|
|
|
| Q&A: Dr David Hartman on Head Injuries (824 Posts)
|
| Topic |
Comment |
|
Head Injury Alone - Vasocreta
|
|
On 5/22/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Symptoms like that sound like a concussion. First thing is do not get back on a board or continue what ever got you dinged in the first place. Sports studies suggest that two concussions in a short time period have more than additive effects and may even prove fatal.
The second issue is getting some help. Carry a cell phone in a hard case if you're boarding alone. Let people know where you'll be. Get someone to drive you home or the local ER. If your vision gets blurred, or you feel nauseous or you have any kind of cognitive symptoms (slurred speech, confusion, memory problems, etc) just get yourself to the ER ASAP.
You could carry a chemical ice pack, but that's not a substitute for getting to an ER if there is really something wrong.
drD
|
|
|
|
|
Getting the injured to help
|
|
On 5/22/2002
Wesley Tucker
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Take away the keys, suffer the abuse and call an ambulance. Let the pros do their job of subduing and transporting an irrational and possibly self-destructive head trauma victim.
|
|
|
|
|
doh driving
|
|
On 5/22/2002 longy
wrote in from
(194.117.nnn.nnn)
true wes, i drove myself back home after threatening friends with extreme violence due to my concussion...i dont remember any of it....if you ever have a bro or sis slam and have concussion and they want to drive whats the best way to "convince" them they can't drive knowing full well concussion creates abnormal behaviour?
|
|
|
|
|
Head injury first aid
|
|
On 5/22/2002
Wesley Tucker
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
Vaso, I just wrote a lengthy response related to specific first aid procedures for a head injury. Then I decided, "nah, this is Dr. Dave's forum, it's for him to address." (Besides, some of my first aid training is 15 years old. Maybe things have changed.) Not to be completely left out of the discussion, though, I do want to add one thing to whatever information the doctor provides:
DON'T DRIVE YOURSELF TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM! Damned if I want someone on the road who just took a blow to the head. That's good advice for both your condition and my well-being!
|
|
|
|
|
Snell RS98
|
|
On 5/22/2002 MoonDoggie
wrote in from
(199.123.nnn.nnn)
This helmet is rated RS 98 what does that mean?
Snell Certified To The RS98 Ski Helmet Standard
http://www.prorider.com/pro/images/ski.jpg
David"MoonDoggie"Garcia
|
|
|
|
|
Actual question
|
|
On 5/22/2002
vasocreta
wrote in from
(198.4.nnn.nnn)
Dr. Dave--
what is one to do if they find themselves in a situation where they have suffered a significant impact to the head and are alone, and feeling a bit dizzy?? Should a person stand, sit, etc...
I am not sure if this question complies with your inability to provide treatment via the web, but I am hoping that this is more of a question related to injury precaustion--how to prevent further injury, for example-- than actually treating a pre-existing condition.
Thanks.
vasocreta
|
|
|
|
|
helmet
|
|
On 5/22/2002 Gary H.
wrote in from
(17.255.nnn.nnn)
I'm gonna' jump in here, I agree that you have to know how to fall. At the recent donner FCR race, on a toe side turn, on Sundays G/S course, at the fastest part of the course, I lost traction, I ejected and planted as much plastic (knee and wrist guards) on the ground and slid something like 30 feet. My neck was sore as hell from fighting gravity so my head would not get near the ground...had I just relaxed during the fall I may have had a pretty severe impact on the front of my head/face...my point is you can have the best safety equipment and you can still get hurt. You have to know HOW to fall.
|
|
|
|
|
Pro-tec "Brainsaver"
|
|
On 5/22/2002
vasocreta
wrote in from
(198.4.nnn.nnn)
I just purchased a Triple 8 "Brainsaver" helmet made by Pro-tec. To be honest, I didn't even check if it was Snell certified and stuff like that. However, I agree with John Gilmour's earlier post, how do we determine the characteristics needed in helmets for this sport? I can't imagine that the helmets needed for slalom skateboarding would be very different than those needed by freestyle skateboarders. The level of impact that the head would endure when thrown from a skateboard moving at 40 mph as oppossed to a rider who comes straight down on his/her head when falling off a rail would be pretty comparable. I think that the effectiveness of helmets overall does not just lie in the hemet, but in the persons ability to use the helmets protective features effectively.
Knowing how to fall is just as important as the level of protection provided by the equipment you wear. We have to remember that the human head is only as hard an unripe watermelon. So, any amount of shell around a watermelon would still impose bruising.
My thoughts on this topic is twofold: more time needs to be spent be people learning how to fall in such a way that the effects of impact are minimized and that helmets manufacturers spend more time on shell lightness, and overall shell strength, and not enough time on shock absorbtion. When you play on concrete, I would venture to guess that shock absorbtion would be much more important than overall shell hardness. The body can take quite an impact if shock is minimized.
matt::vasocreta
|
|
|
|
|
Helmet notion
|
|
On 5/22/2002
Wesley Tucker
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
Ok, while we're discussion "pefect" skate helmets, here's my suggestion.
Ever seen those old Roman epics? The centurians wear what looks like a "skull cap" of bronze. Very form fitting with little or no space between head and hat. For skating, why would not such a configuration be ideal? Molded from Kevlar and a slight amount of padding to improve fit.
Ok, I know the objections. Most helmets have a 1/2 or more of padding and it feels like sticking your head into a box full of pillows. What, though, does a skater really need for impact protection? Two things: no crushing impact on the skull (accomplished,) and resistance to concussive reverberations. Well, I don't care if you skate wearing a chaise lounge over your head, concussions are going to happen. With a Kevlar "skull cap," odds have it the concrete would be dented before the helmet. As long as something gives on impact, all the laws of physics are obeyed. I'd rather it be the street than my cerebellum.
As far as reducing concussion, what about a completely different kind of padding? Instead of some sort of bulky foam, how about some sort of liquid? Don't laugh, but here's my idea for a form fitting cushion to reduce concussive reverberations: silicon pouches. (Yes, just like THOSE that Dow used to make.) What if my "skull cap" were lined with thin, indestructable (according to the manufacturer,) pouches of liquid silicon? Form fitting, concussion-absorbent and the ability to dissipate heat. What a great combination.
So such an impenetrable skull cap would reduce injury to the head and provide the needed freedom and light weight to ride with little interference.
Hey, we're skateboarders, not hockey players or motorcycle rider. Thinking out fo the box is the only way to go.
|
|
|
|
|
heads up
|
|
On 5/21/2002 longboardbuddha
wrote in from
(62.31.nnn.nnn)
i see what you are saying, my lid as i think i mentioned cost upwards of 200 quid (i think thats about 3,000 usd....only joking)but i needed some getting into as there was a support at the rear of the neck which actually held the helmet on in my slam...a good thing!!we need a helmet that is an amalgamation of light weight reinforced plastic or kevlar with an adjustable loop strap system which cossets the back of the neck just like the us and british army kevlar helmets....i use the british army version for ramps and pools its heavy but its protective qualities are second to none.
|
|
|
|
|
helmets
|
|
On 5/21/2002 beau brown
wrote in from
(216.103.nnn.nnn)
I was first going to post on a different subject(injuries from impact to the lower torso & extremities), but need to adress the helmet issue from my experiences. First, I am a former Downhill Racer and current Slalom Racer. I say former downhill, because I felt that I was doing as much hockey playing(hip checks mandatory)at the races as actual races. It was no longer fun, and certainly wasn't safe. Slalom racing on the otherhand is clean racing, challenging and (relatively) safe in comparison. Helmet safety became an all important issue for me when I witnessed the death of a close friend and racer, Dave Perry at the 1998 Lake Elsinore EDI race. His helmet was Snell and DOT approved. This didn't stop the design flaw that allowed his helmet to fly off(fully strapped down)when thrown violently foward. This was a full face motorcycle helmet. I also witnessed another friend carted away in an ambulence with concussion and multiple facial lacerations from crashing in an unrated, homemade "downhill ski racer" helmet. Although I agree that Snell & DOT ratings are great, appropriate equipment for the activity is more so.
I have had numerous highspeed crashes(above 50mph)myself, but luckily have never had head injuries. Embarassed to say that in the past(pre '98) helmets were not so important to me. Since then, although money is not everything, my motto has been "if you got a $10.00 head, wear a $10.00 helmet." This is not meant to be a horror story, just first hand experience.
I believe The TSG skateboard helmet is at very least DOT approved(I have one on the way), as are some of the Vigor helmets. I am hearing a lot about the Giro helmets as well. They seem to be all workable options.
We as skateboarders are seeing the day when helmet mfg's will be regonize an economic advantage to make sports specific equipment for us.
|
|
|
|
|
WhiteWaterBoarders
|
|
On 5/21/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
I forwarded the question as to whether a whitewater helmet could work for us, to Snell (http://www.smf.org/). If they answer, I'll post their reply.
drD
|
|
|
|
|
Grateful Heads/ Shred Ready helmets
|
|
On 5/21/2002
kmg
wrote in from
(208.211.nnn.nnn)
Dave G,
I checked out the Grateful Heads and Shred Ready helmets myself. They look very solid, but very heavy, and are designed for white water. I think the weight could be a negative factor in a fall. Also, there is no provision for ventilation, since it wouldn't be necessary when you're soaked in water anyway.
Do you have any juice with these guys? I bet they could easily come up with a helmet specifically designed for skateboard racing.
I'd be interested to hear Dr. David's impression of these helmets.
|
|
|
|
|
'elmets
|
|
On 5/21/2002 longboardbuddha
wrote in from
(194.117.nnn.nnn)
i think we got the wrong end of the stick here...what i meant was obviously the extreme nature of downhill and gravity sports dictates that you have the best protection you can possess (note that i dont say afford as its my opinion if its the best then pay the money or dont do the sport)now specialist mtb and motorcross helmets are peddled as safe helmets but my opinion on these are that if the face guard can shatter and take off a guys ear then there is nothing to stop said shard from entering the eye orbit and the brain (sods law says its only a matter of time)i reckon the design of these helmets will get better with time and may be an option in the future but for now i wouldn't buy one.
mike
|
|
|
|
|
Dr. Dave on Impact
|
|
On 5/20/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
My real position is that ANY helmet is better than NO helmet. Even low speed falls without a helmet can mean major and permanent brain damage. 30-40 mph speed falls from a board can generate a 2000 to 4000 g's at the point of impact. That is skull and brain crushing, non-survivable territory.
Yes, Snell is unquestionably better, but wearing any helmet is much much better than nothing. Winding up in a tertiary care nursing home as a brain-damaged quad is not worth having the feel of the wind in your hair.
drD
|
|
|
|
|
Grateful Heads/ Shred Redy
|
|
On 5/20/2002 Dave G
wrote in from
(208.29.nnn.nnn)
I know Dr. Dave recognizes no helmet that has not passed Snell, But these 2 brands are the "bullet" proof version for anyone wanting a Great helmet!! They are not subjected to snell standards (white water has no need) , But I'm sure would be willing to go there!
|
|
|
|
|
full face helmets...
|
|
On 5/20/2002 Patio
wrote in from
(66.168.nnn.nnn)
hey longboardbuddah,
so you are saying that the helmet saved this guy's face from impact, but when the helmet "blew apart", (absorbing energy), a piece of it cut his ear.
That's cool.
I'd much rather have a cut off ear, than to have my unprotected face driven into the ground, breaking my nose, knocking out my teeth, not to mention the chance of "putting my eye out".
P@io
|
|
|
|
|
Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute
|
|
On 5/20/2002
Mad Hack
wrote in from
(202.95.nnn.nnn)
I know it's been said before, but here is a good link to helmet info and this place seemed appropriate to mention it:
http://www.bhsi.org/helmet02.htm
scott
|
|
|
|
|
helmets
|
|
On 5/19/2002 longboardbuddha
wrote in from
(62.30.nnn.nnn)
my experience with full face downhill mtb and bmx helmets are that often the visor peak and or face guard shatter on high speed impact leaving shards of plastic in da face as the areas such as the visor peak and face protector are not reinforced...i saw this graphically displayed yesterday at an mtb race in cannock chase forest uk...the gentleman slammed on a big gravel slope head first snapping the face protector at the junction between the helmet and the protector...the offending shard then slipped between the helmet and the ear slicing it in half nearly...my advice when going for speed downhills is buy a half decent full face motorcycle helmet....
|
|
|
|
|
Higher Speed Helmets
|
|
On 5/17/2002
Dr Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Many on this list have suggested a "motocross" or BMX style helmet for higher speeds. These type of helmets, which have a front-piece to protect the face, prevent the spread of asphalt-chiclets upon impact. . . .
|
|
|
|
|
Which Helmet
|
|
On 5/17/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Snell is one of the strictest (best) ratings. Check to see what it is snell-rated to do.
One more thing: It looks like a ski helmet and might have a lot of padding for warmth, which might make a difference in where and when you slalom.
|
|
|
|
|
Helmets Which one
|
|
On 5/17/2002 David"MoonDoggie"Garcia
wrote in from
(199.123.nnn.nnn)
I posted this on the Slalom and Safety Equipment maybe this
the right place
Can Anyone tell if this a good helmet for Slalom and speeds
up to 35-40mph.It is Snellrated.
Thanks
http://www.prorider.com/pro/images/ski.jpg
|
|
|
|
|
Helmets
|
|
On 5/17/2002 Mercury News
wrote in from
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Helmet advocates looking out for kids
BILL TARGETS SKATEBOARDS, IN-LINE SKATES, SCOOTERS
By Dana Hull and Nicole C. Wong
Mercury News
Dude, where's your brain bucket?
Parents call them helmets, and if you're a California kid under 18 you may soon need one if you skateboard, ride a scooter or in-line skate.
The state Senate on Thursday approved the ``Youth Helmet Bill'' -- which carries a $25 fine -- on a 21-15 vote. It now moves to the Assembly, where supporters say they're confident it will pass.
If it does, and Gov. Gray Davis signs it into law, California will have the toughest helmet safety law for kids in the country.
Whether skateboarders will actually wear them as they're doing nose slides on the street is another matter. Many Bay Area skaters wear protective gear at local skate parks but don't like to when they're just riding in the neighborhood.
``If I don't see other people wearing it, I probably won't,'' said Chris Ruiz, 15, a freshman at Palo Alto High School, who added that he has a helmet but doesn't wear it while skateboarding to and from school.
Dominic Al-Shamari, 9, rides his bike, skateboard, in-line skates, scooter or go-cart every weekend with his friends. On Thursday, he checked out what he hopes will be his new bike at Black Diamond Sports, an extreme sporting goods store in downtown Palo Alto.
``I tell my friends, `Helmet' '' he said, pointing to his head and rolling his eyes to emphasize his support for head protection.
But across the store a video showed skateboarders skidding along ramps without helmets. ``If I was them I wouldn't do that,'' Dominic said. ``That is so dumb.''
Ian Barner, the store's manager, said more than half the people buying skateboards and in-line skates at the store also buy a helmet.
``It's the most important part of protective gear they can wear,'' Barner said. ``If they break their wrist, they can fix it. If you whack your head hard against the ground, that's it. You'll spend the rest of your life eating food out of a tube.''
The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission found that in 2000 there were 40,500 scooter-related injuries treated in the nation's emergency rooms. Nearly 85 percent of scooter injuries involved kids younger than 15. There were 16 deaths related to scooter use in 2001.
Skateboard injuries result in 50,000 emergency room visits and 1,500 hospitalizations among minors each year in the United States, according to a Senate analysis of the bill.
The measure, sponsored by Sen. Jack O'Connell, D-Santa Barbara, was inspired by a group of elementary school students from San Luis Obispo who wanted to do something after a third-grade classmate was hit by a car while riding her scooter. She was not wearing a helmet and was out of school for about two weeks.
``During a student council meeting, we realized that there was only a helmet law for bike riders,'' said Marisella Rodriguez, a student at Hawthorne Elementary School, in her letter to O'Connell. ``Our student council believes that there should also be a helmet law for scooters and skateboard riders, so children won't get hurt.''
Maryland and Rhode Island have helmet laws for children under 16 who ride scooters or in-line skate. New York and New Jersey laws apply only to children under 14. Twelve other states and the District of Columbia have helmet laws for bike riders only.
California's bike law requires anyone under age 18 to wear a helmet.
``Sixteen years ago I authored the bike helmet law, and we are trying to parallel that law today for skateboards, skaters and scooters,'' said O'Connell, whose 15-year-old daughter loves to in-line skate. ``The number of injuries are staggering. We have good law enforcement support, and we hope to get it to the governor's office this summer.''
|
|
|
|
|
John Gilmour - Helmet Lobbyist
|
|
On 5/17/2002
Dr Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Here's a thought. Anyone want to prepare a list of helmet mfgr's and high profile boardmakers (e.g., Turner) emails to have NCDSA'ers lobby? I agree with John, that motocross and other helmets don't meet the needs of boarders very well. And the fact that most skateboard helmets don't have Snell testing is insulting.
drD
|
|
|
|
|
Grand Mal
|
|
On 5/17/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Wes,
"Grand Mal" is now "tonic-clonic." More descriptive - not as French. . . . drD
|
|
|
|
|
