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| Cyber Slalom (186 Posts)
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Photo?
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On 9/5/2003
Jonathan Harms
wrote in from
(165.134.nnn.nnn)
OK, I'm trying a new image-hosting site. Let's see if this photo will stay up. This is from the first cyber session that Jeff Goad and I did in July 2003. It was really hot that day, hence the light clothing. I guess one of the consequences of having an area big enough to actually do cyber slalom is that it almost has to be out in the open somewhere. On this day, oddly enough, I was faster on 85A Avalons than I was on the 92A/88A Flashbacks I'm riding in this photo. But by the time I switched to the green wheels, I was pretty tired. Anyway, here goes. Please let this work...
JBH, July 2003, Maryland Heights, MO--photo by Jeff Goad
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Official Clean Start
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On 7/28/2003
Steve in AZ, once in Gaithersburg
wrote in from
(130.13.nnn.nnn)
The box is 3' x 3'.
The board must pass between the two front corners of the box for a legal start (as well as pass between the two 3' cones at the end).
You can push and pull the board under your foot at the start line as much as you want, provided:
1. The front wheels of your board do not pass the front line...well, they can, but you'll just start the timer too soon and end up with a slower time. Duh.
2. Your first push must be made with your push foot ENTIRELY inside the 3 x 3' box.
Thinking about having a CSDD (CYBER-SLALOM DESERT DUEL) sometime in Ocober here in Phoenix/Scottsdale. Interested?
-=S=-
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Duh
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On 7/28/2003
JBH
wrote in from
(207.150.nnn.nnn)
Once again I demonstrate my limited knowledge of how to post an image.
If you go to http://public.fotki.com/harmsjb/miscellaneous/section.html
you'll see what I was trying to post. Nothing kills a joke like having to explain why it should have been funny. Back to the drawing board...
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Geography lesson
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On 7/28/2003
Jonathan Harms
wrote in from
(207.150.nnn.nnn)
Mississippi? You must have gotten us confused with Ricky Byrd. Hint: We're from the state with the red border. :-)
Regarding W.Va., we'll have to wait and see if any of this cyber slalom practice has paid off. I hope so, cuz it hurts! We did it again on Saturday: Goad took a "superman" dive (like Smokestack at Paris), and I pushed it enough that now my back AND legs hurt! Anybody else find a few new muscle aches after doing the CS?
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The Start
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On 7/28/2003
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
(161.114.nnn.nnn)
No, the start box is where you have to START pushing from.
You are allowed to push as many times and as far as you want. The best racers push past the 1st cone and are on the board fully by the 2nd cone. "There is no 1st cone!"-- as one of the best has said.
-- Pat
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The Start?
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On 7/28/2003
Marc
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Ok , when starting , you can only push while your inside the box? Are these the new rules? I'm confused
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Mississippi Skaters (Goad & Crew)
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On 7/24/2003 lbk
wrote in from
(171.75.nnn.nnn)
Oh I see, if you keep up that Cyber Slalom #@$ and I'm going to have to start practicing to beat you guys at the next WV Race.
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First time
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On 7/21/2003
Jonathan Harms
wrote in from
(165.134.nnn.nnn)
Did cyberslalom (with Jeff Goad) for the first time yesterday, complete with Tway timer, video camera, the whole nine yards--or should I say the whole 174 feet? We skated for about 3 hours, including wheel changes, in 90+ heat and humidity conditions. Legs feel fine, headache is gone now, but my lower back still feels like it was beaten with a bag full of Avalons--90A, probably.
We set up our course on an asphalt basketball court in a city park. We ran it diagonally, but even so, we only had about 20 feet of runout after the finish line--not even enough room to footbrake. So, for the first couple of hours we were doing the jump-off-and-run method of stopping. Goad was the first to chuck that in favor of just riding into the grass--good idea.
The surface was very flat and level, and the (unsealed) asphalt quality was maybe 7 out of 10--decent, but not as smooth as our usual practice spot. Would love to try it on a good concrete surface someday.
I rode my Pocket Pistol TS/Hybrid, 18 1/2" wheelbase, Tracker RT-S offset (O'Shei) rear, RT-X front baseplate with an old Thunder freestyle hanger (it fits, and my other hanger is getting the Geezer-X treatment). 85A Avalons all around, trimmed front, full rear, Bones Swiss bearings. That pretty much covers it, unless someone wants to get into the whole boxers/briefs issue.
Also tried my Quicksilver/small pivot Fultrack setup with Cambrias, but it didn't feel as good. I'll let Goad tell you what worked best for him; it was kind of a surprise. Also, surprisingly, I didn't notice any time difference when I switched over to a 92/88 Flashback combo. But I was getting tired by then, so it may be worth another try. We plan to set up the same course next weekend and tweak our setups a bit in the meantime.
Anyway, we both had a great time, and from the video we definitely got some ideas for improvement. Our best times were really close, and we both improved pretty quickly. From here on, though, I think those extra tenths are going to be hard to shave. Michael, Vlad, Gary et al., you guys are aminals! :-)
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wheelbase and start speed
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On 7/21/2003
Michael Dong
wrote in from
(213.121.nnn.nnn)
Dave,
I found that as my starts got faster and faster, it allowed me to run a longer wheelbase. Its always easier to turn once you are up to speed. When you first increase your wheelbase, loosen up your trucks a tad at first. As you get used to the longer wheelbase, tighten the trucks bit by bit until you reach that magic point where your trucks are just loose enough so that you can comfortably negotiate all cones, but tight enough to get some rebound to help you bounce out of the turns.
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Cyber setup/wheelbase etc.
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On 7/20/2003 Dave
wrote in from
(67.2.nnn.nnn)
I am now running 19" wheelbase in order to make 6' cones.
As I improve would 20" be better? The rest of my setup is,
Turner fatboy/PP Indy's 115 and trimed Avalons 80/85.
Thanks
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Cone processing
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On 7/19/2003
Michael Dong
wrote in from
(213.121.nnn.nnn)
Pierre,
That is cool that you guys have a website to record your times. After each cyber session, I run the course a few times with lots of push just for the "cone processing" exercise. It is good practice.
However, I find that I get MUCH more out of using the full cyberslalom rules. The short 15ft push teaches me to settle my feet quickly and develop a powerful push start. The short push also forces you to develop a powerful starting pump. If you follow F1, Michael Schumacher gains time on his opponents not only from being the best on-track driver, but he has this uncanny ability to do fast out laps directly after pitting. This is analogous to slalom racing in that you want to get up to "terminal velocity" as fast as possible in any slalom race. This can be the difference between winning or losing against a racer of equal skill and speed. If you can get a faster "out lap" (first 5 cones) you will have that extra edge. Cyberslalom is the way to get that extra edge.
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cyber, tight, hybrid board
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On 7/19/2003
Michael Dong
wrote in from
(213.121.nnn.nnn)
Geez,
I have been using one board for everything - my Roe medium-flex Bullet. For REALLY tight stuff (Vlad tight) I will be using a Crossfire.
I like your Crossfire setup for tight. Should eat em up.
For cyber (or every course for that matter) I want to use the longest wheelbase, largest diameter wheels possible. You can "feel" the delay in turning when using an Avila in Cyber. I have run Avilas in Cyber but always at least 0.1 sec slower than my trusty Flashbacks.
I will be running a Crossfire with PVDs at Da Farm for the tight.
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Cyber History
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On 7/18/2003
Michael Dong
wrote in from
(213.121.nnn.nnn)
Very cool Adam!
The other cool bit of information to go along with this would be the "comment" section where board setup and other misc info is recorded.
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Site update
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On 7/18/2003
Adam
wrote in from
(66.121.nnn.nnn)
We've just upgraded the Cyber Slalom Challenge page to display a history of each rider's times via a popup window next to their time. Look for the table column titled "History" (the "Avg MPH" column is gone as it was pretty worthless).
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Champ
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On 7/18/2003
Adam
wrote in from
(66.121.nnn.nnn)
"It would be really cool if there was a record of posted times so a person could follow their progression. I have a bunch written down but not all."
Every time ever posted to the Cyber Slalom page is still in our database and it will be a simple matter to create a link to show the history.. great idea, Michael!
And thanks for the info on your setup.. you're a true gentleman to volunteer even part of your methods in this competitive event.
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Trucks, Pads and Chaput
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On 7/18/2003
Michael Dong
wrote in from
(81.131.nnn.nnn)
Adam,
I was using PVD R2's with 45deg front plates and 35 degree rear plates (I think standard trucks have a 40deg steering angle so using 5 deg wedges in opposite directions would do it – Seismics come stock with a 45 deg angle). I keep my front trucks looser than the rears and also use a softer durometer bushing in the front. I set my trucks as tight as I possibly can and still make the rounder slower turns during the first 5 cones. This way I get as much rebound from the bushings as possible and I am still able to make the turns with some room for error. My axle-to-axle wheelbase is/was 24”, but the board I was riding was quite soft. The soft board allowed for steeper truck steering angles when flexed to the max. I will soon try a stiffer board and just loosen up the trucks and see how it goes.
Riser Pads: Funny, but the only reason I have high riser pads is because I needed enough clearance for the larger 70mm flashback wheels. I used about 5/8” riders with wheel wells on the board, so if I had a flat board with no wheel wheels, I would probably up that to 1”. I really can’t say if I feel a decrease in edge-to-edge speed since I have always used lots of risers, but I hear Luca’s 100 cone world record (avg of 5 cones/sec) was done on a “high-rise” deck.
Taking a little except from a previous email I sent:
“I still remember May of 2002 seeing the picture of Chaput holding up the cyber trophy and thinking to myself "I would love to be holding that next year". I remember my fastest time my first day of trying cyberslalom - something like 10.25. The possiblility of holding the trophy seemed mighty dim. I think the main reason that I was able to sucessfully make the jump from open class to pro class this year is because of the conditioning and development of pumping skills from practicing cyberslalom.”
I started slaloming in February of 2002 when I got a call from my old teammate (in the 70’s) Gareth Roe saying that he was making slalom boards and that I should come give it a try. I think it was in May of 2002 after seeing Chaput’s picture that I tried my first Cyberslalom run.
It would be really cool if there was a record of posted times so a person could follow their progression. I have a bunch written down but not all.
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The other cyber
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On 7/17/2003
Pierre
wrote in from
(24.200.nnn.nnn)
I've been doing the cyber at the Riderz web site;
40 cones 6ft oc, unlimited push time starts from center or 1st cone and ends at the center of the last. My best time is 8.90 I think a lot of you guys here can beat that, i'm 1st place at the moment.
http://riderz.macbidouille.com/viewtopic.php?t=2918
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PVD set up
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On 7/17/2003
Geezer-X
wrote in from
(149.2.nnn.nnn)
Hey Michael. I've settled on the following setup. Woodcore Crossfire, R2s 50 deg. 84a front / 30 deg 92a rear, 1/2" risers. Typically I run cut Avalons in 90a f 85a r. This seems a good compromise between grip and speed, and slides are really predictable. What do you usually use for Cyber / tight / hybrid?
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Truck adjustments
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On 7/16/2003
Adam
wrote in from
(66.121.nnn.nnn)
Michael,
I saw you were using PVD trucks at the G3. What are your thoughts on truck settings? Loose, med, tight? You and Vlad semed to have very turny boards.
I'd also be interested in your thoughts on riser pads. Do you feel the added turning leverage that risers can provide outweighs their slower edge-to-edge speed?
Finally, I'd be interested in how long it took you to reach your current level of achievment. I know you entered quite a few updates to your Cyber Slalom time, each bettering the last, until you topped (and continue to top) the heap.
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toe stop/pushes/wheels
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On 7/16/2003
Michael Dong
wrote in from
(81.131.nnn.nnn)
Thanks mb.
I used a toe stop from www.tnrdesigns.com. They have greatly improved the design since then and it has a really nice adjustment system and the shape allows you to step off without getting your foot caught.
I use three short, quick pushes. Vlad actually did a 4 push start at least once at the Gathering.
I used my all-time favorite slalom wheels, ABEC11 Flashbacks, 88 on the rear, and 92 on the front. These duros are pretty hard. 84 on the rear and 88 on the front is a better place to start for most. The nicer the surface, the harder the wheels you can use.
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11 seconds
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On 7/16/2003
Michael Dong
wrote in from
(81.131.nnn.nnn)
Your starting speed is critial to achieve a fast run.
On your push start, try to use 2 or 3 short quick pushes rather than 1 or 2 long pushes. Which side you enter the cones on will help you to get in 3 pushes.
My general rule for which side you enter the cones on:
Right side entry:
Goofy/Non-Mongo pushers or Regular Foot/Mongo Pushers
Left side entry for Goofy/Mongo push or Regular/Non-mongo push
(for newbies, Goofy means you have your right foot on the front of the board when riding, Regular you have your left foot forward while riding. Mongo means your push foot is the same foot that you have on the front of your board while riding, Regular or non-mongo means your push foot is the same foot that your have on the rear of your board while riding).
The reason for this is that it puts your center of gravity closest to the cone-line and you can literally step over the first cone.
For the first 5 cones, make your turns big and round, with very bent knees and stay low to the ground.
As you progress down the course, slowly stand up from this low position.
Don't stop pumping after the last cone, pump through the finish.
This should get you to 11 seconds in a few sessions.
Michael
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cyber questions
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On 7/15/2003 mb
wrote in from
(172.155.nnn.nnn)
Michael Dong,
Congrats on winning the Cybercup this year.
What kind of toe stop did you have @ G3? Are you still using one?
You get three pushes in before the first cone, correct?
What were the duros on the Flashbacks you used at G3?
Thanks.
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practice practice practice
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On 7/15/2003
Chris B
wrote in from
(68.60.nnn.nnn)
i am....twice a week...two hours at a time....run after run after run....adn i can still barely beat 12 seconds adn do it clean...i have no idea how you guys get up that kind of speed with just two kicks off the starting line...you can say "pump" all ya want, but it's hard to get a rythem going that fast!....hats off to ya...my goal is 11 seconds by the end of this season though...but 8 seconds Mike?.....I may have to make G-IV just to see you guys hit it that fast....
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we don't...but
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On 7/15/2003 Gary H.
wrote in from
(17.219.nnn.nnn)
We don't but your record time is going to get beat : )
I'll plan on hosting an event here in NorCal to see were we stand on this event. Give me a week or so to pick a date and then we can all try and better our old times (from well over a year and one half ago).
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Let the games begin
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On 7/15/2003
Michael Dong
wrote in from
(213.121.nnn.nnn)
So who is practicing cyberslalom these days?
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