haven't gotten to hop on one. And it's on the 'wish list' for next spring. I'm still curious what it would be like if someone like Gareth Roe put it together. But I appreciate the detail in shaping, and the fact that unlike some of my Turners, it's usable for everyday riding, and rugged enough for commuter riding.
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PSR
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On 1/20/2005
cYa
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
TRACKER RULES!
PSR. My glasses need adjusting.
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Jack in Bor(Aurora)
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On 1/20/2005
cYa
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
thanks for the thoughtful post that I felt like breaking down every sentence and commenting. thank god i have some real work to do! j/k. i'm enjoing these online threads. dating channels suck! :D
dude, i guess it aint rocket science to see the reflex potential on varying cambered/concave/length/width/plys designs. and yes a flat composite boring continuum$$$ deck could prolly make up for what design/wood offers. the short wood decks with the top racers are around 32-34" and everyone having their feet directly over the trucks(in most cases) to wiggle down the chicken-a-la slalom courses where the brown bomber rips up good...(dudes. pumphouse was a killer awakeing for me. i posted a few pictures in the slalom thread a week ago. YOU GUYS ARE FAST!!!!!). its a good application of one deck design. but i'm all about recreational pumping and skogging and my boards are designed in that direction. and i feel 34-38" length by 8.34 - 10" is a sweet spot for someone 6' cranking. those original trucks got me smiling.
>>Does Concave affect a board's flex. Yup. Can it cancel out a cambered or rocker shape's 'normal' flex? Yup. Can it enhance the flex? Yup. Does it have to be made of exotic tuff? Nope, but the expensive materials can be used for their particular features, and can enhance the basic design.<<
stop mincing words! get out and see for yourself! :P
>>So, I have no disagreements , especially with you, Chris! :-)<<
i guess i'm guilty of the flame-bait sin. comes with the digital territory now amassing on the fronts of making s#@! happen! i'm jazzed over what you said.
hugz - cYa
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Camber and Concave
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On 1/19/2005 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
Mr. Yandall, Sir, just what are you disagreeing with? I am confused.
In my comments out camber and concave, I noted the only two boards I have that a continuous concave, ie, a concave that dosen't end abruptly where a kicktail starts. [That 'kink' is obviously there because molding a complex shape such as a concave that blends into a kicktail dosen't work well in mass manufacture. It is also where a good many boards break, though few of mine get ollied that hard anymore.] Both those boards are of rather unique construction, neither have Camber. In terms of shaping a board, I could see where either construction could be made to include camber while still retaining the seamless concave, but I doubt it would be particularly easy to do.
In looking through the various boards I have, only my once-usable Ick has a concave with a camber, and has no kicktail. It had a very responsive flex that featured a fairly sharp rebound rate, though maybe not quite as tight feeling as my Fullnose Turners(hmm,anti concave?!). So that leaves me with the impression that few people in the industry are actually looking, as you obviously are, at combining concave with camber. I do note that boards I have made from various combinations of glass + wood seem to be the majority of my pumpable boards, and these range from cut-down snowboards to Fibreflexes, a Caster, an N-Gen, and a Roe (which also has carbon fiber). There are of course a few Foam + Glass boards, my Turners,and again a Roe that is Carbon Fiber/Glass over Foam, but none of those have concave. So, I kinda get the picture that blending Concave and Camber isn't something that board makers have seen as necessary, or have found to be too costly. I also note that making seemless concaves that blend into tail or nose kick shapes are also pretty rare. Moreover, it seems that 'stretchable' materials are preferred to make complex curvatures in the board's shaping. The Comet Dh Spoon-nose is a masterful tour-de-force of just how vertical lamination can be made to work for multiple curvatures, and it also showcases composite construction in using glass and carbon fiber with a 'wood' core. That construction would be the way I'd go If I were to create a board with all of the features listed here; Concave, Camber, and smooth-blended Kicktail.
Could a board be made with those features from just Maple and Glass? I'd bet it could, but production issues would probably arise.
Does Concave affect a board's flex. Yup. Can it cancel out a cambered or rocker shape's 'normal' flex? Yup. Can it enhance the flex? Yup. Does it have to be made of exotic tuff? Nope, but the expensive materials can be used for their particular features, and can enhance the basic design.
So, I have no disagreements , especially with you, Chris! :-)
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swimming uphill on a flexy deck
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On 1/19/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
hey tom in toronto -- would be cool to see pics of that glass/wood deck you create! I also prefer flat or slightly cambered decks - one of my original motivations was to build a perfect downhill carve deck, and that deck shape evolved into a distance deck as well. In downhilling or short flatland sprints you can get some benefit from a little concave to grip your feet -- though it usually just boils down to personal preference.
Flat or very slightly cambered decks work best for me not so much in slalom-stance pumping/rebounding off the deck as in surf- or forward-stance gyration just over the front truck, while sliding the back of the deck laterally (perpendicular to the line of forward movement), using back wheels to propel forward, like fishtailing forward -- it's like SWIMMING UPHILL! The power comes from small repeated *twists* of the deck with more focus on maintaining speed and less emphasis on fast pump and acceleration.
We rode Flexdex 5-footers through a 25-mile Seattle event last summer - the trail has very little downgrade, so I used a lot of "fishtailing" pump to keep momentum and not burn out after 2+ hours. It also feels easier to mix up riding stance and get into these 'maintenance' grooves on the flatter/longer decks. The only issue I have with Flexdex is the weight - so we've been toying with wood-glass-CF decks now...looking into those options you mentioned like CF stringers, etc for strength up the middle. all good stuff -- Would really like to see your final product!
peters
pavedwave.com
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PSR - FLAT Decks no way
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On 1/12/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
I've been skating flat decks and flex decks all my life (35 years) and I'm finding a nice cambered / concave deck that matches your weight for stiffness is the way to go.
I haven't stopped skating. Although I don't compete I'm still riding vert, downhilling, skogging and deck pumping. My preference is a board with a snappy flex and you can get that from the inherent design stemming from the concave cambered combination. By varying the concave and the camber along with the maple plys factoring in width/length/shape, you can can get a custom flex from A-Z.
So I aint your typical pro from the old days singing the tune "the older I get, the better I was" from the couch. I'M ON THESE DAMN THINGS STILL SKATING MY HEART OUT! ;D
I'm sure there a tons of nice composite decks that would blow maple away but BANG for BUCK... a good maple cambered/concave deck is a great start.
so PSR, I flat out disagree with you :D
Cheers mate
cYa
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RE: G-Stop
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On 1/11/2005
3 Fingered Jack
wrote in from
United States
(192.35.nnn.nnn)
I don't know if this is a g-stop or not. I'm teaching my son a simple stop on this 4' incline parking lot I practice on. Anyway when I approach the bottom of the grade or hill or desired stopping point (whatever) I shoot wide to the right, then start a wide carve to the left and continue around until I'm pointing uphill again, continuing uphill and then I just cruise to a stop and step off. Its a really simple, easy to learn stopping method. Depending on how fast you're going you really can feel like you're pulling some G's. Bend your knees and wear your slide gloves just in case you loose the turn or hit a slick spot. I don't recommend this stop in heavy traffic areas, cars or other skaters.
Cheers,
3FJ
God rides a longboard.
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longboard pumping???confused
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On 1/10/2005
sam the tucan
wrote in from
United States
(68.118.nnn.nnn)
how do u gain speed without pumping??? i saw chris pastras do it in stereo "way out east" but i cant seem to get it... whats this called, is it skogging? anyway please help me out, email would be apreciated or if you have aol instant mesanger my s/n is: sound agent 052 (copy n paste!) thanks.
BOMB HILLS NOT COUNTRIES!
(me and my friends website, im sam) www.freewebs.com/readytoskate
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Wheelbase + Long Distance Pump
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On 1/9/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Hey PSR, your thoughts on wheelbases sound right on ("...you can pump on a long wheelbase, But, the timing gets elongated and effort gets higher...") -- wheelbase is an area I've come to find as critical in creating the most efficient long-distance pump, and to adjust the amount of Flex for extra long distance rides.
In short-distance / fast pump slalom races, any 1/8" wheelbase adjustment makes a detectable difference in response / pop from your deck, but in long-distance efficiencies, significant adjustments seem to be measured in closer to 1" or larger changes. In general, I've drilled out and moved the back trucks farther toward the tail looking for longer "sweet spots" on the Flexdex I use for distance rides, and also on the other "big guns" like the Luke Nosewalker and the Dregs.
Depending on the flex, I've found the best wheelbase for distance is somewhere in the 38"-42" range -- so even on the short 36" fiberglass decks you can lengthen wheelbase out toward the ends as much as possible, and get better long distance performance -- in the long run it reduces your pumping effort.
In fact after many miles of riding I think of this as "horizontal carving" - linking carve to carve - even though pumping is obviously a key component as well.
The out-of-the-box wheelbases on my 'big gun' decks are:
41.5" - Flexdex Pro60 model (60" total length - birch - flexy**)
36" - Dregs (56" total length - hard birch - medium**)
34" - Sector9 luke nosewalker (55" total length - hard maple - medium-stiff**)
** these are subjective observations of flex based on using an identical wheelbase of 40" and standing center of each deck with my massive 160lbs frame...
Of course, this is just wheelbases/deck observations in a vacuum. The rest of it boils down to the truck/bushing setup which I try to keep unchanged throughout these experiments (typically the Randal 150's or Gullwing Cruisers with stock Randal red bushing setup.)
cheers!
peters
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PSR
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On 12/20/2004 tom in toronto
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
Hi PSR.
I think I've had a change of heart on the whole concave + camber question and actually want a camber-only deck. I've really come to like the feel of the flat deck the way it flexes through carves...smooooooth. The concensus on the best lay-up for a deck like that seems to be a glass/birch-core/glass sandwich w a CF beam through the truckmounts(For my 210lbs). Agree or Disagree?
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Concave without weakness
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On 12/17/2004 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
I noted my Airtech, which has The Most buttery, perfect concave on it, because it's literally two deck shapes with a layer of foam between. The feel underfoot is of a seemless curvature both across the deck, and fore/aft along the area the front foot rests. This board is pretty hard to find now, and it always was one of my fave pool/ditch/ramp boards, but I use it less now due to it's rarity, and due to it's fragility.
What I noticed (after pawing thru the quiver) was that my Comet 40" 'Downhill' spoonnose also features a super-smooth concave that has almost no 'kink' in it's upward bend of the nose. This board is made of thin vertical laminates of Bamboo wrapped by fiberglass (carbonfiber added at the tail,too), which gives it that ultra smooth blend of concave and slight nosekick. Being made of such a light, tough "wood" as Bamboo, and then having glass layers top/bottom makes this a solid feeling,damp (vibration resistant), but just (barely) pumpable board that's ideal for bombing fast. Having a kicked nose and ample tail also means it's versatile as a cruiser, maybe ditch/pool board as well.
I like the feel of these two boards in their concaves, as they're very secure feeling without being intrusive, and also, they convey by feel just where your feet are placed on them. Definately Not your average Popsicle-stick decks.
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thanks!
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On 12/17/2004 tom in toronto
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
Wow, Thanks!
that's great to get such a lot of info like this. Sales guys are sometimes just pushing their high-profit-margin items regardless of ... Well, anyway, I greatly appreciate the advice!
Cheers
cdn sk8r
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Flexy stuff
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On 12/17/2004 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
Tom, Glass usually is better for controlled flex, and providing some rebound in the flex. Metals from the Aluminium family tend to be good stiffeners and dampeners, But when shaped with a mild curve (or concave) can have a good deal of 'snap' due to memory. Carbon Fiber is making itself known now as a key material because it has high strength, snap, low weight, can act as a dampener, and is moldable to multi-curved surfaces, but it won't replace fiberglass just yet. Concave in most any material will act as a stiffener, and can cancel out camber/rocker. Concave also almost always (well,when used with sheet material,such as wood ply,pre-pressed glass,aluminium) creates a weak/dead spot where the concave ends. In fact, the only boards I own that have curvatures that don't create such a spot would be my Turner Fullnoses and my Santa Cruz Airtech, which are foamcore with glass overlayed.
Drop-throughs are a Speedboard design thing, made to lower the pivot center closer to the axles for better stability. They can affect pumping greatly, not so much by changing the truck's turning ability (though it's tough to wedge dropped trucks), but because the lowered height can cause a flexible deck to bottom out. And, no, they're not on Slalom boards (which do flex) but on DH/Speedboard types, which tend to be made stiffer and even vibration resistant to better deal with higher speeds.
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P.S.
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On 12/17/2004 cdn sk8r
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
Oh, one other thing...
I've seen photos of drop-thru's on slalom decks. Doesn't a drop-thru reduce ease of turning? Or is this a trade-off for high-speed stability?
tom in toronto
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flexboards
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On 12/17/2004 tom in toronto
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
PSR,
Thanks for your info.
Been pumping fairly well on a homemade replica of a
Gordini R8-style-and-size-deck. I like the shape and size, the camber seems good, but I think I'd like concave as well. Will this reduce the flexibility or the snap too much if I make my next one w a mild concave?
Also, is titanal anyway better than fiberglass for flex and snap?
Cheers,
Canadian skater
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