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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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F-flex , pins etc
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On 1/31/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Sean, whats the longest wheelbase already drilled on that FFlex? I'd drill something like 26.5" if necessary and test out the ride *before* doing any whacks to the nose or tail and figure out where camber in the deck has best snap, and what foot placement is working best for you. In the end I like the front truck 3.5" inches from the nose, then the wheelbase 25--28" roughly from there to drill the back truck holes. As for wood chops, I defer all advice to the guys on 'Homemade Boards' forum (like Munchh) who tinker and know tons about saws, sanders and all the stuff that protects you from flying fibers. Keep the custom Roe-Insect LDP deck in mind...you can never have too many decks!
Munchh and Erin, at the time I was plowing through bolts on Randals, I always found Grade 8's to last the longest. I ordered some high tensile automotives ($5 ea.) from www.arp-bolts.com in 2004, but by the time they arrived early 2005, I had just received my CarverCX truck -- and once mounted, never went back...and never broke a front bolt since. So I'm not sure if those would shear faster or not. Keeping the bushings in good shape, I've tested flipped Grade8's on Randals up to 80+ miles of purely dedicated pumping without failure.
oh yeah... PHAT Rads are about 2.86 cm wide, 1.43 cm tall (just a rough guess) ;-) The phat Stims are just a hair wider at same height.
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Rock on Fibreflex!
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On 1/31/2006
Sean C.
wrote in from
United States
(167.206.nnn.nnn)
Woo hoo! So maybe I won't have to shovel out 100 bucks after all...
So James, you suggest a 25" - 28" wheelbase or so? How long do you think I should make the board otherwise... how much nose? Tail? etc... Since the deck isn't very wide to start with, I'll try to position my truck mounting holes so that I maximize the amount of width that I can work with... What about cutting into fibreglass? Any problems that I can encounter? I'm guessing I should wear a respirator or something and wear long sleeves so I don't end up itchy... Then as far as sanding goes, respirator and long sleeves, but is there anything to worry about as far as messing up the fibreglass?
This is cool that I can use this thing. I've often thought of letting it go, but it was my first longboard, and I keep finding uses for it. What a great deck!
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kingpinns
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On 1/31/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Erin,
see where your coming from, it was an idea a friend of mine had, a skater and works in the motorparts trade, might be worth checking them out if he can get them, has anyone else used them?
As for a LDP specific deck, i've got a few idea's i've been bouncing off Peters, i think everyone should have a go, theres loads of people building their own carving and downhill decks, would be good to get a few more 'homemade' guys onto this LDP thing?
These fat bushings, how fat??
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LDP / skumpin decks!
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On 1/31/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Sean, the Fibreflex would be perrrfect, you ought to drill and figure out your perfect wheelbase, then shave off tail and/or nose afterward. A buddy did that for me with a Landyacthz. Vlams are great. The Fibflex has a great snap to it!
Erin, I've been lovin' my LBL skumpin/LDP deck as well, I got it just as the rains hit so haven't tested it as hard as my Roe-Insect. Larry's got some magic in making a wood deck that is LIGHT -- I don't let my heavier friends even stand on it, his deck is "optimized" for my 165 lbs., but any more and you might compromise/crack it. They really are a work of art, mines a 41" shortened version of his 56" Cruiser. And not sure yet Erin but I might have an Insect signature model for skumpin/LDP as well!! Maybe its time we start up a company together?? ;-)
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Erin - Stock Pumper?
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On 1/31/2006
Sean C.
wrote in from
United States
(167.206.nnn.nnn)
Hey Erin, what board have you been using for LDP that you called "stock"? I have a 44" Fibreflex Pintail that I was thinking about cutting down to around 38" or so and adjusting the wheelbase so it would be the right length... The thing is lightweight and has a very bouncy springy flex... By shortening it I could make it stiffer lighter and a better shape (less torsional twist). Then I could redrill and have it all setup...
Anything wrong with using a vlammed board? The old fibreflexes (which i have) were supposed to have a bit of torsional twist... If I was to set that up (after modification) with RTR's and some avilas or something, would it be alright?
What you think James? I'm not sure if you're familiar with the deck at all...
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that perfect LDP deck
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On 1/31/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
If you've got a bit of patience you might just find that LBL has the perfect LDP deck. He is working on a design right now that has been on the drawing boards since the Fall. I am anxiously and excitedly awaiting the completion of his first LDP. I hope I'm not saying to much in suggesting that this board may soon be added to his regular line up of decks. Imagine that! The first builder to actually add a LDP deck to their line up! Sweet breakthrough!
I have been making-do with a stock board for my LDP and its hasn't been too much of a hardship given that the record setting wet winter has been limiting my long distance skating time. I can only imagine the thrill of getting a LBL long distance board just in time for the real skating season to begin.
Since the summer I have been dreaming of a designated pumping set up. All the boards in my quiver so far have been carefully selected and set up for specific types of skating. I have gotten a lot of pleasure out of this process. But there has been a vacant spot in the quiver for a designated LDP. Larry is my main man when it comes to building decks. He gets the flex just right for me and knows just how I need a board to ride. Then he adds his awesome finish and I've got a rolling piece of art! So this next board, I expect, will be no exception. It should be my ticket to long distance pumping. My Carver CX's and 72/77a Avilas are just waiting to jump under this deck.
So, if you feel the need for a deck with LDP in mind.....perhaps you too will be in the market for this new LongBoardLarry deck. Stay tuned my friends! Or check in with LBL, ask him how its going. I'm sure he'd be keen to hear from other LDP'ing enthusiasts.
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phat fat cushions r' us
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On 1/31/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Al, I'm glad you are liking those fatty bushings. I just got to try squeeze some onto my LDP trucks now.... The only limitation to using the fat bushing is the truck's kingpin. The stock kingpin needs to be long enough to accept the thicker bushings or have the truck needs to be a style type where the kingpin can easily be exchanged for a longer one.
I destroyed a set of Indy's a while back trying to get out the somewhat 'welded in' kingpin - sheesh what's with welding in a kingpin?! I really liked the Indy 215's for cruising but have since sold mine off because I couldn't do the kingpin swap that would allow me to run my much loved Stimulator bushings.
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no no stainless steel no go
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On 1/31/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Munchh, my understanding about stainless steel is that it is actually to 'brittle' as it can shear under pressure quite easily.
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Kingpins
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On 1/31/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Hey James,
been thinking about the kingpin breaking problem, have you ever used stainless steel?
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'Phat' bushings
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On 1/31/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
James and Erin, it might be a few posts back, but I want to thank you both for your input on the larger sized bushings. After a week or so of riding these I find myself less and less inclined to go back to the regular sized ones! What Erin noted seemed to echo my own experience...there is quite a bit more support, rebound and stability, which translates into somewhat less chance of wheelbite. I also like the smoother feel which is possibly due to an increase in overall shock absorbtion. Anyway, I think I'm a 'Phat' bushing convert already!
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Pumper/Skumper
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On 1/31/2006
Sean C.
wrote in from
United States
(167.206.nnn.nnn)
Well, the Banshee looks cool, but yes, as james pointed out, the flex and camber characteristics... I think the elongated Bullet would be very cool. 36 inches or so with a bit of extra width... What about more nose? Would you suggest adding an inch or 2 extra on the nose?
Seems like the best bet for me unless I can get a suitable board out of a trade I'm currently going through...
For wheels, the paths by me are actually quite good and I think I would be fine with a 77a 76a combo of Avilas...
As far as skogging goes, I guess I can just take components I have lying around and put them together and then experiment from there. But for skumping, I'm wanting this setup to be excellent right off the bat.
SS, if you can find out the flex and camber characteristics of the banshee, let us know.
Oh yeah, I know you guys use Avilas alot, but what about Gumballs? in 75a or so. Different feels completely in LDP?
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skump setups
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On 1/31/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
That Banshee looks like a perfect find SS, the only elements I'm not sure of are the flex and camber. What I recommended to Sean last night was asking Gareth for a custom Bullet shape, extending to 36" and widen by an inch to 9.5" (kinda matches the Banshee!) The camber on Roes are slight and perfect for skumping.
One thing I like about Sean's idea is the "76a avilas rear, 77a front" which sounds versatile. Again, depends on the terrain. I'll take a shot of my 72a's which are seriously coning but it shows how rough the Burke Gilman trail is and how those wheels have seriously saved my teeth from rattling out! ;-)
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Set ups....
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On 1/31/2006
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(71.192.nnn.nnn)
Actually guys I'm enjoying reading your equipment discussion and I think others might find the information useful as well. So I don't think you're "clogging" up the forum at all. It's completely on topic for this forum.
Erin and I asked James about a pump/push hybrid on this forum a while back.
We decided that it doesn't really work, too different. I have chosen to go with one set up for pumping and another for pushing.
As Sean noted I have a Roe Eldorado. I like it, but it is not ideal for skumping. The nose is too short and too pointy. More room is needed over the front truck.
I'm now looking at the Bahne Banshee (http://www.bahne-skateboards.com/banshee.html). It's 38.5"x9.45" and has a rounder nose and multiple front and rear trunk mounting holes to allow a lot of experimentation with truck placement. I'm still looking for any other production decks that might be superior for med to long distance pumping.
James your favorite skumping decks are all custom made, and I may eventually go that route. But of the production decks available what would you consider the best LDP deck? I think Sean and I are looking for specific deck recommendations, if you have any ideas. I'd appreciate the suggestions. Otherwise I'll probably order the Banshee today.
Thanks in advance for your help!
And if anybody else has any ideas on this, I'd love to hear them as well.
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buy all three? ;-)
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On 1/30/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Doesn't sound like you're confused...I think you just need to figure out how you're going to buy three decks! I've had both a Dorado and Dragonfly, dug 'em both, traded the Dragonfly back 'cuz Steve wanted it --it was one of his first ones made, with carbon and thinner-ply formula.
The long pool decks are nice with RTRs and CX's because its like a little surfing short board, very manouverable in pools and parks, I like my Morning Wood deck for that kinda thing, nice big platform and the kick's good for tricks. But for LDP you'll feel you want more wheelbase, I think you're on the right track... Sure we can take up more spec's offline! -jp
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Gah! Decisions, decisions...
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On 1/30/2006
Sean C.
wrote in from
United States
(167.206.nnn.nnn)
Hmmm... Well, that confused me even more! Hah! Hmmm... Any opinion on the Roe El Dorado (I think SS has one, I should ask him about it), or the Roe Bonita? Or maybe an Insect Dragonfly...
Actually, do you have any experience with the RTR decks that come complete with the trucks? They are 36" by 10" with a flat nose and a kicktail... 22" wheelbase... Hmmm... Probably not most ideal, but why is it that Carver CX/C7's and RTR's are suggested to be run on long pool boards?
Oh yeah, as for wheels, I think I'll just go with some avilas... Yes, they may be harder to push in a sprint, but I'll be happy with them for skumping...
If you want, we can continue this discussion via email, so we don't clog up the forum...
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depends on the "main" discipline
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On 1/30/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Diff rides, diff setups, I find that if I'm really going to push like crazy with both feet (skogging), I want a low CG stiff deck like my rollsrolls or Landyachtz DH, and huge (97mm-101mm) wheels. The low CG keeps you from having to "dip" down for a push.
If I'm going for a dedicated pump session (skumping/LDP) which is my main game, then I want a slightly cambered, big (75mm) wheeled, verrry slightly concaved (too much concave lead to foot arch pain) longboard like these. I don't really care about the high CG from the wheels because I don't think about having to push.
If I'm "sprint pumping" (which is basically slalom/cyber) then I really like a shorter deck like a Roe Crossfire or my custom Landyachtz, something in the 30" length.
So when looking for something to both pump and push you have to compromise somewhere. Smaller wheels on the LDP setup for example, will be easier to push.
And yeaaaaah -- flexdex is way too gummy and gooey for long distance pumping. I've tried with all kinds of trucks, but there's just not enough spring in the deck. I consider flexdex as a sweet downhill CARVE board. Hope this helps! -jp
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LDP/Skogger/Pumper/SprintPumping/Whatever!
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On 1/30/2006
Sean C.
wrote in from
United States
(167.206.nnn.nnn)
Hmm... So lets say the wheels, trucks, and bearings are taken care of... pick a board that you would use for the given equipment... Something that can pump like a dream whether it be long distance/skogging/sprints, whatever the heck...
You're a pro skumper, what do ya think?
Oh yeah, is a flexdex way too saggy flex for pumping long distance?
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LDP skumping setup
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On 1/30/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Hey Sean, nice setup specs! For long distance pump I typically run in the 25"--28" range, with 3-4" of nose past the front truck. Adjusting wheelbase is also a good way to adjust your flex to what works best for you - I like slight flex but would err on the side of stiff rather than soggy noodle. If you're talking about 3--5 mile pumps, some concave is fine. But for long, non-stop pumps, I'd go with a really mellow concave or flat, with slight snappy camber. The wheels you're talking about are perfect for skumping/LDP, but you'll need xtra riser. If you're trying to find a balance with skogging or expect to be pushing much or at all, then you'll probably want to size down your wheels a notch or come up with some cut-outs solution to get the deck a little lowered. As for wheel hardness, I like rear 72a's, but my trails are pretty rocky. If your terrain is smoother you'll get better roll speed on 78a's or higher, like Al was mentioning before. Keep us posted, Comets rock!!
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LDP Setup... Opinions?
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On 1/30/2006
Sean C.
wrote in from
United States
(167.206.nnn.nnn)
Hey guys... I have a setup in mind for long distance pumping and I wanted to hear your opinions on it...
I'm thinking:
42" Scramjet (not sure on the flex/camber/concave of the board, any help?)
RTR Trucks
72a avilas rear, 76a up front...
or
76a avilas rear, 77a front
Any comments? Suggestions?
Thanks.
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more rain, more CYBER!
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On 1/29/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Great little pump sesh this morning with some always-welcome newbie blood, bumped the indoor Cyber 174' strips up a couple feet for an 'official' 176-foot Trap. Ran Cyber with unlimited push and measurable difference! Cyber started this way years ago with unlimited pushes up to the start line. Drop decks for pushing, and a flat PPS for pumpin' the Trap. Speeeedy good times!
Cyber (regulation 15-foot push)
BJ 9.445
JP 9.512
CM 9.666
JS 9.800
TIM 12.752
Cyber (unlimited push)
BJ 7.927
CM 8.289
JS 8.460
JP 8.515
TIM 13.538
The Trap (secs / mph pushing)
JS 7.185 / 16.701
JP 7.342 / 16.344
JP 7.770 / 15.444 (pumping)
BJ 7.913 / 15.165
CM 8.554 / 14.028
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phat bushings
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On 1/28/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Mixing and matching fat bushings from a Radikal Race Pack and Khiros has been a great test. For flatland on the CarverCX, I like Red Rads 80a bottom, clear 75a on top, or for slalom Red Rads bottom and Khiro white cone on top. Hardest I ever used was green 90a Rads on a rear truck. Downhill on Randals I like a Blue/Red Rad combo. I like all that extra "meat" -- they have fast return, and seem to last a lot longer. Plus I like that with a Rad Race Pack you can order just the duros you want. I also love my Stims, but I use them a little less since they're kinda rare and $pendier...
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bushings
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On 1/28/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Al, in response to your question about larger bushings,I have used green Stims as my bottom bushing on ALL of my longboards. (I would have tried them on my slalom decks too expect for the fact that the kingpins are generally too short to accomodate the fatter bushing. And I don't use certain trucks on my longboard, such as Indy's, just because the kingpin can not be swapped for a longer one that will accomodate the Stims. )
I really like the quick return to centre of the Stims and how deep the carves are with a fat bushing. As well and most importantly to me, I found that I could run my trucks washer-rattling loose and still have a stable ride when I used the Stims. So there is no doubt in my mind that the fatter bushing, well at least as far as the Stims go, offer a superior set up for deep, high speed carving as well as mellow flat land cruising.
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oversize bushings
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On 1/28/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
Just finished test riding some new homemade oversize bushings...one from a blue Krytonic, which I think is about a 74a and one from a Sec9 wheel 78a. They are both the same dimensions about1 1/16" by 1" tall. I used a 2 1/2" kingpin to accommidate the new height, and inset the bushings both into the hangers and the baseplates about 1/8". For the top bushing I used a lower Indy/conical shaped. I'm still assessing whether they're better for my pumping or not...but first impressions are that they have promise! I actually liked the feel of the soft Krypto, and had to torque it down real good to keep it from biting the wheel. However, after that, I really liked the return to center that it provided, as well as it seeming to give more stability when I test carved circles at a steep angle. The extra urethane could really be felt using this deep carve test.
For pumping there seemed to be also a mild benefit due to the return to center being better, and over-all seemed to give a little smoother ride. Many more tests to come in the next few weeks. I'm curious if others have noticed any increase in performance using a larger bushing?
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LDP/skumpin thane
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On 1/27/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
The bouncier new 'thane will make rougher trails more tolerable on long stretches. I've only cranked Retro 70mm's through a few cones so far and they're butta-smooth, but no long distance pumps yet. Over the Burke Gilman trail's 27 miles, the asphalt is about 10% ultra-smooth, 60% average, and 30% rocky & chewed up. That roughest terrain can jar your feet from their sockets on harder duros after pumping a few miles, so I've liked how Avilas 81a front/72a back lets you surf through it all. On Green Lake 2.8-mile loop, the entire surface is smooth, so 84a/81a is great there. Just like slalom its always nice to have extra duros and sizes to switch up, based on the terrain. Good point made to keep growing your quiver of wheels!!
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zig zags etc..
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On 1/27/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
Every time I pump, I consider exactly what Chris is talking about, and many times have tried to figure ways to get both good carving and pumping, without losing the speed! For this reason I generally dislike pumping soft wheels! (ie. wheels under 78a) Though they are very sweet on the pavement they are too slow and inefficient. The best I have found so far are the white Avalons...but really hope these zig zags out do them!
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How to Pump