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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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Wheels
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On 7/24/2008 lonerider
wrote in from
United States
(64.13.nnn.nnn)
Hey Munchh... I just visited here for the first time in like 7-8 months myself. Last I heard, Peters gave the SpeedVents a thumb up for pumping here a link to his gear page I just double checked ( http://home.comcast.net/~jampet99/rides/gear01.html ). I've been pumping my Roe Mermaid LDP once in a while on my 2.5 mile way to work - haven't really been checking online as I've been wasting all my time on snowboarding forums.
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Alternatives to Pink BigZigs?
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On 7/17/2008
munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.151.nnn.nnn)
Blimey, whats going on here??
Hi all its been a while, just wondered if anyone has used speedvents for thier LDP setup?
As there seems to be a shortage on Pink Bigzigs over here, the next option is the vents, so any input would be cool as i dont want to buy anymore stuff thats not quite right, id rather order and pay international shipping on the Zigs.
Cheers.
Munchh
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and i keep going......
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On 5/10/2008 Mr. Grinch
wrote in from
United States
(71.88.nnn.nnn)
as well, i've found my carveboard to be so responsive to front foot or back foot pressures when in turns, i really notice if i've exhausted my legs and can't adequately transfer my weight as much as needed to keep gyrating the board to maintain speed. i don't mean i just notice the speed loss, i feel through my feet, calves, and thighs when speed, weight distribution, transfer, gyration, and all else doesn't fall in line. this includes minute misjudgements of elevation change for speed gain (combined with proper/improper powering during turns). the most frustrating thing is the wind. back in nor cal, this was critical. certain spots with certain winds (generally, during summer, nw flow is standard, so that made it kinda easy during that season). here, yeah, it surely plays a role, but moreso now i find some complications i didn't have to deal with out west. hell, the surfaces here are generally worse too, that makes for spot selection complications too. but oh how i love a good run where every bounce and turn is in place. where power is well put and speed carried through turns becomes more speed at the right time, or enough speed to make it through flat areas with a little well placed displacement. the feeling of my legs when they are drained of energy to keep a good run going. getting the tires right along a curb and powering a turn back into more speed. i got new tires last fall, and it was great to watch the molding line on the tires, the flashing, scrub off from riding. the stripe (i don't know why it was there, but a thin red stripe) being scrubbed off. new tires really brought the life back. heelside had become less speed generative than toeside, for sure. but new grip brought it all back. i pushed so hard last week i even fell a few times. i never fall on my carveboard. i don't mean pushing as in one foot on the board one foot on the pavement. i mean the grip occasionally was enough for my feeling of weight to surpass a correct displacement and actually bog the tires almost like bogging a rail in surfing (but in an opposite way, if that makes any sense.....hard to explain). too much pressure on the front foot, i suppose. i need to get video, but i fear even that won't show exactly what's going on. i'm not on flat land, but i'm not going downhill. i look for something like a wave face. a slanted stretch of asphalt to work across. or a bunch of slants and whatever transitions between them. it doesn't look like much, but considering the grip and angles that the rider can pitch themselves at, it all adds up. then again, to a snowboarder using a carveboard as a cross trainer, that wouldn't be much use, going down hill and practicing edge control and speed scrubbing would. but i'm going for the surf feel. endless bottom turns are only so good. eventually, you need to practice cutting back, top turns, roundhousing, pulling in, finding minute places to increase speed. this is where i find my joy out of the water. this is how i do it. i remember a rather large parking lot in novato, ca, where i used to exhaust myself before even getting to the bottom. i had learned how to go up hill, in a sense. kinda like tacking during sailing. go ten feet down hill to generate speed, and go back up eleven feet before repeating the process. i have noticed a problem in the surf, though. i get used to multiple pumps during a turn (to get as much speed out of a turn in surfing, it doesn't take as much gyration as on the carveboard, but that has to do with the mediums either form of boarding is requisite to), and find myself shorting a turn in surfing when i should have carried it out longer. but that usually goes away after a few waves. another funny thing is debris. sure, those large 8 inch tires can roll over a lot of things, but when those tires are at the edge of sliding, gripping right at the edge, even small pebbles can spoil the ride. like i said, i don't like to straighten out, keep it rail to rail, always put power down. maybe that'd by a few toeside pumps in a row, or a few heelside, or a stretch of alternations, but never just going straight and relaxing. don't get me wrong, i thing the people who do controlled slides on rubber are pushing for sure. but i've never found much actual use for sliding since there usually isn't any way to keep the speed up, which results in either riding switch, or having to put the pushfoot back on the ground. basically, i love being right on that edge of grip, where power becomes speed through a turn, and my body is going one direction, and the board is being maneuvered askew, but still to follow the path. this summer is going to be interesting.....
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might shoulda put this in freecarving, but the workout kinda eschews that
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On 5/10/2008 Mr. Grinch
wrote in from
United States
(71.88.nnn.nnn)
so, i look at things in a different way. i have flitted with the ideas of sand boarding, but since i've moved to the north east, i'm glad i never dropped a dime on it. what does that have to do with skating? well, after getting quite involved in longskates, i took up surfing when i lived in nor cal a number of years ago. since i was a skater before surfing, i had an advantage (except for the equalizer: you have to catch the wave first, or else the best legs and board in the world mean nothing). but, i remained a skater as well. i had also bought a carve board, and i'm a huge fan of what they're capable of. no matter what, i hardly see anyone (well, only via youtube these days, but that's not the point) putting them to their full potential use. "s#@!, this guy is random, he's gone from sand boarding, to sakting, to surfing, to carveboarding, and i still don't know why the hell he posted yet...." yeah, whatever. my point is hard to define quickly. i understand the adrenaline rush that comes with speed. i'm still hard pressed to go surfing up this way unless it's head high or better. so, as a cross trainer, the carveboard has helped keep my mind, balance, legs, and whatever else all in line. well, much more than not being able to ride in a manner at least similar to surfing. the riding style that i find most useful isn't going down hill. it isn't short shots at a slanted driveway. i look at pavement (and sand as a possibility, this is why i brought up sandboarding. i'll try to tie that up later, but i'll stick with wheels and fins for the moment) differently, for sure. i don't care about down hill runs. i don't actually like sliding the rubber tires, too much speed is lost and if you wanna slide rubber on a ramp, well, smaller diameter urethane is better. i look for well planned drainage. almost like a pool skater (my most favored riding when i was more into urethane wheels). i want to work across something. yeah, it takes effort. i can feel the difference in a half pound of air pressure in the tires now. i've had my carveboard for seven years or more. i should probably buy a new deck, but i'm used to the feeling and like what's going on with what i've got. i know if i'm running too high or low a pressure (as well as if the fronts are too high or low, the rears are too high or too low, and if i should bring them closer or vary them more since i run the fronts higher than the rears). if the griptape is a little worn, i feel the smallest energy transfer lost as a foot slides even a little bit. i feel the wheels bobble when i transfer power a fraction of a second too soon, but can usually compensate and keep the momentum up. keep in mind, a carveboard weighs almost 20 pounds. it is one thing to let gravity do it's job. it's another to really displace your weight and keep speed, or find speed when there isn't much elevation difference to provide actual gravity speed. i'm talking about really putting the power down. right at the edge of sliding, putting and keeping the grip of the tires right to the maximum. always on edge, never straighten out. leading with the front foot, powering from the back foot. hahahaha, a problem i've found, though, is letting my head get too carried away. thinking and feeling i'm surfing though i'm not. the problem comes when i push like i would on a surfboard and the bottom and fins would hold the turn, but on asphalt, the tires and board can't hack it and a slide isn't always the result, a botched run usually is. the oddest thing is the tire bobble. usually the rear axle. i've never looked at it happen, i'm looking at where i'm going, but i feel it happen. it's not even so much a skip but a few bounces. luckily, it usually happens after powering the rear, and transitioning from toeside to heelside when cranking hard and quick. i need to get some footage of this stuff. i've turned small parking lots (10 cars or so) into impossible runs that give jelly legs quite quickly. i need video to show what i mean. so, this is carving, pumping, kinda slalom in a way (have to get every bit of minute elevation change right, and maximize speed generation from it), certainly much soul. still, i look at sandboarding, and wonder, why don't they find those parts of dunes (i've seen pictures that spawn the thoughts) and ride across them? might not be as fast, but certainly a much much longer ride, and though it might be generally heelside or toeside, a very unique discipline and challenging riding style for sure. i guess this would all be akin to riding a one sided bank. as opposed to the halfpipe like one side then the other side style of bank/bowl riding. very surf oriented. yeah, here in connecticut, they don't know what the f#@! to think of a carveboard. most people think i'm learning how to ride a dirtboard. hell no. these carveboards are like the formula 1 of skateboards, but even that isn't quite right. i've found glory where nobody seems to be looking.
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Wheel Hype Overload
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On 5/10/2008
James
wrote in from
United States
(24.155.nnn.nnn)
Morning All,
Just inquiring into some info. for a wheel that is truly a great all around wheel for pumping. I am tired of sifting through all of the media hype from manufacturers as well as those who have bought into the hype. Aside what most will tell me--Get some Big Zigs, are there other alternatives that will really carve up semi-rough to semi-smooth terrain?
Cheers,
James
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pumping closed circuit
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On 5/8/2008
u-pumper
wrote in from
United States
(66.245.nnn.nnn)
Hello all, I haven't been here for a while, I've been getting the kids ready for college. I just posted a clip on YouTube: "Millennium Park pumping". I do mostly straight line and intermediate distances, and the occasional empty parking lot. This partially finished ice skating rink was a lot of fun, and I hope you get to do some flat laps like this.
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bennetts
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On 5/3/2008
Mark
wrote in from
United States
(67.126.nnn.nnn)
Hi, I was wondering what size bennett truck I should get for a ldp about 10 inches wide up front with a 29" wheelbase. 7.0? Also What would be a good truck for the back? Tracker RTX? Anyhow, thanks for the input and inspiration!
Cheers,
Mark
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carpe diem
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On 3/22/2008
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
riding on a sunny day with the mp3 blasting dubba-high C's and some funky grooves, just gotta grab it here in the northwest when we can!
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pump ennui
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On 3/16/2008
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
there are so many more people who really get a rush out of the speed generated by pumping and creating their own gravity on a flat plane-- so the un-cool nonsense that it is to a few naysayers, is far more satisfying to those who dig it, to the point where brash critique can just come across as lack of enlightenment, or plain and simple disinterest, and in the end who cares if its cool or not, I don't. bikers who ride tour de france aren't any less cool than those who ride cyclocross, just different worlds, so whatever. i think bank riding / carving hills is a blast, but that's just different kinds of *terrain* to pump-- pumping can be seen as its own concept.
i do agree that explaining all the mechanics of pumping step by step can be as interesting as explaining why a joke is funny and therefore why you should laugh. yet some seem to benefit from having a technical model in their head. even though the detailed yak doesn't do much for me, there are many different types of learning amongst all the crazy humans.
it would be cool if you post a VID rather than a picture though, to check out your 3-wheeler RTR in action!
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Powercarve
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On 3/16/2008
Whacko Zako
wrote in from
United States
(71.136.nnn.nnn)
I fear this forum on pumping grows tiresome, How to pump article, I browsed over however nothing here strikes me as cool, only as a way to sum up what is obvious for most. Me personally, I ride a 3 wheel RTR, a short-long with Classic indy-type high trucks on huge stacks, and prefer driveways and steeps to all this push and pump nonsense. Sure you can get a board rolling and then pump to maintain your speed, but whats cool about that? Surprise, you can pump on banks with the right set-up! I better just post some pictures, and if anyone gets this, post after me!
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Portland Pusher #9 - 100+ racers signed up!
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On 1/29/2008
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(198.144.nnn.nnn)
The Portland Pusher #9 is shaping up to be one of the largest races ever on the Ncdsa.com Contest Calendar.. Click here for link
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Pumping with Bennett Vectors
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On 1/14/2008
Rob in VA
wrote in from
United States
(138.162.nnn.nnn)
I just put the new clear red bushings in my Bennett Vector Re-issues and they are great. Can definitely pump easier than with the stock red bushings. The $8 that I spent (from tailtap) was well worth it. Although not quite as easy, I am able to pump my flat Fibreflex Teamrider reissue with the Bennetts almost as good as my neighbors Sector 9 longboard (with loads of concave) with Randalls. So, pumping is quite possible on just your basic old school set up. Couldn't hang for too long, however, before my left (front) calf was worn out. Need to work on technique I guess and am going to try putting in some wedge next to see how it does.
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wedged spud
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On 1/12/2008
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
jamal, you'd definately find a topmount easier overall to pump. but depending what trucks you've got on the spud, you might get a little better action just by adding some wedging in front and dewedging in the back.
this is the one i'm hoping to build and test out-
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low-ride pumping
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On 1/11/2008 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(64.30.nnn.nnn)
Jamal, with a drop-down, the deck swings Out laterally a bit in pumped turns, not driving downwards to the wheels,as a cambered(top-mount) deck will do, so it Looses Energy (great for controlled descents!) when you pump it 'normally'.
Try setting your rear foot further back in that 'cradle', keep the front foot on the flat. Use a bit of hip-twist as well as shoulder angulation (lifting the shoulder up on the inside of the turn). Be sure the rear truck turns less than the front (slalom set-up in steering). I hope some of this helps, but maybe the Drop-carve is what you're needing? My experience with Urban Assault is where I decided to use non-dropped deck for cruise-pumping.
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landyachtz spud and still what?
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On 1/11/2008
jamal
wrote in from
United States
(76.118.nnn.nnn)
god man,
i got the landyachtz spud and still can't as hell pump
what am i doing wrong?
do i need to work out more?
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mile and lowrider pumpers
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On 12/15/2007
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
hey jimi, if you haven't already you might check where we've tracked some cyber miles a couple years back, here. this page also shows the set ups we used at the time. 3:33 was the best mile so far, and this was done by pumping, no pushing. a better time might be had by finding a *straight* stretch and pumping it both directions to ensure it's flat -- most of the times posted were done in an 400m oval banked velodrome designed for high speed racing bikes, we skated on the flat inner "apron" most of the time -- but i think the constant turning in the oval might cut down on the overall time?
i'm currently working on a low rider pump setup using a LY EVO, which has a more efficient angle mount for the front truck. one thing we found by cranking hard on the older DH design like the one "ac" posted, pumping stresses that particular angle with some interesting results. granted, this could have been a one-time fluke, but i like the feel of the Evo angles over the DH anyway. the main issue i still have with these in general is its harder to transmit pump power into the front truck for quick acceleration and power, i still prefer a topmount for pumping efficiency. plus the wheelbase is huge on these.
what i'd really like to try is the LY Evo shape, in the shorter Spud length...this would mean creating a whole new mold.
.
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lowerd
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On 10/22/2007 ac
wrote in from
United States
(70.19.nnn.nnn)
low rider boards are really easy on your legs for pumping
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Fastest mile
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On 10/17/2007
Jimi
wrote in from
United States
(146.244.nnn.nnn)
It's been forever since I've visited this forum (pumping was just barely added last I was here). My little brother had to move from San Diego to Washington state. He loved to surf/body board and I knew he wouldn't be able to do that anymore so I gave him my flexdex (terrible for pumping) which he always loved to ride.
Somehow, I never replaced my board, just road my friends' boards. But since I rode my buddy's OP with Revenge trucks (pumped effortlessly) I've got the fever back.
I want to set up my own board and was looking through the archives for info on fast pumping setups. The info on 176', mile, half and full marathons was really cool, but I didn't see any info on what kind of setups were being used by competitors. Are there any events like these going on in San Diego?
I'd like a commuter pumper: something that would allow me to cover as much boardwalk as possible in minimal time. This includes easily maneuvering around people.
I know this topic is the elusive white rabbit, but perhaps someone knows what equipment top finishers in the mile or half marathon competitions tend to use.
I weigh 155lbs and like a flexy 40" (more or less) board, but would try anything to achieve results. Those lowered (drop thru or angled) boards seem pretty sweet too.
Cheers and thanks for any help.
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risers for bennett 71mm
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On 10/12/2007
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
I use a couple angled wedges in front and dewedge in rear with the same, one soft angled riser + one hard riser, front and back. Whats pictured is actually the soft riser + angles from the Khiro wedge kit --highly recommended!!- but basically the angle of those hard ones is the same as the standard (5/16"-9/16")
Other factors are if your bushings are really soft, allowing deeper turns, and whether your deck has some concave or not, that might give wheels a little more breathing room before chance of bite. Basically, how loose you like to run 'em. but this combo normally works for me. Here's a couple sk8kings links:
shock pads
hard riser wedges
wedge kit (setting up several boards)
@ Mr. X, would be cool to hear how that little pumper is workin out!
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how many risers to use
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On 10/11/2007 graham
wrote in from
United States
(68.45.nnn.nnn)
i want to set up my board up with some bennetts and 71mm wheels, and the front truck wedged and the back dewedged but i dont wanna get wheels bite, how many risers should i use to avoid wheel bite
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Pumper
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On 8/23/2007 Mr. X
wrote in from
United States
(69.222.nnn.nnn)
Gents,
My first board is done and I'm working on the second. You've been considerable influence. The first board is a 26" Arbor Koa mini with Tracker RT-S and X and 3DM 76a Duro Hotspots (This is board I wanted when I was a teen). The second board (parts on order but not yet received) Z-Flex 30" deck, Seismic trucks, stable rear and turny front. I purchased a couple of pairs of springs for the trucks, soom angled risers and 3dm Hot Spot 69 wheels in the 80a durometer. This should provide minimum setup for a decent pumper.
Been thinking about a longer board for next year. Kind of long distance pumper/cruiser. (LDP?) I found this one dudes site (search for pavedwave gear - I don't want to post his url) who has lots of examples of what he's used. I'm liking one setup in particular for LDP board. RoeRacing deck, Split-fire or Carver trucks and Gumballs.
Mr. X
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front truck 'snap test'
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On 8/22/2007
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Senor X - another decent pre-riding test for setting up a good, snappy pumping front truck, is this: once you've set it all up, stand the board up on its tail with the trucks facing you, and with just a couple fingers or palm, pull a wheel toward the wheelwell, like going into a hard turn, then slide your fingers away to let it snap out / release from your hand. The truck *should* snap back to center with a nice, responsive rebound -- even a little 'wiggle' as it centers again. This will also give you a good idea how prone the setup is to wheelbite.
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Rear truck steering, pumping, and 'gears'
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On 8/10/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
. X, yup, the reduced steering at the rear truck makes it drive forward Vs. steer an arc. Gilmour considers this 'a gear up' in bike parlance. You'd find that slow pumping may not work quite as well, but the thrust at a slightly higher speed would be increased, and btw, so would traction at said faster speed.
There's three other factors besides steering angle to consider in 'gearing' the pump-speed of a board.
One is truck-bushing tension (or spring tension if you use Seismics). Softer bushing kits can make for easy low-speed pumps, and stiff do better at speed. In slalom, it's best to go as stiff as you can manuver thru a given turn-arc, however for cruising/pumping, it's often finding the most comfortable RANGE of lean and thrust that's important. Hence, Stims, Radikals and Jim-Z's are great because of the greater rebound and because they can be Softer while providing some stability.
A second thing to consider is wheel traction and roll. Too sticky, and you lose speed in rolling, and you have 'pump' harder to 'cruise', yet to hard, and you've got no 'teeth' to dig in with to gain momentum during acceleration. Generally, softer duros work better for lower speeds or hilly sections (and rougher surfaces), so they 'gear down', while harder durometers will cruise along great once up to speed or with a lighter pumping motion, better once you've up-shifted a bit.
Third is board flex. Softer dosen't mean better, as there's two flexing directions; Torsional or side-to-side; and linear flex (which is why some boards have camber for more power). However, softer usually is a 'gear down', and stiffer a 'gear up'. Really, though, it's whether the board 'rebounds' when pumped down upon. That's the big factor in flex that make or breaks a pumping board.
Last thought here; I mentioned using a mellower version of the steering used in slalom set-ups. You want a more fluid turn than the quick darting turns made by slalom racers. Slalom boards are predominately forward truck steering vehichles, the very little steering for a given lean angle at the rear. You'd want 'some' of that front-end dominated steering, but not quite that quick and nervous. At the rear, you want 'some' of that thrust and directionality, but you also may want to scrub some speed, too. Manuvering around obstacles such as pedestrains, potholes, roadkill, etc is still needed, but those turns need not be lightning-quick. So, take a bit of Slalom thinking with you, but 'de-tune' your pumper to keep the fluidity and flow smooth.
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Pump Setup
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On 8/10/2007
Mr. X
wrote in from
United States
(70.236.nnn.nnn)
PSR,
I may try the JimZ bushings but before I read your post I purchased a set of Tracker Orange which is one level up from the blue that I'm using now. I'll try those first. Also, If I understand your statement correctly, you're saying that I should or could put a wedge on the front truck and a reverse wedge on the rear? Wouldn't this further reduce the turning radius of the rear truck? Is this a good characteristic of a good pump setup? I'm trying to imagine the mechanics of the board when it's being pumped. Seems to me that this would make it harder to start but faster once is does. Yes.
Mr. X
Lastely, Let me say thanks first off for all the advise. I've gone back several hundred posts and have learned a lot. (Good Forum!)
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Pumper set-up
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On 8/8/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Mr. X, get yourself the Jim-Z bushings, one set hard, one soft. Put those on the rear RTS. Mix + match soft/hard Jim-Z's. I believe you'll find that bushing (shaped very much like the old Stimulator) will give you more rebound, and thrust, in pumping when used on the rear truck. You could also try the lower/soft up front for more stability, when you find that nice multi-level parking garage that'll pass for a hill. Keep the wedging similar to, but not as aggressive as, what one would use for a Slalom set-up. -7* to -10* at the rear, and +5 to +8 up front should be a good range (depends on board wheelbase, flex, etc.) for decent pumping. Get a front-foot block (check over on Slalomskateboarder BST, Glenn has some nice ones) to increase forward thrust.
A great flat-land alternative IMHO would be a Seismic rear truck with Medium/Med-Stiff springs. The rebound from the springs has great thrust potential, but does require quick-ish feet. My Turner Hybrid with a Seismic rear on it can pump UP a 4% gradient, until I run outa breath, of course...But that's something that not-so-easy to do with Trackers only on it.
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How to Pump