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| Q&A: Slalom Pro Mike Maysey (2489 Posts)
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Drilling extra holes...
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On 4/11/2003
Miko
wrote in from
(66.81.nnn.nnn)
All kidding aside... a wood-core board is usually fine for adding more holes, but be careful with the more exotic stuff. If there's not a solid plate or block in the truck mounting areas, it can seriously weaken a foam-core deck.
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drilling other holes
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On 4/10/2003 Dr. Ruth
wrote in from
(63.198.nnn.nnn)
Experimenting with extra holes is fun... Dr. P, get your
wife's permission first, but then go for it!
Dr. Ruth.
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Hump / position / which holes?
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On 4/10/2003
Dr P
wrote in from
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...OK, ok, Sorry!!!
but aesthetics aside, is there any reason not to have several wheelbases drilled to help discover what works best- while minimizing expense in cash and marital accord?
Will extra holes start stress fractures in my "toy", or are they too close to the trucks to matter much?
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Humpalicious...
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On 4/10/2003
Miko
wrote in from
(66.81.nnn.nnn)
So just when did all this humping start up? Break it up guys!!! (Here come the crowbar jokes... )
W-Base stuff... I've been mostly riding about 24" (ax2ax) on my ICK Carrera. My Mini is a couple inches shorter and really is a tight board. I've mostly ridden the longer w/b so I'm learning to go shorter slowly but surely. It definitely has advantages on many courses... not necessarily tight ones either.
My new ICK Retro-Flattie (picking it up at Paso!) will be 23.5" on the bolts, and probably up around 26" ax2ax. This is gonna be a wicked stable big hill board. I keep hearing from others just how well it turns for such a big ride. Can't wait to bolt it up and blast off at Paso!
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Hump free bogart
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On 4/10/2003 John Gilmour
wrote in from
(68.162.nnn.nnn)
But for parallel stance riders the hump up front is better lots of Bruce Brewington's decks feature high centered camber
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Hump-a-dump
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On 4/10/2003 Wesley Tucker
wrote in from
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"...torsionally stiffen the nose?"
Puh-leeze.
Just buy a flat board that's three inches shorter. Geez.
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humping for pumping
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On 4/10/2003 John Gilmour
wrote in from
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The bottom deck is correct. The extra nose serves to torsionally stiffen the nose for more response. Fiberglass has maximum stiffness per weight when shaped in a curve.
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Humpalicious
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On 4/10/2003 tk
wrote in from
(24.34.nnn.nnn)
I like lower hump in my boards and Maximum hump in my women.
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Wheelbase "Placement"
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On 4/10/2003
Wesley Tucker
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Another matter to consider when deciding on a shorter wheelbase is WHERE to drill the trucks. The hastily composed drawing below illustrates the differences between drilling forward and drilling farther back. As can sort of be seen, drilling FORWARD will allow for a maximum amount of "hump" from your cambered board.
Conversely, drilling farther back results in a "flatter" deck. To put it another way, if you drill your trucks to the back of the board, a goodly portion of your camber is transferred into nothing more than a droopy nose. Personally, I've never really considered the logic in paying a lot of money for a well-designed cambered board and then cancelling out most of the advantages by drilling a truck pattern that flattens the riding area.
Recently, when purchasing my new Pocket Pistol, Chicken asked me about the drill pattern. Although it is not a short wheelbase (18" inner-hole to inner hole on a 29" Stealth) I told him I wanted the truck as far forward as he could safely drill. For me, this provides maximum "hump," which is what I really look for in a board.
By the way, Chicken drilled it PERFECTLY:-)
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Reponse or thinner boards
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On 4/10/2003
Leo
wrote in from
(146.18.nnn.nnn)
Chris13:
well i weight 184 now, i used to weight around 160lbs, so my weight has increased with my skills, and maybe thats why i am havving this problem, when i get my "new" deck i will have to get used to the new one, and the response will become a normal quiver on the PSS classes.
if u check the pics posted on the other sites, (jim blanco, speedmasters site and the other slalom one) u can check some pics of me riding the deck thru 6´cones, i got used to ride with my feet at a high angle position, with the back toes touching the front heel (sendin pics to both of u mike and chris).
this minimize the feeling of having all my weight in the middle causing the back wheels to slide.
i am too new to start talking about torsional rigidity
leo
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short wheelbase...finally
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On 4/10/2003 ur13
wrote in from
(165.247.nnn.nnn)
god damn "enter" key......
lastly...the last component to your short wheelbase board is that it needs to be VERY torsionally stiff, any amount of "twist" in the deck negates your ability to effectively brake the board. You can still do it it is just ALOT harder to control.
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short wheelbases
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On 4/10/2003 ur13
wrote in from
(165.247.nnn.nnn)
...one further advantage (if you know how to control it) with short wheelbase boards is the ability to brake them more effectively in a course. Gilmour is the master of this (watch him at Cambria and La Costa 01). Braking, or controled slides, are key to really tight and technical courses, going full bore into one section but letting up not being enough for the next section requires a slight slide of the rear wheels, easy(easier) to do while maintaining control on tight wheelbase boards (sub 19.5" axle to axle being tight)....
Tight wheelbases on bigger courses also allow for a tighter more precise line (less arc more "Z" pattern) around the cones/offests and the ability to double and triple pump between gates. (Watch Paul Dunn from La Costa 02 or Avila for a good example of this...also Brent Kosik from La Costa 02 GS). Problem is is that your margin for error is WAY down and when things go bad they go REALLY bad (see Gilmour for this, when he blows out he REALLY blows out).
Bigger wheelbase board offer more stability and a larger margin for error (most of the time)....
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Did you call?
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On 4/10/2003 Smokestack
wrote in from
(217.39.nnn.nnn)
Hello?
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My first couple slalom boards...
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On 4/10/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(65.234.nnn.nnn)
...were short wheelbased boards. I had a Fluid Stinger that had something like 19" from inner hole to inner hole and then a G & S Response that had a similar wheelbase measure then a couple Comets (one long wheelbase 22" I think and another 18-19"..something like that) and now Turners with 18" and 23 1/4". I started on short wheelbases but I'm now beginning to find a place for long wheelbased boards out of necessity.
I think the short wheelbased boards did exactly what you suggest John...trained me to keep my weight centered over the little board. Also, most of my practice time in the my formitable slalom months coming on FLAT ground, I learned how to pump and generate speed while keeping centered on the shorter board. That's when I started to flipped bolt trick...barrowed from my days of street skating in the 80's. This was something some of us would do so when you ollie, your toe would catch the bolt and you'd land back on your board more often.
With the longer wheelbased boards, it's somewhat tougher to find that centered feeling I mentioned above. For me, it came not so easy due to my getting so used to the shorter wheelbase deck I find, on occasion, the longer wheelbased boards to be easier to lose traction in the front due to a weight shift which sometimes allows the front wheels to drift. At the World GS race, I rode 78's front and 80's rear...when everyone else was sliding, I was sticking. I never really have a problem unweighting wheels on shorter wheelbased boards like the fullnose, but I still prefer to ride softer wheels on it. It's only when I get my weight spread out between the widest truck setting on my Fat Boy that traction and weighting and unweighting becomes an issue.
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sliding on short wheelbases
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On 4/10/2003
john airey
wrote in from
(63.113.nnn.nnn)
short wheelbases sliding?
Mike and Dr. P,
this happened to me too. Here's what I found:
disclaimer: I am an old, no-skill, slalom novice
goofing around on very slight slopes.
If you aren't really good at centering weight fore and
aft, you can get weight off the back truck even while
keeping your back foot close to it, simply because you
get too much weight on your front foot at some point.
then you'll slide easily or worse have the back wheels
actually hop off the ground.
A long wheelbase is more forgiving in this regard since
your weight is less likely to be completely fore or
aft.
But a long wheelbase has less margin for error going
through 6' cones. You have to turn at exactly the
right time to get a long wheelbase through the cones.
If your timing is a little off you will plow cones.
Which is easier for a novice?
precise turning to get a longer WB
through cones or learning to control fore/aft weighting
on a shorter WB. Not sure, but I think it's the latter.
What do you think Mike?
Chicken is chicken, he could ride a 2x4 and look good.
Does he really get a ~23" WB through 6' cones? wow.
Mike is mike, he can go 200mph on a 18inch WB turner
and look relaxed.
They are almost too good to learn from.
us duffers are in trouble trying to pick which way to go
regarding wheelbase.
I did the thing where
I put one front inside bolt in upside down.
My foot can cover one inside bolt, but
abuts the other protruding bolt (I put
two nuts on it). This stops my
front foot getting too far forward on the deck and
also helps with consistent foot placement. Mike talked
about doing this once and that's why I tried it.
Once I did this and my front foot is in the same place
all the time, I found it easier to ride the short WB
decks I have (18.25 and 19"). The short WB decks in turn
go through tighter cones with more margin for error.
A pro could probably put those decks through 4' cones.
Also, this allows me to get my back foot near the back
truck without an overly wide stance.
I am thinking that
probably most average people are better served by learning
to ride a shorter WB cause otherwise they have to
compensate with super precise turning to get a longer
deck through the tighter cones. They are going to practice
with cones too far apart as a result and plow cones at
races with tighter cones.
Dr. P, try mike's one upside down bolt trick and concentrate
on keeping some weight on the back foot and see if it
stops the sliding... It seems to have mostly worked
for me.
Mike I need to learn to ride a hill. I signed up for this
GS in SF and it is on a hill. Holl said it might have
elements of hybrid which to me means a few tight cones,
(I am guessing 6').
I don't want to DQ by failing to get my fatboy through
the tight cones. tight cones are
cool, but it means I should ride a shorter WB
deck and also go down a steep hill. yikes.
I want another parking lot race!
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response part 2
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On 4/10/2003 ur13
wrote in from
(165.247.nnn.nnn)
whoops...damn "enter" key
As far as foor placement on the response....
It is (was) Attila's "pro model" and if you wach the way he rides you will see it is a very Euro (stacey peralta) style. Heavily angled front foot with a toe block and the rear foot is raised up on the ball of the foot, heel in the air. This creates a steering foot (front) while maintaining the ability of the rear foot to pump and or brake (go to the other slalom site and read all the discussion about this from gilmour).
So the shape works for Attila, well worked when he designed it. That style of riding takes some getting used to and I wouldn't recommend it to everyone...but guys like charlie ransom REALLY make it work (Charlie uses a slight variation on the stance).
Concentrate on keeping the ball of your front foot over or just behind the inner most mounting bolts on the front. Then focus on keeping the rear heel over the inner most mounting bolts in back. Both feet should be highly angled (around 60*) without having excessive toe/heel overhang. Watch your rear heel, make sure it isn't hanging over the back rail too much or you will actually hit your heel on the rear wheel which is NOT fun....
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Leo's response
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On 4/10/2003 ur13
wrote in from
(165.247.nnn.nnn)
Leo...the tail of the response IS narrow, it is a semi classic double cutaway sahpe...anyway...the problem you may be having with slipping the rear wheels while pumping HARD is that G&S decks (compared say to a Turner) are VERY torsionally twisty and VERY soft. This problem is tripled when one is to heavy for a G&S (the 3ply is good for 140 pounds TOPS, the 4ply is good for 180 pounds TOPS).
I am assuming that you are slipping the wheels out at low speeds and/or high speeds. At low speeds the deck is twisting so much under your feet that you are actually pushing the rear truck with your body thus slipping it. At high speeds the deck is too soft with not enough traction.
However G&S decks, mainly the response, seem to perform well in the mid range. Their softness and twisty'ness seems to work for them at moderate speeds. They just take alot to get up to speed.
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Response
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On 4/10/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(65.234.nnn.nnn)
Hey Leo, my second slalom board was a Response. I found that it was not wide enough in the back too. Something I did that helped I think was concentrating on turning my feet more forward, not parallel, but a modified surf stance with one foot in front of the other but with both heel and toe on the deck...that's really the only advice I can give for that deck because I know how narrow it is in the tail.
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G&S response kind of decks
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On 4/10/2003
Leo
wrote in from
(146.18.nnn.nnn)
Mike, have u seen the shape of the Response, very similar to the small Ick (cant rememeber the name, but its used for TS) and i think also Roe made a deck with similar characteristics.
this decks, have the wider area a little bit far from the back trucks, i keep having the probelm of slideing the back truck a little when pumping real hard. maybe its my balance or that i am too straight instead of low to lowere my CG.
what would do u suggest for this kind of decks?
Leo( a new turner deck owner :) )
Leo
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Wheelbases
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On 4/10/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(67.192.nnn.nnn)
What length boards do you use for different size courses?
Right now I only have three boards set up. The long one with the 23 1/4" inner hole to inner hole measurement works for me for anything that's 7' and above. I have two fullnoses (Vince Handmades) that are very close to 18" inner hole to inner hole. These two boards work for the cyberslalom as well as any course that is fairly tight...say 6.5-5.5'.
As the cones get closer, should my trucks get closer or just looser/turnier?
You could probably try both...but my choice is always to get on a shorter wheelbase board. I know Chicken used a huge board in the Worlds, 36" long with almost a two foot span between inner holes and he made it fit. Me, I have trouble with that kind of adaption so I simply get on a shorter board. Funny thing was, the course that day was fairly tight at the top and opened up a bit as it went along so the longer wheelbase probably carried speed better through those sections of the course but I chose to ride the board I could both accelerate quickly as well as the one that was the easiest at navigating the top section which was actually under 6' according to GBJ. I've looked at the heat sheets from that day and even though I was riding a short wheelbase board, I still had the fastest time of the day...go figure.
Also, on very short wheelbases (25yr old orig. fibreflex) I seem to slide out. How do you balance truck placement and truck geometry?
Try placing your feet like this...cover up the inner truck holes on the front truck with your toes on your front foot. Then step on the board with your back foot and make sure it lands with your heel covering the inner truck bolts of your back truck. This stance should help you keep your trucks and wheels on the ground. Also, when you are skating through the cones, don't focus on the last cone. This will cause your head to begin to fall forward as will your weight. Once your weight starts moving forward, you'll release pressure on your back truck and COULD slide the back truck out. The best remedy for this is to find a point out beyond where the last cone is and sight out to that. This will keep your body more upright and keep traction flowing to your rear truck.
Also, try using angled raisers on both your trucks. Put them both on so the big part is toward the tail, adding steering to the front and taking steering out of the back. This might help remedy the problem of the back truck over turning which can sometimes happen causing the back wheels to slip.
If you try everything I've suggested and still have trouble, let me know.
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OK, Wheelbases
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On 4/10/2003
Dr P
wrote in from
(24.90.nnn.nnn)
I've tried the Cyber-Slalom Course on a board with a 23 1/2" wheelbase (and tracker fulls) and I keep blowing out. Now I know, OF COURSE, that it can't be just because I'm old, out of shape and new to slalom - I'ts the deck, Right! ;o)
What legnth boards do you use for different size courses? As the cones get closer, should my trucks get closer or just looser/turnier? Also, on very short wheelbases (25yr old orig. fibreflex) I seem to slide out. How do you balance truck placement and truck geometry?
Thanx.
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SlalomCross
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On 4/10/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(67.192.nnn.nnn)
John, I'm riding a board with a 23 1/4" from inner hole to inner hole. I bet I could go as long as 24" for those 7' gates...I can't wait for Saturday...it's gonna be a good time.
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john airey is satan?
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On 4/9/2003 Brady
wrote in from
(66.21.nnn.nnn)
Just kidding john but you have the dubious distinction of having post #666 on this forum.
I recieved some sage advice and will be buying used decks at TG `03. Got any old slalom setups for grassroots newbies, I`ll be buying them at TG`03.
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longest wheelbase through 7' cones
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On 4/9/2003
john airey
wrote in from
(63.113.nnn.nnn)
the slalomcross event has 7' cones to start?
(I'm not doing this race, just curious about some stuff).
mike,
what is the longest wheelbase you would comfortably
use to get through 7' cones?
also, mike, WIN!
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Mr. Mike Maysey
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On 4/9/2003
Leo
wrote in from
(146.18.nnn.nnn)
This is not a question or answer post, this is another of my thanksgiving posts.
Mike Maysey donated his Turner GS/Hybrid to me so i can have an extra deck to race at The Gathering.
Mike HUGE THANKS TO YOU my friend, that was one of my dreamed boards(after the needlenose)
Now my smile its freezed in my face :)
Best wishes to you!!!!!!!
Leo
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