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| Q&A: Slalom Pro Mike Maysey (2489 Posts)
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Stuff like no other
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On 1/7/2005
WT
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
Mike,
Tell Evans that Chicken delivered and everything's in the house. I'm an Ick maniac!
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Offsets
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On 1/7/2005
mike maysey
wrote in from
United States
(67.225.nnn.nnn)
Hello all...it's been a while. Personally, I use RT-S offsets for GS. I find the slower turning truck better in the rear. I also dewedge it to slow it even more. I tend to wedge the front of my boards a lot to make most of my turning come from the front. I've never ridden an RT-X offset, but frankly, I've not been interested in them because what I've been riding works so well.
I've also been experimenting with Tracker Mid offsets that Steve Evans has and currently have two new ones sitting in Chicken's garage waiting for my pick up. Tracker Mids bolt nicely onto the RT-S baseplates. I'll be riding them in HS and TS as they are narrower than the stock RT-S so they work better for faster turns required in most HS and TS courses. I dewedge them as well. I find that if the rear is flat, it steers too much and feels as though the rear of my board is trying to come around on me...not a good feeling when powering through a course at high speed. I'm going to pair the Tracker Mid offsets with a couple cut down Geezer RT-X's from the front on my HS and TS boards. On that note, on my GS board, I use an RT-S base with a Tracker Full Track hanger.
As for the term, 'nervous' camber...I've never heard that one. Anyone, anyone?
Keep trying different stuff...sore today. Went for a skate yesterday in between the rain. It's storming in SoCal today and apparently for the next few days. Bummer because Gorman wants to practice at JPL tomorrow...hopefully the rain will give us a break!! Cross your fingers!!
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Offset Trackers for Bill Boothby
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On 1/6/2005 Pauliwog
wrote in from
United States
(64.5.nnn.nnn)
Offsetting any truck slows the action some and increases traction by moving the axle line closer to intersecting the lines of the pivot and kingpin, that's one theory anyways and it goes more indepth than that. Most riders prefer an offset RT-X because an offset RT-S become much slower reacting. In G/S this feels good, but for G/S and everythihg tighter, an Offset RT-X is more fine-tunable to be really slow turning or much tighter depending on how much you leave it flat or neg wedge it. I had an RT-S offset Chicken did for me and it worked great for G/S and big hybrid and was pretty grippy. Personally,I neg wedge my rear trucks a little if it's a rebuilt offset or TTC or SplitFire and neg wedge them more if it's a standard(non offset) hanger RT-S 8mm axle(mostly T/S application). The only truck I'm finding I like flat in the rear is the Seismic 100mm MMW'd 8mm with the 30 degree baseplate. Everyone's different and there's not neccessarily one single "right" way to run it. What's most important is that you get a tighter and less reactive back truck and a much more reactive looser front truck for 2 reasons-Traction and Stability. Perfectly straight 8mm-ish axles are also a large traction improvement-noticable and worth the price. Good Luck -Paul
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to WT re: slalom terms
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On 1/5/2005 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(142.20.nnn.nnn)
WT...Thanks for those answers. I never see any randals in slalom photos...not quick enough? One More Q...What does "nervous" camber mean?
Skate On,
Tom T
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Offset RT-X vs. Offset RT-S
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On 1/4/2005
Bill Boothby
wrote in from
United States
(66.214.nnn.nnn)
Can anyone shed some light on the performance differences between these trucks?
What can one expect from dewedging vs running flat?
How steeply should one dewedge?
Is there a preference, Offset RT-X or Offset RT-S ?
...thanks BB
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Slalom Practice Jan 8, 9am Bernal San Jose
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On 12/31/2004
Mark Johnson
wrote in from
United States
(68.124.nnn.nnn)
Slalom Practice Jan 8, 9am Bernal San Jose
Weather is perfect as long as it doesn’t rain, nice cool crisp mornings are not bad, the sun is sinning and the temp is perfect for practice. You will be wishing for this type of weather when spring and summer comes.
Hopefully we will be setting up an 80 cone + course for the serious riders and a mellow GS for the newbie’s that show up. This is a great hill for new riders.
There will be all type of Slalom and long board there to try out. Come out and see what the boys that race ride and get some good advise on what to buy and what not to buy, get answers to all your sk8 questions and more!
One more note I will bring some butt boards to try out, Afterwards a few of us might go do some butt boarding, down hilling on some local hills and if there is enough interest from downhiller’s we might make a run for Dina sore point.
Please let me know if you plan on showing up thanks
Contact me at 408 287 1843 if I don’t answer leave a message any time and I will call you back soon, this is my business phone #
Or email me at sjsk8@sbcglobal.net
Happy new years and best regards to all from:
Mark Johnson
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Slalom Terms
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On 12/31/2004
WT
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
RT-X: I guess it means the front truck is "extreme."
RT-S: The back truck is "stable." (I'm just guessing. I've never seen it accurately described.)
MMW: Monkeywrench Machine Works. Eric Walgren ("Geezer-X") has a machine shop in Maryland and does skateboard, motorcycle and auto retooling. He's also a star of major low-rated cable television shows.
Offset Truck: It's a little weird. Traditional skateboard trucks have the axle "behind" the kingpin. For slalom skateboarding, though, the axle is "offset" forward so the axle is now inline with the kingpin. So an "offset" truck is actually straight whereas a standard truck has the axle offset from the kingpin. Isn't that enlightening?
Offsetting is accomplished in two ways: building an axle housing that wraps around the kingpin (3DM TTC's, Asphalt Playground's Splitfire and the Airflow truck do this.) Another way is to make "yokes" that extend the wheel center back to line up with the kingpin (The Tracker Offset, Pocket Pistol Indy Offset and Radikal Dragon Tail do this.)
Offsetting is done to alter the turning radius of the truck in order to improve rear traction. Oh, and it's pretty much a given that all offset configurations involve SPLITTING THE AXLE to get around the kingpin. So insteat of a solid shaft running the length of the wheel track, you have two independent shafts on each side of the truck. This can make it easier to understand some of the complications associated with this kind of truck. Getting those axles lined up and staying in one place is a constant source of enjoyment for slalom racers everywhere.
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slalom illiteracy
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On 12/31/2004 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(142.20.nnn.nnn)
Really appreciate all those replies, guys. Thanks. A few questions: What do these abbreviations mean? RT-X, RT-S, MMW'd, and what exactly is offset about an offset? Sorry about the entry-level Q&A, but no one round here seems to be into it.
Cheers, and Happy New Year
Toronto's Only Slalom Fan
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truck recomendation corrections...
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On 12/30/2004 wax
wrote in from
United States
(24.9.nnn.nnn)
The split fires are not limited to use in RTX bases, I am running some in Indy hangars from some 159's and also 101's
and they work great (the trucks) with the abec 11 slippins
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I meant to say "Pauliwogs Correction", not "Corretion"
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On 12/29/2004 P
wrote in from
United States
(64.5.nnn.nnn)
Nothing more to add. Not yet.
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Pauliwogs Corretion
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On 12/29/2004 PWog
wrote in from
United States
(64.5.nnn.nnn)
Trucks: the Grippins will not work with the 8mm MMW'd 100mm wide hanger(that's the addition/correction) Seismic, they work great with the 130mm 8mm MMW'd Seismic.-P
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My 2 Cents for the newbies who want to save $$$
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On 12/29/2004 Pauliwog
wrote in from
United States
(64.5.nnn.nnn)
Here's my recommedations:
DECK- Wood, buy a longboard that's flat(no rocker, no camber, and no or very little concave, cut it down so you can drill it for multiple wheelbases ranging from 18" to 23" inner to inner truck mounting holes.This will serve you well as your "one gun" until you figure out what you like or don't like. It's simple and easy to keep track of variables. As you slalom more you will learn slalom has a gazillion variables in equipment. Keep it 8 to 9 inches wide at the front foot area and narrowed in the tail so that with your rear foot at whatever angle you ride, your toes and heel barely hang off the edges-you want enough width for leverage but edges to feel. Use a Stanley brand Sureform plane with the 10" long blade with the rounded surface to put in wheel wells(most hardware stores carry them),put wheelwells in for ALL the wb's-you'll be glad you did. If you're up to 190 lbs 8 ply will probably be good, if you're heavier then go for the 9-12 ply decks. Luca Giammarco rode an oak 1970's era "one-gun" at Morro Bay last year, kicked ass on it and opened my eyes as far as simplicity can go. OR- get something already made(as separate items or as a complete) from Bahne or PocketPistol, they'll be good investments but possibly not as variable to experiment with a wide range of wb's.
TRUCKS-If you're really cheap, go with stock Indy 101's if you can find them or,(my preference)go with a Tracker 105mm RT-X in front and an RT-S in back. Put a STEEP wedge riser under both, neg wedging the back, pos wedging the front (both risers will be pointing small end forward, thick end backward). If you have a little more money try a 30 degree baseplate Seismic 100/105mm( -whatever it is) in back and run it flat or with very little neg wedging. If you have a bit more leeway in the wallet, get the 8mm axle converted RT-X/RT-S combination(one of my longtime favorites I still use from time to time) from www.asphaltplayground.com or www.monkeywrenchmachineworks.com or for the back end get an 8mm MMW'd Seismic 100mm 30 degree baseplate truck direct from Seismic(I don't remember their website).
I do have to say, I like the AP SplitFire 107mm in back a LOT, but that and the 8mm Seismic sorta blows the cheap paradigm (but not too much).
WHEELS-Manx, 3DM Avalons, Abec 11 Grippins- I like and ride all of them, I choose by the course, pavement, temparature, what species of bird that just flew over me, etc. All will work, don't worry about it too much. Just get 80ish durometer all around or 80A-ish for the back and 85-ish for the front, either combination will serve you well in almost all situations. NOTE-Grippins will NOT work with 8mm MMW'd Seismic.
BEARINGS-I'd go with sealed (not shielded) so you don't have to clean them so often and you won't be fast enough in the beginning to worry about winning a race anyway (but the sealed Oust's are definately a fast very race worthy bearing). This will allow more time on your board and dinking around with wheelbases and figuring out the body movements specific to tight, Vs hybrid,Vs giant courses. Use good spacers.
BUSHINGS- If you can get Tracker Stims, get 'em, if not, KHIRO has FULL height top and bottom bushings for slalom and longboarding(coned with an insert, and cylindrical shapes), I like them a lot. Otherwise there's the Bones Hardcore's, DohDoh's and stock Tracker bushings.Avoid Tracker Superballs or those orange stock Indy turn-stoppers. Go soft and loose so your trucks turn. That's the name of the game, unless you're PAT CHEWNING-I don't know how he makes his trucks turn-Voodoo I guess.
As you get more experience under your belt, and money in your wallet, you'll then figure out what expensive custom made stuff you'll want and not waste as much money hopefully as I did on a LOT of decks.
Well, that was more of a dissertation than I originally intended. In the words of Iocovelli: "You got into slalom, huh? Well, I'm sorry to hear that bro". Welcome to the club and the obsession. Good luck -Paul Howard
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Slalom Equipment Costs
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On 12/27/2004
Wesley Tucker
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
No need to leave Albert hangin'. The prices are:
Foam-core Decks. Most of these boards are custom made to order. Although the shape is pretty consistent, the board is configured to match YOUR FLEX PREFERENCE with YOUR WEIGHT. A MEDIUM FLEX board for a guy weighing 225 is very stiff for a guy weighing 155. So there's no way to accurately mass produce these boards. They are matched to the rider during lay up:
Ick Stick: $225.00
Roe: $235.00
Pocket Pistol: $195.00
Turner SummerSki: @$300.00 (Price depends on the Euro and not including international shipping.)
Wood/glas/composite decks:
FibreFlex: Priced around $90 depending on model
Bahne Black Hill: I think it's less than the FF, don't know the price of the deck only. I've only seen completes with price tags.
Roe Performance series $95-$115.00
Pocket Pistol Got Wood series (Chicken has several of these in different models) $60-$75.00
Seismic/3dm Banshee: $159.00
Turner Blackbird and Aurora: Horrendously expensive with the dollar against the Euro.
Indianna, Wefunkt and Airflow are also making racing boards in Europe, but I have a sneaking suspicion Albert isn't going there for his first racing board?
Trucks:
Offset Indy (101 or 88) from Chicken: $85.00 (if you can get them . . . ahem.)
Offet Trackers: $140.00
Radikal front: $175.00
Radikal Offset back: $175.00 (I think. This might be more?)
Tracker RS: $15.00
Tracker RT: $15.00
Indys: Anywhere from $15 to $20, depending on the vendor.
Seismic Aluminum Series: $30.00
Splitfire Truck: $85.00 (you supply the Tracker baseplate.)
Airflow: Beats me. It's in Euros
Wheels:
All about the same between $5 and $10 a piece. Different sizes (Cambrias, Avalons, Avilas, Grippins, Stingers, Flywheels, Manxs, Cadillacs) and different durometers. (Most slalom wheels are between 78 and 90 duro, whereas I believe most streetstyle wheels START at 90 duro.)
Bearings:
A bearing is a bearing. Some are steel, some are ceramic, some are shielded and some are sealed. The Biltins have their own spacer. The prices range from $5 for a set of 8 to whatever. If you're already longboarding, you know bearings.
These prices are subject to change because I didn't look all of them up and was quoting most from memory. Some are probably wrong and I really don't care. Post a correction. But at least Albert now knows he's looking at HUNDREDS to buy a decent racing board instead of thousands or a few tens.
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Albert
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On 12/27/2004
mike maysey
wrote in from
United States
(64.208.nnn.nnn)
"I want to get involved in slalmon racing."
Right on and welcome to the fold.
"I have been skating for 14 years and longboarding for 6 or 7 months. I practice everday setting up cones and pumping through then one way then back again. I recently purchased a sector 9 platinum series 38in longboard my question is I was wondering if this board is ok for slalmon racing. It's a fiberglass, carbon trilam maple board all sandwitched together and it supports up to 200lbs."
This board will be great to start you in slalom. However, if stood on those boards before and my recollection is they are quite flexy. For slalom there certainly are times when a flexy board will help, however I think a stiffer board will be in your future. At your weight, you should probably consider getting a custom board of some kind. Ick, Pocket Pistols and Roe come to mind as custom board builders. Again, as I mentioned below, I'd highly recommend Rick Ick. He'll build your board with his hands that have built boards for the likes of Steve Evans, Charlie Ransom, Kenny Mollica, Dave Hackett and myself just to name a few.
"by slalmon rules and regulations is this board qualified if I wanted to race?"
You certainly could race this board. I would venture to guess you will want to get onto something different soon. Something stiffer with some different trucks and grippier wheels.
Hope this helps...it's always fun to help the newbies...it wasn't that long ago I was one myself.
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tom t
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On 12/27/2004
mike maysey
wrote in from
United States
(64.208.nnn.nnn)
If money weren't an issue, what might be a good choice for me?
I would say, look into a custom board...wait, wait. Maybe not yet. Consider a board from a maker that can build a board to suit you. Personally, I ride Ick Sticks becuase I can tell Rick what I want in terms of shape, flex, wheelbase, etc and he builds it. When you talk to Rick, he's the guy who will have his hands in the foam, glass and resin. That's the deck...
Trucks, I'd probably go with a Radikal in the front, with the offset of your choice for the rear. I prefer Tracker Mid's offset, but many folks like the Chicken Indy 101 offset...or maybe even go for the Radikal front and rear...since I'm spending your money!!
Bearings...go with something fast....I ride Pleasure Tool Ceramics most often and love them.
Wheels...well, I'd go for some Manx's myself. I just rode some for the first time at JPL a few weeks ago and pulled down a second place. Until that point I'd ridden 3dM and had good luck. Most folks ride either 3dM or Manx. Some prefer Abec 11...it's really a crapshoot. Hopefully you have some buddies you can skate with in your area giving you the opportunity to try some different set ups to get you feeling what you like and what you don't.
As for your question on wheelbases...that's not dependant on your size, it's all about what type of course you ride. For me, in Tight slalom I ride anywhere from 17"-19" (usually 18") inner hole to inner hole which usually works for 5.5-7' cone spacing. For hybrid slalom, I ride 20"-21" (usually 21") 7-10' spacing and for GS I ride 23"-24" 10'+ (usually 24").
These are simply my preferences for the disciplines of slalom, you might get slightly different measurements from different riders but I bet they'll be within an inch.
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Faster than Fish
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On 12/26/2004 Slalmon racer
wrote in from
United States
(130.13.nnn.nnn)
Those buggers aren't so quick outta the water.
;-)
All in good fun, Albert! 38" is a bit long to be able to SLALOM through 6" cones, much less 5.5" cones on a fast hill. Like MM said, go with something that TURNS. The deck shbe ~28-33" long and stiff enough to give you confidence if you ever had to "really" push it. Truck & Wheel combination either just under or just beyond the maximum width of the deck.
Then RIDE it. Ride everything. Experiment with different wedges, bushings, wheels, wheelbases...even different grip tape! MM is a great source for information and further honing your craft, but even he will tell you that as much as some things are consistent among the top riders/racers, other things are a matter of preferrence and style.
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I could use some help
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On 12/25/2004
Albert
wrote in from
United States
(4.247.nnn.nnn)
I want to get involved in slalmon racing. I have been skating for 14 years and longboarding for 6 or 7 months. I practice everday setting up cones and pumping through then one way then back again. I recently purchased a sector 9 platinum series 38in longboard my question is I was wondering if this board is ok for slalmon racing. It's a fiberglass, carbon trilam maple board all sandwitched together and it supports up to 200lbs.
by slalmon rules and regulations is this board qualified if I wanted to race?
thanks
Happy Holidays
& Merry Christmas
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Mike M
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On 12/23/2004 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
Thanks, Mike. Hope this 101 discussion isn't too boring, but no one I know skates anything but popsicle decks. One point to clarify... I don't have a Flexdex. I meant that I ride a springy longboard (homemade - my attempt to emulate an Insect Dragonfly). I use RII 180's w yellow bushings and 70mm 78A Grippins. I get the impression seismics, radikals, and 3dm's are big...you mention indy 101's... If money weren't an issue, what might be a good choice for me? Do you recommend a cambered board or is flat better? What wheelbases are most guys my size riding (6'1",210lbs). Thanks for the Q&A. If there's a site that I can find out the rules and regulations for the various slalom disciplines, that'd be great to know, too. Cheers! and a very Merry Christmas one and all!
vacuum-packed canuck
P.S. It's snowing like hell here.
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nORcAL Trip
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On 12/22/2004
mike maysey
wrote in from
United States
(64.208.nnn.nnn)
Probably be heading that way early Feb for some fun in the ...
SSS is inviting, even now. Got some killer surf with Billy Wahl on Saturday. Glassy, head high and WARM. Did I mention WARM? Thought so.
Happy Hollydays
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HoHoHo
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On 12/22/2004
sully
wrote in from
United States
(209.172.nnn.nnn)
Trackers?! just jokeing. Have a nice holiday, skate lots beacuse we cali people can. Coming up to norcal? Invite still stands if you do; tunnel, toranado with lots of tony (aka rope).
send my regards to sss,
sully
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new guy
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On 12/22/2004
mike maysey
wrote in from
United States
(64.208.nnn.nnn)
Sup Tom, Thanks for the question. Funny you mention Flexdex, I rode one of those for a while myself. Very, very heavy board!!! Alright, if I were you, I'd try to hook up with some slalomers and try their gear. However, they may have their gear dialed in for a someone of a different weight than you. Anyway, I would look into an economical type board. Something wood, with some Trackers and some good wheels. I know Chicken at Pocket Pistols has some completes that are solid sticks. I also know that Bahne has some good completes that will get you started with a board that will work. When you are first riding your new slalom board, I would loosen the trucks kind of a lot. You want to be able to turn, and tight trucks will make slalom frustrating at first. When I first started, I had a Fluid Stinger with Randall's on it. I switched the Randall's out for some Indy 101's and then changed the bushings to a softer material. You see, the stock ones are uberhard, I mean almost rock hard. I got rid of them for some softer one's, I think they were Bones Hardcores, and loosened my trucks. I also would be sure to start out on a soft wheel. The softer wheels, in the 75-80a durameter range should work well, will allow you gain confidence in turns. As you get better you will be able to probably to go a harder wheel. Personally, I weigh 160-180, depending on the season...and I generally ride 80a's in the rear and 84a's in the front.
Something else to keep in mind and this is something I think a lot of people over look is learning to fall properly. If you skate transition, they you already know, but you need to know how to knee slide. If you don't you run the risk of really hurting yourself by trying to run it out if you come off. Don O'shei broke his shin bone a couple years ago trying to run as fast as he was skating when he came off. He blew through that bone like it was nothing. On another note, I was blazing a run in the TS at La Costa this year. I ran through the finish line and my board got a slight wob. It started to go the opposite way my body was heading. I decided to just let it go and go to my knees. I did take a step of two before realizing I couldn't run as fast as I was travelling so I slide on my knees. I think I did about a 50' knee slide, stood up, chased my board down and went for another run.
Hope this helps. If you still have questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Slalom ON!
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new guy
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On 12/21/2004 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
Hey mike...new guy here lookin for the 101 on where to start boardwise and otherwise in slalom. I'm 210lbs, currently carving hard on a 27.5" WB flexdeck. Any advice? Appreciated!
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Flexy Vs Stiff
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On 12/20/2004 Pauliwog
wrote in from
United States
(67.171.nnn.nnn)
Here's my qualifying statement: I definately like a little (not a whole lot) more flex for rough pavement. My flexy Roe wood core stretched Bullet and flexy PP Mollica feel really good on rougher pavement, but when on really nice slightly textured and smooth cement like the riverfront walkway where I practice I'm not that hot about either of them, in fact, at first the PP Mollica when tested there seemed too flexy and was leaning toward being a "dud"(not quite, but close) but it was like MAGIC under my feet at Morro Bay. Same Thing with the Roe stretched Bullet. In contrast, My Roe Unlimited and PP Chickenwing are a "good" stiff(for my weight) flex and feel REALLY good on a smooth surface and I can power a lot of pump out of them.
As far as materials, something I thought about is that accoustic musical instruments are made out of wood, often maple, and occassionally out of synthetic resin/epoxy composite materials (Ovation brand guitars) for reasons of vibration transmission rather than dampening. Granted a PP maple veneer top probably attenuates(dampens) vibration more than a fibreglass topped Roe, Ick, or Turner, but if they're stiff they chatter, if they're flexy they don't as much. One thing is for sure, I've never seen anyone make an accoustic instrument sound box(the big part of a violin or accoustic guitar) out of any kind of foam or low density foam-like woods like balsa, and I doubt if cottonwood, aspen, or most birches transmit vibration as well as other harder woods. Another thing about the PP wood top is that it might have more compression elasticity compared to other fibreglass materials. One thing I'm noticing though more than anything is Dialed-In is dialed-in as far as wheelbase, width, flex, camber and Not-Dialed-in is just not-dialed-in which is seeming to outweigh everything else. Later-Paul
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Ruff and Rugged Roads
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On 12/20/2004
mike maysey
wrote in from
United States
(64.208.nnn.nnn)
Interesting point about the flex of the board relative to the surface. I wonder if the snowboarder in Mollica influencing his board stiffness pick?? I prefer fairly stiff boards. I've ridden flexier boards but I've been feeling like the flexier board controls me at times more than the stiff board.
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Rough Roads Foam Vs Wood
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On 12/17/2004 Same Guy
wrote in from
United States
(64.5.nnn.nnn)
The thing I'm noticing is definately what Kenny told me at Hood and really sunk in only at Morro Bay: most people are riding boards too stiff at the major level races and their notoriously suboptimal pavement textures, and a flexier deck works better for that. I now think flexier is better, especially after using a flexy PP Mollica at Morro on Sat and Sunday. Interesting that you feel more chatter absorbtion with foam cores, I've heard others say the same thing to back you up, and I've also heard from others that they felt wood was better to absorb chatter.-Paul
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