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| Organizations (1242 Posts)
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Organizations
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On 12/4/2001 Boardman
wrote in from
(12.80.nnn.nnn)
JG - Thanks for the great post and enlightenment. I am reborn in slalom and was unaware of the ISSA happenings. The lodging issues (I'll bet there were some wicked happenings in those dorms) are a very nice idea. It also sounds as if they did have it together. 3 groups of racing in 1 day? That's insane!
I am not closed minded (even though my previous post implied it) and I am opening up to ideas.
As far as the Olympic thing. Do you think Olson would be a good US rep for Olympics? I don't even think he would consider it. But maybe I am wrong as the man is incredible. This takes me back to IMAGE. The USOC is not gonna even consider a scraggly bunch of skaterats for an Olympic event, much less the "extracurricular activities" we are known to indulge in. As far as I am concerned, Olympic scale racing would KILL the soul of our sport ( sorry, Jack)
Let's race some more!!!!!!
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khrt
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On 12/4/2001 cfavero
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
to put some spin on a infamous quote from john kruk,"i'm not an athlete,i'm a skater"cf
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ISSA...I was there
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On 12/4/2001
Martin
wrote in from
(80.225.nnn.nnn)
Myself, Clingfilm and Paul Price skated in the ISSA organized European Championships in Paris 1980 and Tarby, Sweden in 1987. (Tony Magnussen who did so well at La Costa was in the Vert event representing Sweden!)
At the first event, we had a situation where no one knew exactly what to expect and the Italians put up a ski-style GS with double gates, delays/banana gates and blind gates. It was so confusing to us Brits to see double the gates that were necessary that we all DQ'd except one of our freestylers who made it because he went super slow!
It was a waste of time so the team (aged 17-20)went to the supermarket, bought wine for $0.75 a bottle and hung out with the German schoolgirls in our hotel instead....Oh happy days!
At the '87 event the ISSA was in full effect with the contest organized by Jani Soderhall. Everything was perfect, we knew what to expect roughly as far as courses went and better still with 3 people from different countries chosen at random setting the course it didn't favour any one group of skaters. This worked much better than the snowboard racing equivalent where at each comp one of the Team coaches is chosen at random, because he then just sets what his racers have been practicing and what favours their strengths!
Notice how there is nothing like local knowledge of the site of a race?...How many people in the top 16 had ridden that hill at La Costa several times before and didn't have to go through the hassle, and sometimes loss of skin, working out which wheels worked BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY knew roughly what type of course to expect and prepare for?
The same can obviously be said for any of the recent contests I have been to (Cambria,Da Farm,Revere),with the locals doing very well with that extra little edge. There is no way to take away the home advantage, and why should we, but you can even the playing field by making the course the variable factor, albeit within guidelines....
Martin.
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World Freestyle Skateboard Association
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On 12/4/2001
Bob "steel wheel" Staton
wrote in from
(4.41.nnn.nnn)
Greetings,
I' m very interested in the formation of a central slalom organization. I spent 2 hours this morning writing a
post on the slalom page about this whole issue of
organization and how the WFSA has delt with the
very things you here are questioning. We have an interest in slalom as part of our vision and goals,
please go over to the slalom page and read my post
from this mornrig. I have suggested having a Summit
Meeting of organizers past ,present, and fiture that have an interests in the slalom community.
Thank you.
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organization/clubs
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On 12/3/2001
hc
wrote in from
(65.184.nnn.nnn)
After been involved in slalom this year, it's nice to see a push for the forming of a organization. In many ways, this online community, aka the ncdsa, is already the organizer of the the slalom/downhill community.
One thing I would like to see is the development of regional clubs using an online database that would allow members to easily keep tract of each other. Newcomers to the sport can contact their regional club to meet up with fellow riders.
For an example of this, check
http://www.footbag.org/clobs/index
(individual member can form their own club page with contact infos and members list)
I also think this club database should not be purely slalom oriented but other forms of downhill skating as well.
my 2 cents.
hc in San Jose, skating the parking garages.
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ISSA
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On 12/3/2001
John Gilmour
wrote in from
(151.203.nnn.nnn)
Gesmer recently went to Jani Soderhall's house (former ISSA president and founder). I think it is fair to say that when a sport starts up there are many different formats. ISSA just tried to unify the formats somewhat without being overly limited as to the description of each format. They somehow managed to keep the club feel and yet make the events run at a professional level.
They often got 3 slalom events done in in a single day with about 50 competitors for each event including qualifying runs. One of the events was ussually a dual event. In some cases there were more than 3 events in a single day.
Yet there was still time to hang out. Chill, and watch.
ISSA wanted the accommodations to be covered only for one reason. Without free accommodations the Eastern Block countries could not afford to compete. Usually the free accommodations consisted of bunks in a school house- or some youth hostel type accommodation. It never seemed to cost the promoter anything- often the town just let the contestants use the facilities because they knew it would bring tourism (spectator) dollars to the town. If you wanted to stay in a nicer place you paid- or hooked up with a friendly local family. But even if you just wanted to come and compete and had no money except for your entry fee- you could afford it. It also meant you were assured accommodation even if you showed up on a whim or dare.
The reason for having three people picked at random from 3 different countries to set the course was to ensure a course would be set that could be run by the majority of the participants. That worked most of the time- only at one race did it heavily swing one way (tight and technical)- at The Jeux Pyreneens D'Aventure which was funded by the French and Spanish Olympic Committees in 1993 to evaluate slalom skateboarding for entrance into the games. Unfortunately the Olympic Committee and French Skateboarding Federation did not follow the ISSA rules and the event was a Double tight technical course set on flat. As a result perhaps the Committees were not so impressed.......but if you set a downhill ski course on a flat slope what would you expect? Sad also that the only ISSA race which Paul Dunn and Beau Brown attended was not run according to ISSA race course requirements and frankly though the largest race was the far from the best racing.
Chris Yandall did attend a race in Hombrectikon Switerland- it would be great if he were to offer a second opinion to the quality of the racing and racers and the organization. He even attended an ISSA Meeting.
Ironically ISSA and the French Skating Federation got an award from the Olympic Committees for being the best organized. They were the best organized at the Jeux Pyreneens games but not nearly as well as at their other ISSA races.
ISSA was a group formed by skaters to represent the needs and wants of the skaters and not for big sponsors- or industry. The members had even less money than the people in our group. If you wanted to participate in an ISSA race you paid the entry fee and if you weren't a member you paid an extra $25 for a yearly membership that got you a t-shirt- hat, and a years worth of the mags. If you won money in the race your membership was upgraded to "pro" and an addittional $15 was taken from your prize money. Once Pro you were always a PRO. To stretch hte ISSA dollars the T-shirts, hats and publishing was all done in the Easern Block countries using western hard currency.
This small organization- mostly it seemed run by a dedicated group of Swedes- managed to get our sport in front of the Olympic committees, get 45 skaters paid airfare and hotel rooms and food for a week with Olympic style opening and closing ceremonies and parties. Pretty impressive I thought.
Every country had a representitive and there were meetings before and after each contest to discuss how to improve the format. Everything was decided democratically by vote. The meetings were short- ussually about 45 or so minutes.
ISSA had a lot of respect for the USA and looked to the USA for leadership and new Equipment. Unfortunately slalom was in total hibernation in the USA. No one was happier to see Americans attend the contests than the Europeans, as the USA was the inventor of the sport it lent a sort of authenticity to their contests to have Americans there.
I'm sorry that so many people yell at me for "living in the past" about ISSA, and I am sorry that some people might feel threatened by a well run organization that did so on a shoe string budget. It doesn't change the great time I had racing over there and the strong comeradery amongst racers that was felt- even if you couldn't speak the same language. All the meetings were held in English and the Magazine- SLALOM!- was published in English. Often broken English, yet that lent it a certain endearing flavor.
Articles were contributed by skaters- translation was done as needed.
It would be great if GBJ, Hester, Don O'Shei, Jack Smith, Peter Camann, Marcus Reitema, and Gary Fluitt, could have raced a few ISSA races and met Jani Soderhall. IMHO I think everyone would have appreciated the meeting. I think Jani raced Hester once.
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Knucklehead Welcoming Committee
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On 12/3/2001
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
Well a few more days have passed and it would seem that the memories of La Costa aren’t ever going to go away. Injuries are on the mend and pictures of the apré-race activities are surfacing and of course the conflicts that have surfaced are... well, being hashed out.
Another wind is blowing and a sense for the need of an official organization is upon us. Some are eager to have a sanctioning association and others feel sufficient w/the status quo. Whatever happens be assured that there will never be a lack of Knuckleheads to fill in the gaps because there will always be a reason to hack the scene. With that in mind join me in welcoming a few more members to this society of ne'er-do-wells who may not be able to skate together but surely stand apart.
So join me in welcoming to the fold our new members: Nancy Smith (our 50th member!), Kenny Mollica, Brian Hall, and Nathan Favero (this must be the second time Nate...)
So you've have been chosen to join the ranks of the few without honor, compassion, nor financial rewards; to share in the society of Knuckleheads. A secret society hiding in plain sight (shhhhh.... act invisible). To proclaim your right to error without apologies (What a lovely excuse), and the freedom to speak your mind and anybody else's that you happen to hear inside your head.
All rise (several Knuckleheads are present but you can't see them) and clench you fists and salute (ouch!) our new members.
In the following days (er, weeks... ok months) you will receive more info on our the mayhem we are privileged too and a good DEAL more. (You guys can put your hands down now.)
*If there is anyone out there that hasn’t received the inconsistent flow of emails from me babbling about the importance of the miscellany please email me and berate me for my inconsideration. I will only have to comply. And if there are others still who would like to be a part of this dis-organization; feel free to let me know why you are such a Knucklehead and I’ll be too happy to bring you into the fray.
Always at your service,
Alan Sidlo
Knucklehead Racing Team
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Olympics
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On 12/3/2001 Glen
wrote in from
(216.102.nnn.nnn)
I never got why "the industry" didn't want it to be in the Olympics either.
The fact that skiing was in never made me want to stop skiing, even though I was never into racing. I skied Atomic slalom skis and got the benefit of their racing R&D.
A lot of skaters want skateboarding to be an exclusive club.
It's the same mentality person that says some band, that they liked, sold out just because they sold some records. If it's not their own thing, it's not cool.
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Olympics
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On 12/3/2001
Jack
wrote in from
(216.207.nnn.nnn)
Skateboarding in the Olympics...one of my favorite topics. I may be in the minority on this issue, however, I think that skateboarding should be in the Olympics.
Back in the early 80's there was actually a group that was advocating skateboarding's inclusion as an exhibition sport at the 1984 Los Angeles Olympiad. However, the skateboard industry in all their wisdom would not support the group's efforts. Their "reason"..."skateboarding doesn't need the Olympics". Boy that's smart. No, skateboarding didn't need the Olympics, but just think of the exposure it would have given the sport when it was at a low point in 1984. Countries throughout the world would have put together teams to compete. And maybe, just maybe these countries, including the USA would have recognized the need for public skateboarding facilities.
Oh, what's that you say...skateboarders would never wear uniforms. Skateboarders have always worn uniforms.
I guarantee you, tell a kid he's made the Olympic skateboarding team and he'll wear whatever you tell him to wear. Does anyone remember the closing ceremonies of the Atlanta Olympics? Remember the skate/BMX/inline portion?
What would you call those outfits?
Ok. I'm off the soap box. As always thanks for reading.
PS - I have been begun corresponding with the Greek Olympic Organizing Committee regarding the possibilty of including slalom skateboarding as an exhibition/test sport in 2004.
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KHRT
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On 12/3/2001 Boardman
wrote in from
(12.80.nnn.nnn)
OK, an interview w/ Mr. ARA - Peter Camann is up and coming. this should give everyone a good insight as to what goes on to put together a series of racing. Even though his ideas and procedures are 20 plus years old many of these issues keep coming up.
If there is a sanctioning body, then it should be by the skaters for the skaters.
I have always paid for my own hotel room. I wouldn't want someone else making my accomodations.
Vert is not dead, it is highly underground and you would have to perform harsh torture to get info out of a die hard for his pool stash. Leave the 1/2 pipes for the X games.
NO to ISSA. I don't even know if I like the idea of a sanctioning body but will consider if things are done for the skaters.
I went to La Costa to have fun. I paid my $50 to race. I was NOT disappointed.
See you all at WLAC or Rooster's
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USSSF is not elitist.
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On 12/3/2001 lbk
wrote in from
(209.244.nnn.nnn)
loneskater,
I think you might have it backwards. Those that want to make slalom skateboarding an elitist sport are probably the most against GBJ's USSSF ideas. But on the other hand, there are those that I call the "apathetic slalomers" that so far have only taken from slaloming but are not ready to take the risks & personal costs it requires to give anything back. I'm not harshing on the apathetic slalomers skateboarders, instead I'm just pointing it out the way I see it. Something like the USSSF might be the way that the apathetic slalomer can give something back and become involved even if it just in membership dues and showing up to contests.
By the way, come on out to the Gathering for a good time slaloming and healthy discussion about slaloming.
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ISSA, USSSF, Dead Vert, & the Olympics
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On 12/3/2001 lbk
wrote in from
(209.244.nnn.nnn)
Don't even bother to read this:
-> The ISSA is defunct.
-> In contrast to the ISSA, would not the USSSF promote slaloming as we enjoy it today.
-> Vert is rotting dead. When was the last time anyone put on a non elitist, aka "backyard", vert contest?.... OK I'll let you in a secret, vert is alive but it is way underground and in the form of pool skating. But officially it is dead and I like it that way. In other words, slalom skateboarding is larger than vert skating. How's that for a cyclical throw back to the 70's.
-> Support the USSSF idea and hold more local "backyard" slalom contests. Then invite the new schoolers. This is how we pass the sport on!
-> Lastly, slalom skateboarding in the Olympics is a pipe dream that I for one am not ready to smoke.
DR
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La Costa
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On 12/3/2001
slappy
wrote in from
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Adam T,
I think 90% of the people that attended La Costa would disagree with your assessment of the race. The fastest person DID win the race. Olson kicks ass!
The fastest NASCAR(Indy, Pro bike, horse) racer in time trials doesn't automatically win the race. They just get pole position.
Head to head requires more strategy and endurance than combining the scores of a few runs. Plus you have a chance to race a lot in one day.
I respect your opinion, but head to head is the way to go!
Slappy
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USSA
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On 12/3/2001
adam t
wrote in from
(208.203.nnn.nnn)
Hey Scabs,
Thanks for the response. I appreciate your point(s) and believe that a good idea should be able to stand on it's own. Our opinions are valuable as participants.
Some things:
1. "Can you imagine Henry having to pay for all the entrants motel rooms?"
I didn't imagine anyone into office and don't expect anyone to pay the bills. Is this the reason the ISSA exsists? If it is, surely I agree with you but I don't think this is ISSA's direction.
2."Would you as the promoter of your event want 3 others from differrent locales to be the ones setting the course?
I think three people from other areas would be great way to set a course. I don't have experience traveling and running others courses, so this is all ethereal for me, but I think the idea of sharing that responsibility promotes a community idea of a racers course. Yes, I think that would be good idea but then again, I'm not a "name" in the sport.
3. "Would you want ISSA members to se the only ones to compete?"
I think in order to "grow" the sport of slalom racing, an organization needs to be in place. The ISSA is a model, maybe not the best, but one that is in place and has been proven by the test of time. There will always be "grass roots" racing for the rest of us.
4. "no no no and NO to ISSA. We need an organization that is flexible to some extent and actually promotes or encourages others to participate."
Well, I should understand that you already have your mind made up. Yes, the sport needs an organization to promote and encourage others to participate. I think the NCDSA is doing a fine job of this. It also needs a serious organization to promote "organized racing" This is why I mentioned the ISSA.
The fact that the ISSA web site is not "updated" does make me wonder. But then again, I have not investigated this. I lost track of the global by looking at the local community here. I think I will shoot Jani and others a e-mail and ask him what his opinion is on the "USA" school of thought if he has followed all of this.
I did not make it to La Costa and I find my information about it here. I'm interested in seeing slalom skateboarding in the Olympics. I think it is THE form of skateboarding to actually have a chance. Unfortunately, I don't think La Costa, from what I have read, is the role model for serious racing. Did the fastest person win? No, it was about "head to head" racing, a viable form, but not the only one. I'ts all good, please, don't get me wrong, I like the vibe. But it is a different direction, one that was based more on a gathering and that is totally alright too.
I think it is time to get serious as well as promoting the sport. There is room for both, isn't there? In order to be taken seriously by the olympic commitee, we need to be serious. There is also room for fun.
In order to advance skateboard racing, we need to get serious about rules and timing. If I am not mistaken, the ISSA has already done this.
Scabs, thanks for your comments, I take no offense and I hope you take none from mine. The NCDSA is a great web site, an excellent public forum. I hope all of our words ring the bell of truth.
Have a great day,
adam t
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khrt
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On 12/3/2001 cfavero
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
hey,like i sais before,i am not tryin to be negative,i just want to be careful.any sanctioning body should be a slave to its members,and the authourity should really rest in the members hands also.it takes a special person to lead a sanctioning body,somebody selfless who truly loves the sport ans also understands that if it ultimately fails ,can do way more harm than good.i am glad people are so passionate on this site,that is very healthy.passion is always the igniter.i do not disagree with the need for more organization,i just always want it to be fun.cf
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On 12/3/2001
Paul K
wrote in from
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what about The Unified Slalom Association!!
Blast!!!, that three letter acronym has already been used
Paul K
KHRT UK
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ISSA not
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On 12/2/2001
Scabs
wrote in from
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Adam T,
The rules for the ISSA take the flow out of slalom skateboarding. Can you imagine Henry having to pay for all the entrants motel rooms? Would you as the promoter of your event want 3 others from differrent locales to be the ones setting the course? Would you want ISSA members to se the only ones to compete?
no no no and NO to ISSA. We need an organization that is flexible to some extent and actually promotes or encourages others to participate.
So its not actually reinventing the wheel but more like perfecting it.
Oh, and did you notice that site has not been updated in almost 3 years?
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go for it
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On 12/2/2001
loneskater
wrote in from
(159.87.nnn.nnn)
vert skating isn't dead. skating is cyclic. i have heard for years skateboarding is dead at different times. just the other day a youngster at the park asked me if skating was dying. i told him no it was just going to be dormant for a while if he wanted to quit it was on him. but, cities are building parks with vert, you always have to search for you own pools and there are alot of virgin ditches waiting to be ridden.
slalom is a different animal. it is being resurected by us old guys, so how are you going to make it appeal to younger skaters? i don't have an answer for you. it scares most of them to death (at speed) but they will still call it gay, go figure.
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ISSA
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On 12/2/2001 adam t
wrote in from
(208.203.nnn.nnn)
http://www.pcpal.fr/issa/
Why re-invent the wheel?
These guys (ISSA) are organized. I believe that J.Gilmour, Paul Dunn, Beau Brown could really speak from experience about competition in this organization. I've followed it from a distance for years, love reading their "Slalom" magazine (from long ago) and well, they have already done their homework. It is a great organization and I wonder why for the most part, it is ignored over here???
adam t (with all due respect)
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usssf
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On 12/2/2001 slappy
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
Another thought for the lack of funds equation is volunteering. you could have reduced rates for racers who volunteer at events, etc.
Or have volunteering as an optional way of achieving points to a season of racing.
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The time is now for the USSSF
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On 12/2/2001
longboardkook
wrote in from
(209.244.nnn.nnn)
If we don't strike while the iron is hot and pass slalom skateboarding on to the next generation then slalom skateboarding will die.
Just look at vert skating. Vert skating is on it's last breath. Once ESPN realizes that kids today have no real interest in vert skating, they will pull the spotlight from the sport and vert will be D.O.A. Do we want to let Slalom Skateboarding to die also? We can only ride this slalom thing the way it is for so much longer. Just take a look at the arguments that broke out after probably the best event ever, La Costa.
USSSF at the very least will the ESA (East Coast Surfing Association) of slalom. That alone would be worth it. We having nothing to loose by getting organized and keeping the momentum rolling. Jack, Henry, GBJ and others can only push slaloming so far before they get burnt out or start stepping on each other's events.
When it comes down to it, we can't just keep taking from slalom skateboarding and think it will always be there for us. Every one as a slalom skateboarder needs to put something back into slalom skateboarding. It could be volunteer time, it could be money, or it could be both. Hell, if skaters in Gilmour's shoes can't afford a membership to the USSSF, so what. They will just pay a slightly higher entry fee for any USSSF supported events. But, the USSSF will be there for the greater good of all slalom skateboarders including those that are not members of the USSSF.
So support the idea of USSSF and lets get it started now!
DR
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Organizations
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On 12/2/2001
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
cfavero speaks from the heart. Grassroots racing events should also have their place in all this too.
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khrt
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On 12/2/2001
cfavero
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
hey, i'm not trying to neg,alan and i had a similar converstation earlier in te week.pretty much about how cool all the backyard ramp contests were in the early 80's.the vibe,the get together,people scrapin to go for a weekend contest.nobody bitched about the ramp,seldom the judging and best of all,there were no large sanctioning bodies,just a bunch of small groups of people who threw these things together(remember the M.E.S.S. series?).i get the same vibe when i read a lot of the posts and to tell the truth,thats probably the reason i am as stoked aboutslalom and down hill the way i am right now.really rediscovering that sense of fun that contests can be that vert and street have lost a long ,long time ago. i am not against more organization,just the lessons of the past are to painful,cf
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CRA
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On 12/2/2001
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
I would suggest a different name... maybe "Cone Runners Assoc" CRA... or "Slalom Person Assoc" SPA... or "World Wide Slalam Assoc" WWSA...
Too many letters are hard for some of us to manage! HR
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NSSF
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On 12/2/2001 Glen
wrote in from
(216.102.nnn.nnn)
Thanks for clearing up your point GBJ.
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