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| Q&A: Slalom Pro Mike Maysey (2489 Posts)
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traction
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On 4/4/2003
hg
wrote in from
(208.14.nnn.nnn)
Urethane is actually quite absorbant, and the greater heat may have caused the wheels to aborb more dust and road junk as the day went along, effectively reducing grip. Also, because you have to exert more force to steer the wheels, a portion of the force is downward, but a portion is sideways, and this serves to reduce traction. I suspect the larger board will make a difference. Also, as has been noted here before, cleaning the wheels during the course of the day may help as well.
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Avilas
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On 4/4/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(63.11.nnn.nnn)
HG,
It was simply the fact that I hadn't had enough time on those wheels to know how to set up my board with them and make them work as well as Avalons.
It's interesting to note...that the Avilas hooked up pretty wheel early in the day, when the surface was still cool. As the day got warmer, the surface got hot and that's when the wheels would no longer stay stuck. Maybe it I had some softer ones to stick on it would have been a different story. I know Sherman was riding the 76's as was Mike Gorman. Neither one of those guys slid a wheels the entire time they raced...or so they claimed.
I was watching a stock car race the other day and they were mentioning that in qualifying the weather was cool so the track was more grippy, on the day of the race it was different. Temperatures had climbed to something like 15-20 degrees warmer than they had been in quals. All the drivers interveiwed were complaining of not enough traction. It's weird because, I always thought a hot surface was MORE grippy than a cool one...I found out the opposite! I guess there's a range in there somewhere where you'll get optimal performance out of a softer wheel or harder wheel.
At Morro Bay I rode soft wheels...80's and ran pretty fast. Morro Bay was a cool overcast day, if memory serves. At Avila, I ran 80's in back and 78's in front...that was a great setup!! I didn't slide around those crazy offsets at the top of the course and was able to carry speed through the bottom of the course. I don't remember what the weather was like at Avila, but I bet the surface was not HOT.
That's an interesting point you make about the board I was riding. I think it was in fact too narrow I think for me to be able to exert the kind of force I needed to exert on them to keep them contacted with the road. I was riding a GS/Hybrid...the one I rode at the Presidio last year. I know the tail was WAY too narrow for me to get the leverage I needed over the tail. I had to have my foot way back with the ball of my foot over the rear truck bolt cluster, instead of just having my heel over the front two bolts on my back truck like I usually do.
I haven't given up on them though, I'd like to try some 76's and 80's on a new 34"x9" deck I just ordered from Vince. It should look sorta kinda like a longer and slightly wider in the (diamond) tail FatBoy.
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some quick calculations
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On 4/4/2003
hg
wrote in from
(208.14.nnn.nnn)
With Avalons at 68mm/150gm vs Avilas at 75mm/250gm, kinetic energy = 1/2 * mass * radius (squared) * angular velocity (squared). So at a given rotational speed, the kinetic energy of the Avila is double that of the Avalon, meaning that it takes twice as much torque to change the direction of the Avilas as the Avalons at the same speed. Because the rotational energy increases with the square of the velocity, it takes 4 times as much torque to turn the Avilas at 20mph as it does at 10mph, or 8 times the torque to turn Avilas at 20mph as it takes to turn Avalons at 10mph. With a wider and/or longer board, you've essentially extended the lever arm which gives you the additional torque you need to overcome a portion of these forces.
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blowouts
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On 4/4/2003
hg
wrote in from
(208.14.nnn.nnn)
Mike - Sorry I didn't stick around for Sunday at Elsinore, because this was only the 2nd race where Avila's had been used, and I would have liked to collect more feedback. If I understand correctly, the problem you encountered was difficulty in keeping the wheels in the course around large offsets once they were fully up-to-speed. We saw a similar thing happen with Paul Dunn at JPL where he managed to hang in the course his first run, but blew out toward the bottom on his last two runs.
I believe the issue is with the greater rotational mass of these wheels in comparison to the Avalons - it takes a LOT more leverage to overcome the gyroscopic effects of the rotation, and at speed, you may not have enough leverage on a smaller board to exert the necessary force. These wheels were actually designed for use with larger boards - 36"-42" in particular, although they felt good on a 30" board. However, even in my test runs on a 30" at Paso at my modest speeds, I got the sense of a different kind of resistant force in the turns, and I suspect that is what caused your difficulties at Elsinore.
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more tape and switch action
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On 4/4/2003 Henry J
wrote in from
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
If I could design a starting system from the ground up, it would go like this-
Both riders are on start ramps. We'll focus on one rider for now. In front of the rider (we'll call him Mike) is a start wand, just like the ones you see in ski races. Both racers are set, so Ed E starts the countdown- you hear 3 rapid beeps and a long one, just like the existing fcr system. Time starts on the 4th beep for both riders. If the wand is tripped BEFORE the 4th beep, a loud ugly noise would emit from the speakers telling you that you false started. This way you can get a sweet pull off of the ramp, and not worryb about merry-go-rounding the gate.
Now, for single lane racing, you could use he same system for just one person.
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Tape Switches and Wands
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On 4/4/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(63.14.nnn.nnn)
Wesley, neither notify of false starts...however a tape switch cannot miss unless you don't roll over it. Wands need to be bashed...and nobody, I mean nobody has the 'muscle' to push open those gate doors. The magnets that hold them shut do so with some huge force that not even Hackett could break.
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SC Hills
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On 4/4/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(63.14.nnn.nnn)
Miko, email me direct...about this weekend.
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Blow out
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On 4/4/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(63.14.nnn.nnn)
John, when I blow out of a course like I did on my last run at Elsinore...there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. On that particular run, I plowed something like 4 or 5 cones trying to regain my line. I will hang in the course as long as I can but in that case I had to pull out because I was afraid for my safety since I was straightening my line so much by plowing those cones.
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Avilas
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On 4/4/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(63.14.nnn.nnn)
Yeah David, I'm gonna save my Avilas for my speedboard...maybe I'll get some more at some point and cut them down, but for now...I'm gonna stick to Avalons.
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Soft wheels
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On 4/4/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(63.14.nnn.nnn)
I've never felt that 75-78 were too soft. I've ridden 75-78 and haven't experienced the slither you mention. They just skate differently than harder wheels...to me anyway.
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sol 16
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On 4/4/2003 ad
wrote in from
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any body know if the mbs sol 16 has any non aluminium or stainless steel parts i was thinking of getting one to use on the beach with a kite but need somthing that wont rust.
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Wand starts vs. tape switches
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On 4/3/2003 Wesley Tucker
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Someone asked earlier this week the difference between a wand start and a tape switch. I know that currently the tape switch arrangement CANNOT register a false start. (ALthough I do understand TrakMate is either working on or has accomplished getting over this hurtle.)
Do the wands behave differently than the tape switches and record and announce in some way a false start? I know with the gates a false start is pretty much impossible, unless you have the muscle to push your way through the door.
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Pasoed out wearing only his Robles...
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On 4/3/2003
Miko
wrote in from
(66.81.nnn.nnn)
Yeah it's late and I'm tired, but stoked... I have the big GO on racing with you all at Paso!!! Can't wait...
Boy Mike... after your slippery Avila story, I'm staying on Avalons for now as well. Sorry that qual placement didn't pan out. Paso should be another story!
Are you riding anywhere sunday? Want to come down to S.C. and try a couple little experiments with pass-thru-gates on some cool fast hills? Maybe do a combo slalom-carve tour of my top-secret S.C. hills?
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coffee on race day?
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On 4/2/2003
john airey
wrote in from
(63.198.nnn.nnn)
agent-orange, fast is not the same as sticky, right?
hamm, maybe too much coffee?
I find if I drink coffee on any day that has any
stressfull stuff, I am out of control and spastic.
well, more than usual anyway. adrenal glands work
well enough for me although I have a friend whose
heart would probably stop beating if his caffeine
got too diluted with blood. he drinks some coffee,
goes back to bed, when it wakes him up, he has
another couple cups...
Mike, when you got going too fast and blew out, is there
anything else you can do, like decelerate or are you
just toast? I was afraid of this on the little GGP hill,
so I spent most of my turns slowing down so that I would
make the turns up ahead. kind of lame, I know.
check arab's subject. he is busting out the wit on us,
not just the bombast. next it will be indoor 4' slalom.
will wanders never cease?
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Bury Your Heart at Wanded Knee
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On 4/2/2003
Arab
wrote in from
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Hamm-I didnt know that happened to you, I think if you miss the wand in qualifying you should beable to redo it, but not in racing. Sorry that happened.
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Wand
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On 4/2/2003
Hamm
wrote in from
(63.175.nnn.nnn)
Mike,
Your 'wand' issue's were minor compared to mine. I didn't even get to race on Sat. Missed the wand 1st qual run, got pissed, overcompensated and HIT THE WAND STAND on 2nd qual run. ARGH! What a way to start my 1st FCR race. I was feeling really embarassed and humiliated and was more or less hiding untill Tiger told me that WesC. pulled a similar stunt at last years Catalina Classic in his 1st FCR race. It kinda messed with my head a little that the right start box was about 6 feet wide and the left start box was about 4 feet wide. Anyway, we live & learn, right? I learned I need to be more prepared for push starts. I also learned I need to try to not be so amped up. I think waking up @ 2am and drving 6 hours will help calm me down for Paso. I'll be too spent to be over-hyped.
Cya @ Paso, lets have beer Sat night!
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to soft?
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On 4/2/2003
david
wrote in from
(192.211.nnn.nnn)
if wheels can be to soft, then how come my 72a flashbacks are the fastest wheels i own? mayble the avilas were just made to wide.
mike, mayble you should take those 80a avilas and trim them down with that angle grinder you have to something like the width of a avalon or flashback.
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75/76 too soft
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On 4/2/2003
john airey
wrote in from
(63.113.nnn.nnn)
cool story!
maybe more area is not always more traction. I bet there is
some optimum contact patch for each durometer and
pressure(weight) that is different for top speed and top
traction.
Somebody had some of those special order
75a avalons (not avilas)
and he let me use them at GGP once. they kind of slithered
and squirmed underneath me. Too big and/or soft I think.
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Setup for Elsinore
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On 4/2/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(128.218.nnn.nnn)
John,
On Saturday I rode a GS/Hybrid with 80 Avila's. I had a Tracker RTX in front with TTC in the rear. The wind was a HUGE factor at the race. if you got blasted in the face as you ran, it would slow you to a crawl. to compensate, you could take extra hard pushes and hope you didn't blow out. i got lucky on the qualifier when I ended up in 3rd. I just ran a good race I guess and/or got lucky. I had that 3rd place time with had something like 3 cones down.
On Sunday, I rode the same board with the same short wheelbase and the same big wheels that I couldn't keep in the ground. Actually, come to think of it...the wheels worked great until I tried to dramatically change direction on them. On Saturdays course, they worked pretty well because the course didn't move very much across the fall line. On Sunday, the course was a different story. With offsets set way off the fall line, the big wheels didn't stick. Especially when the surface got hot, the wheels gave on me many times. There were big black slide marks on them from the hot tar. Early in the day, when I was practicing, I slid the big wheels out and went down. HARD. It was realy weird because in the morning, when the tarmac was cool, the 80's hooked up pretty well...as the temperatures came up, they no longer stuck anymore. Luckily when I fell it wasn't far from the start line so I wasn't going as fast as I could have been going. After the fall...I was frazzled but I got up and tried to come back. We were given 4 runs in the GS...I only made two runs. My last two runs were runs that I pushed extra hard into because I knew Chicken was up by almost a second on me. I needed to pull one out but I blew it. I was counting on the wind to blow me back and it didn't so with all that extra speed, I blew it.
Those Avila's are good wheels, just don't use the 80's in the rear unless you weigh more than me and the surface you're riding is cool. I couldn't keep them down. Maybe some of the 76's would have hooked up better, I don't know...I don't have any.
So anyway, on my third run I pushed in too hard and ended up blowing out of the course. On my fourth run, I slid those wheels AGAIN and was out of the race. I still had a pretty decent time to throw into the mix with a 30.2...but it was something like a second slower than Chicken.
Chicken rode Avalons as did many of the top guys last weekend. I'm going to go back to Avalons and save my Avilas for my downhill board.
Looking forward to Paso.
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mike what board what went right/wrong
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On 4/2/2003
john airey
wrote in from
(63.113.nnn.nnn)
mike if you are done drowning your sorrows,
what setup did you use @ elsinore? was it the right one?
what did you do right to qualify 3rd (congrats btw).
other than missing the wand, what did you do wrong?
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Tape Switch over Wand?
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On 4/2/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(128.218.nnn.nnn)
I wish I knew.....
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wand or tape switch
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On 4/1/2003
GlennS
wrote in from
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Why use a wand over a tape switch?
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wand
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On 4/1/2003 Gary
wrote in from
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John...think snow ski racing...the wand is something about shin high that you run into...it kinda opens like a door...when it opens..the clock starts in your lane. It replace a IR or Tape Switch.
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what is this wand thing?
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On 4/1/2003
john airey
wrote in from
(63.113.nnn.nnn)
mike,
what is this wand thing? it trips the timer to start
or something?
maybe bill evans will fill me in at van's pool tomorrow
but if I am wondering a lot of other people could be
too.
beer is always a good idear.
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Elsinore
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On 4/1/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(128.218.nnn.nnn)
I qualified 3rd and missed the wond on my second run against Brent Kosick...DQed, drank beer...
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