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| Q&A: Dr David Hartman on Head Injuries (824 Posts)
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Holy Cow! Grab the Bat-Helmet, Leo!
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On 6/21/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Leo,
The first question is: Do you really need the extra aerodynamics? Are you doing the kind of high speed racing where wings would speed you up? Or would they just provide extra cross-wind drag and or pull you up like the Flying Nun (Old TV allusion here). Maybe Bob will chime in here, but I'm not sure that an "add-on" wing would necessarily better the aerodynamics of a helmet, particularly, since the duct tape or velcro interface would probably catch the air, rather than deflect it.
Second question is: Adding anything with hard points or edges is risky. If it flies off easily, will it fly in your eye or stick in your chest? If it doesn't come off easily will it fulcrum your head and neck when it hits the ground?
Third question: How will you test it? Things that look aerodynamic may not be. The early Corvette Stingray comes to mind. Looks sleek, hits the air like a like a Brinks truck.
Finally, all that being said, best of luck on your tinkering. Some of the best things about this sport is that it seems to improve from people working in their garages. Let us know what you come up with.
drD
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No name helmet
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On 6/21/2002
Leo
wrote in from
(199.82.nnn.nnn)
i use a dot helmet made in china, its ehavier that the bieffe´s but cheaper too, i was thinking on making some fairings with fibreboard or plxeglass attached with duct tape so it can disengage if i fell.
dr do u think that this can be safe or legal?
mail me if u want or post it
leo
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Save Your Head Lobby
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On 6/20/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
OK people. While things are slow, we can use this list to look at helmets you use and how they protected you (or not). Feel free to name names. And if anyone wants to post email sites for the helmet makers we'd all appreciate it.
drD
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Aerodynamic hlemets
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On 6/17/2002
Mad Hack
wrote in from
(211.123.nnn.nnn)
Hi,
Thanks for the response. I realize there is a fairing in the front of the bike, I was just talking about the trailing edge of the helmet being possibly replaced with a fairing piece under the leathers. There probably are rules prohibiting the use of the helmets, but maybe that's a good thing. You speedboarders would know better what's necessary, I guess...
Scott
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Aerodynamic helmets
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On 6/17/2002
Antti S. Brax
wrote in from
(128.214.nnn.nnn)
I'll answer in speedboarding.
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Aerodynamic helmets
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On 6/16/2002
Mad Hack
wrote in from
(211.123.nnn.nnn)
Hi,
I was watching motorcycle track racing from Monza on TV yesterday. First of all, these guys are going up over 200 mph (I think they were talking up around 300kmh) and their helmets are round. I don't know at what speed aerodynamics become a factor, but it seems like the speeds those guys are travelling would qualify. Though their helmets are round, however, they do have a fairingshaped humpback under their leathers that meets up with their helmet when they are in their tucks. Downhill skiers use round helmets too, don't they? Does it hurt their speed? I don't think so. There are always other ways...
Scott
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Crash means Trash
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On 6/13/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Mike,
Bob's got it right. If it's big enough to be called a crash, trash the helmet and either send it to the mfgr for replacement if they have such a policy, or get a new one. The foam is designed to compress so your skull won't have to and the foam core doesn't 'reset' itself.
Look, if you skid off the board, do a controlled slide into the ground and along with several pads, land with the helmet on the ground, it may not qualify as a crash. But if it's a 'how did I get down here?' crash Don't think twice, get a fresh helmet.
drD
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One Crash
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On 6/13/2002
Bob
wrote in from
(68.50.nnn.nnn)
Typical Statement made by all helmet manufactuers ( THis one is from Shoei)
Is a crashed / dropped helmet still safe to wear?
Current safety helmets are designed to absorb the energy of an accident by being destroyed. Even a small impact can damage the integrity of the shell or EPS liner. Quite often this damage may be unnoticeable to the untrained eye. Therefore, any helmet involved in an impact should not be used again or sent to the manufacturer for inspection.
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One Crash
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On 6/13/2002
Mike
wrote in from
(208.187.nnn.nnn)
Hey Dr Dave, just a quick question. A helment is good for one crash, then its time for a new one, right?
Thanks
-Mike
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I Left My Face in San Francisco: Helmet Choices
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On 6/12/2002
Dr Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Henry,
For racing, there's a big difference, and you would want to look into a helmet with a faceplate. There is no "official" skateboard standard, but you want a helmet that provides good coverage for both the back of your head and forehead. Some bike helmets are OK, but many have that weird lame little aerodynamic point on the back. If you fall backwards and land on that, think of twisting around on a fulcrum and what will happen to your neck.
So, bottom line: Choose a helmet by speed, shape and rating (Snell or CPSC).
drD
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Bike Helmet vs. Skateboard Helmet
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On 6/12/2002
Henry J
wrote in from
(68.63.nnn.nnn)
Doc-
I've got a nice Bell helmet that I use for mountain biking (it's my other hobby/passion.) Is there any difference between skateboard helmets and those designed for cycling? Besides the cool factor, I want to know if there is any need for me to buy a seperate helmet for slalom.
Thanks,
Henry J
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Freedom to Damage your Brain
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On 6/11/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Scabs,
Care to send in a couple of e-mail addresses for relevant people in Florida who draft or review these laws? Source of the statistic of increased BD? We have a lot of concerned people here who might want to send a note.
drD
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Brane Bukkeds
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On 6/10/2002
Scabs
wrote in from
(66.21.nnn.nnn)
One of the first laws knocked off the books by our latest govenor of Florida (Jeb Bush) was the law of mandatory helmets for motorcyclists. Since the law was removed, motorcyclists deaths have risen over 40%.
On the otherside, we also have a mandatory seatbelt law. It can only be enforced when another law is commited. (secondary offense) Last holiday the govenor allwoed cops to stop and ticket offenders without any other initial offense. The 3 day holiday had one of the lowest death rates in history so it conceived that the occaissional stops had a great effect. More likely just a coincedence. The local yocals are still pulling drivers over and citing tickets even though no other offense has been commited and this is in itself, is against the law. Thier belief is that even though the tickets will be thrown out in court, it will A) cause more drivers to buckle up. or B) generate revenue from those who can`t afford the lost time to go to court to fight the offense. (a $25 non-moving violation)
Now don`t get me wrong about seatbelt use as it is mandatory for riders in my vehicle, law or not. My point is what about the 40% increase in motorcyclist deaths? Where are the commissioners of common sense?
Maybe we need more folks out there that can no longer spell Brain or Bucket?....NOT!
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PsychOLloyd's Boy Scout Troop
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On 6/10/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Good ideas all, but all I can say is that PsychoLloyd would have to re-write the Boyscout manual for being prepared. . . His equipment belt must be the talk of the town. . . .
More seriously, I would add to his suggestions by adding either a first aid course or reading an up-to-date first aid manual. Things like tourniquets, if improperly applied, can cause funny things like loss of limbs, etc.
drD
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Don't forget your rain coat...
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On 6/7/2002
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
My one addition to your first aid kit is a pack of condoms. These things can serve so many purposes that I doubt if I can list them all. So here goes:
1.) for its intended purpose (better safe than sorry)
2.) as a container to transport water (these puppies hold a lot)
3.) makes a good bladder for ice or cool water enclosed in a T-shirt
4.) it's a great tourniquet
5.) they can even be used as an elastic cord
6.) it can be used as a temporary wound covering on fingers and toes though they can stretch to cover part of the arm or leg
7.) think about inflating one as a pillow or to provide for elevation
8.) as a sterile sample container
...and the list goes on.
Oh, and another thing to keep around just in case:
A feminine pad or two, because they are good for sopping up liquids such as excessive sweat or bleeding (go figure).
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Speeling
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On 6/7/2002 bob swartz
wrote in from
(132.250.nnn.nnn)
PS. Sorry but I have never been know for my speeling skills. I wished the message board has a spell checker. I will start to cut and paste from my WP in the future.
bob
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First Aid
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On 6/7/2002
Bob Swartz
wrote in from
(132.250.nnn.nnn)
Hi Scabs. The short answer is to be prepared, you need to take a boyscout and a cellphone with the correct emergency phone numbers for your location.
I get lots of real life stories. Here is one to share with you to make my point, then I will start my rant.
Several experienced skaters (with leathers and helmets)and a new guy (ages 18 to 45)were gathering on a local, no traffic,practice hill for a riding session. While they were waiting fo everyone to arrive, standing around BS'ing,skating around the truck and about to suit up, one of the guy's boards shot out from under him and he landed full impact on the back of his head. He muttered a few syallabals and blacked out with a trickle of blood coming out ear and nose.Everyone immediatly FREAKED OUT, jumped up and down, paced around and had no idea what to do. After a few minutes of paniced yelling and screaming one of the guys ran to a house about a 1/2 mile away to phone for and ambulance no first aid was administered. At least one of the other guys got sick. Mean while everyone stood around trying to figure out what to do. The ambulance arrived 15 minutes later and after a few month of recoup the guy lives to tell his story.He was lucky.. real lucky.
I use this story to illustrate the scary fact that few people in the USA have a clue about first aid or handling an emergency. in most cases the only people that have a clue are ones that have made it a profession, or the boy or girl scouts. Although alot of first aid is common sense, it must be practiced in a class because few people are able to find thier common sense in an emergency situation. I was lucky I received my training in the scouts. We had a very active first aid program, enough so, that we were called to help stage accidents and grade the emergency response crews. We were taught to do first aid McGuyver Style, meaning to use whatever is commonly available to administer first aid and it has paid off many times.
Eeek!!! I have to cut this short. I am at work.
Here is the suggestion for all that participate in "Risky Behavior" haha
1. Education: You and your friends signup and attend a "FREE" Red Cross First Aid and CPR course.If you skate with a regular group, attend as a group. Training as a team is much better.
2. Communications: WHo has the cellphone?? Do you know who to call in the area you are skating? Remeber 911 service sucks big on a cell phone especially if your hurt out of town. Find the number for emergency response in the area you plan to skate.
3. Have a plan: Ask yourself, if someone gets hurt where is the emergency room, who is going to call if needed, who is going to drive, do you know the injured's "incase of emergency person" phone number.
4. First Aid Equipment: I was trained to use what I have so this isn't fair. If you have clean cloth, duct tape, rope and a knife you can do just about anything. If you would like to be better prepaired make up a tool box with a hiking or marine first aid kit (real cheap in local drug store). Large sterile gauss pads (8 or 6") you can always make it smaller. Ace Bandage,arm sling (for you standup lugers...just kidding), a chemical cold pack, duct tape and a first aid book with CPR instruction for when you loose your mind. If you can afford to get fancy include an air splint for leg and arm.
As far as a backboard and neck support goes... if you have not been trained for this it is best to treat for shock and bleeding and leave the injured in the position found until the professionals arrive. On more than one occassion I have had to duct tape a person (in various postions)to a streetluge (go-fast backboard) and have friends hoist the injured across the top of the seats in my van for the trip to the hospital.
Too some it up: Everyone needs to take a class. Encourage your buddies also. You could be the next one injured and who gonna care for you.
Fact: if you are prepared and feel relaxed and comfortable you will always skate faster and have more fun.
sorry for the ranting
bob
(PS.. Oh by the way. I am in a cast for 12 weeks arggg..)
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Preventing Scabs
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On 6/7/2002
Dave H.
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Just to temporarily interrupt a very interesting thread, the best equipment for a weekend warrior practicing should be a good helmet, pads everywhere there's a joint, wrist guards and probably most importantly, a cell phone that can dial 911.
drD
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first aid
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On 6/6/2002
Scabs
wrote in from
(66.21.nnn.nnn)
Bob Swartz,
Your post got me to thinking. Usually the worst I normally see is minor scrapes and bruises. I am by no means even remotely qualified to play doctor but in my truck I always carry large gauze bandages along with cleaning agents and since I carry a cooler with drinks,,,ice too. Having seen a worker on a construction site fall through a open staircase and land on his head, I or we watched as he layed there convulsing. In hindsight, we probably should`ve mobilized him so he wouldn`t add more injury to himself. Needless to say, he`ll never be the same again but my point is I never thought about a backboard or restraint system. It could be as simple as a sheet of plywood and old belts. Maybe a pillow to support the neck area.
What would your recommendations be for the weekend warrior who is just on a hill practicing and can`t afford to have a paid EMT on hand all the time?
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RN stands for "really nice"
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On 6/6/2002
Sharon
wrote in from
(204.134.nnn.nnn)
To Clarify: I never play doctor. I'm a Registered Nurse and I love my job! My profession is lucrative, stressful, rewarding and allows a flexible schedule so I can go to lotsa' skate events. When I'm on vacation all I want to do is skate! Wanted to post my pennies....Thanks Dr. Dave and Bob for your response. Ciao' for now...
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Medic Team
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On 6/6/2002
Bob Swartz
wrote in from
(132.250.nnn.nnn)
Sharon, In the old days( a few years ago) you may have seen a few competitors double as the medic response team,( as many of the competitors are EMTs or Emergency room techs themselves) but for all of the events I attend or organize we always hire the medical crew.(in the east most work for donations).
We have had to learn the hard way on how to specify the medical response crew. Races have been suspended because the crew also drove the ambulance and they all left to go to the hospitol. We now, in general, specify an EMT with complete kit to include oxygen, backboard and head restraint system. This person is paid to stay on site for all practice and racing. An ambulance can be on call as long as the response time is less than 15 minutes otherwise have one on site. Also, please do not forget your med team. Make sure you talk to them, and offer some food water and maybe a t-shirt. In most cases thier job is extremely boring sitting around just waiting. I have seen to many cases of them falling asleep, taking to long a lunch break in town or trying to leave before the event was over. They are people to so include them in a little of the fun and hospitality. Who knows they may do the job for free the next time like they did in Ansted West Virginia. They had so much fun that all 10 of the county emergency response vehicles, the EMT's and verticle rescue crew also worked as course workers and were happy just to have the front row seat to the action.
Now, it is pretty cool to have a few extra people around that are qualified in emergency care (competitors). The larger organizations should have a substantial medical kit as backup also. This is cool for the times an organizer or a group of racers want to continue the day with a few fun runs (non-competitive). The organizer may declare event is over, ride at own risk and the fun continues. (I hate traveling around the world to an event and seeing the closed road remain unused with 4 hours left on the permit... Be prepared and you can often safely extend the fun.
bob
PS stay tuned fo my rant about being prepared for emergencies during your practice and fun sessions.
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Sharon Plays Doctor
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On 6/5/2002
Dave H.
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Sharon,
If I understand your question, you can't. :-) Play doctor or skater for any given race, but not both. If you were skating, you wouldn't want your doc to be preoccupied with whether they tripped the clock within that .001 of a second, as opposed to setting your dislocated shoulder or checking you for concussion.
drD
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Medical Staff for the Races
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On 6/5/2002
Sharon
wrote in from
(68.35.nnn.nnn)
Hi Dr. Dave!
First time on your forum and want to throw you a question:
How can one maintain a competitive zone during race time when they are needed to be medical staff on duty?
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Speed helmets
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On 6/5/2002 Duane
wrote in from
(68.15.nnn.nnn)
I agree with Bob 100%. It is a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt, wearing a rigid helmet designed for aero, safety be damned. Doc Gofast helmets are bad, Landingham worse. I also call into question the very design, I really don't think they are very aero at all, given the price and so-called "development" that went into them. The huge trailing edges of these things are terrible for safety, and not very good for aero, if it can catch the ground it sure catches the air (creating a huge low pressure zone right behind that edge). My crack-pot alternative: a soft, stretchy upper-body speedsuit, covering regular snell-approved helmet and leathers, which is taut between the leading edge of the head and the shoulders, no gaps, no danger, comfy.
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PsychoLloyd's Lucky Break Slide Gloves. . .?
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On 6/4/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Alan,
Good going! As Bob said earlier, the best innovations come from people in the sport. It's great you're taking up the challenge.
After you have a design and maybe a prototype, talk to an attorney about getting a patent. Seriously. Then maybe a local mfgr can whip up a bunch. I bet that some of distributors who advertise here would be interested.
And you'll need a catchy name for the product. Any ideas from readers of this list?
drD
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