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| Q&A: McKendry on Speed (1810 Posts)
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6-wheelers
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On 7/15/2005 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
Patrick, even though this IS C.C.'s spot on NCDSA, I've got to tell you a few things I know about 6-wheeler set-ups. Chris may have alternative ideas in the works, so consider my opinions as 'amatuer', but with 27 years of tinkering tossed in there.
Wheelbases on six-wheelers need to have a bit of difference in angles between the foremost truck and the rear/middle truck. This can be done by either a 'slight' wedge difference (1*-2* is enough) or by carefully selecting your bushings in height/stiffness, so that a slight variable in angles or turning resistance is created that makes the foremost truck has a steeper turn ratio.
Rear trucks need to compliment the entire setup. The ride height overall is dictated by this truck's set-up. I recommend that you keep the rear-most truck a 'lesser steering' type of truck, but set-up so that when it leans, it dosen't dramatically change it's ride height. If it changes ride height by board flex, or by altercation of it's axle-to-deck distance, the front truck axles will have varying loads imposed on them, possibly leading to wobbles or worse, wheel-to-wheel rub. By example, Tracker's Axis is a good rear-truck choice in it's turning predictability.
So turn angles count in the overall stability of the board, but the 'bulk' of the steering effort is directed up front, over the 'middle' truck. The foremost truck carries a 'lighter' load with low-cambered or solid decks. Picking bushings that are very similar, but have slight differences in either durometer or ride height for those front trucks is kind of important.
Wheel sizing is important, so be consistent here. IF you go with bigger/smaller wheels, be sure that differential is on the REAR truck. The 4 front wheels should be as similar in size as possible. Front wheels can up to 6-8 A-shore points harder, because they'll have more than enough contact to obtain grip.
Lastly, do NOT use a flexible deck, nor should you use a board with pronouced Camber. The Exception would be if you build a Luge, where you can have an 'active' flex for the rear truck, but you'd still want massive stability up front (2/3rds weight bias without footpegs, more with pegs). You'll note that C.C.'s DH board is rather rigidly made in regards to the front and looks pretty hefty through the main deck as well. There's likely a good reason for this...
One cool item I've discovered with using 6-wheelers is that 'wobbles' don't occur as easily, especially over unexpected obstacles such as manhole covers or little potholes. Wobbles can and do occur, they just aren't as severe or irrecoverable. Back in the day, wheels that self destructed at speed (thanks to RollerSkate construction) was a legit concern, and having two healthy axles worth of wheels under you when things went Gaa-Gaa was a Nice Thing to have. It's less of a concern now, as in the last 8 years, we've seen a nice assortment of wheels that don't just peel off the cores at double-nickle speeds, but a 6-wheeler can provide a bit of extra self-preservation on certain hills.
You'll likely have to build your own board, and as such, I heartily invite you to look at going "Burly" with the construction, doing what you can to take flex and torsional weakness out of the equation. Good luck with it!
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6 wheel speedboards
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On 7/15/2005
patrick
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
Chris
First I wanna just say that I am amazed with your results at Mary Hill. Congratulations. I also wanted to know how I might go about setting up a six wheel board. Do you have any prototypes for sale? I currently ride a 42 big red x with 83mm 72a flywheels and I love it to death. The board you had at MaryHill looked disgusting. I would love to add a board like it to my quiver, any ideas suggestions would be put to use so fire away. I love that you went there on untested equipment on a hill you had never been to and blew them away. You the man.
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Pink
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On 7/13/2005
Isabelle
wrote in from
United States
(68.7.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
I'm running AllGirlDownhill/Slalom clinics down here in SD AND my high school skate clubbers haved asked me multiple times............WHAT'S UP WITH PINK?
Hope you're getting your share of speed lately.......
As for us, the surf's been good, and we've great weather for pools/downhill skating - we're fat 'n happy!
Hope to hear form you soon,
Peace
Iz
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Slide Board
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On 7/11/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Brad, Thanks for the props. You might want to try a smaller overall setup when for sliding. If you had a medium length board with R-II 150s and 92a Flashbacks, you could learn to lean over from a higher platform, and also practice standing slides with greater ease. With about 1/4" riser and wheel-wells, you won't need big cutouts.
Other good medium sized wheels include 65mm NO SkoolZ in 92a and 66mm Strikers in 88a. Later you can always go to the bigger 76mm, 77mm, 83mm, 90mm, or even 97mm wheels on a dropped deck.
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Make it break it
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On 7/11/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(155.229.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
One more question regarding sliding. I am skating on an Evo which I think I will be using when I hit the bigger hills. It is quite heavy, being 11 ply. Do you think, as far as learning, that the weight of the board affects how easy it slides. I was thinkg of getting a lighter shorter board, which I thought might provide less resistance to sliding. But then the inertia of the heavier board of course is greater which I assume would affect the slide.
As an added note, with my very short arms, I wasn't able to just put my backside glove down until I used a dropped board which gets me really close to the ground.
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Make it break it
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On 7/11/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(155.229.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
Thanks for taking the time not only to answer my question, but to respond with such detailed advice. I, probably like a lot of skaters, have been working on my slide for a long time, twice getting close and twice giving it up, and now back at it again, but I know that the slide is the key to safety and control on serious hills, and, at least for me, the major skill I want to master before hitting the serious mountain grades and turns(which is why this is an appropriate topic on a downhill forum).
The exercises sound excellent and the part about using the gentle hill for these exercises will, I believe, be a big help, as the grade of the hill I have been practicing on does not allow me to make more than one attempt before reaching the bottom of the hill(read city street). From your note, it sounds like I should switch back from the Yupees, which I thought would help, to the 90a's I had or back to Green Goonies, which I always skate with. My 83a Flashbacks are a little too soft, I think, for learning to slide. As I always skate with green goonies, perhaps you could suggest the best one for skaters learning to slide. I was thinking of the 88a Strikers.
As someone learning, I would suggest to all those bombers out there to stop and learn to slide. The Crashes forum is full of horror tales about reckless skaters.
I was pleased to see the suggesting about carving drills while learning to slide. if this rain ever stops, I will let you know how these exercises worked. What I want to do, is to follow your directions quite explicitly, as if I were in a class, and so that I may provide specific feedback.
Your attention to minute detail as to what elements provide what effect was given a excellent test at Maryhill. Unfortunately, the forum conversations online were not about how your wheel and board configuration played a role in speed, grip, and turning, which is really the most interesting part of the results of the race. I agree with Cliff that there is no racer really close to your abilities in so many areas of skateboarding. Anyone whose seen those crazy videos on your site doing freestyle and sliding along with always top placing in all the slalom and downhill is really amazing!!! I think your name is the only one I see at the top of both slalom and downhill categories in race results, but I am still waiting to see the board you design for the skating-on-your-head downhill.
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Dosche Video
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On 7/11/2005
Casey
wrote in from
United States
(63.224.nnn.nnn)
Allright, here's the clip of that hill in Portland. It's actually a bit longer than it starts and ends in the clip and there are a lot of different options of ways to do it. The first section is a mellow 25-30mph cruise, then there's the stop sign and usually we go right and do a steep 35-40mph stretch. If you go a different way at the stop sign you can push for about a mile and then do a long mellow 30 minute cruise all the way to downtown(10-20mph).-----> http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Dosche-1 <----- Hope you enjoy it!
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Video2
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On 7/11/2005
Casey
wrote in from
United States
(63.224.nnn.nnn)
Awesome! How long is that hill? Looked like you got going close to 40, though it's hard to tell. I'll put something together soon with this 4 minute hill in Portland for ya.
Mr Chaput, just curious - I have a shortboard with Gumballs, but I cruise with all my longboarding friends, do you know if sliding works on a board like this?
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Video
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On 7/10/2005
Casey
wrote in from
United States
(63.224.nnn.nnn)
Damn, that last link is to the first video. I'll come back later and see if you've got it up.
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Sliding 101
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On 7/10/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
That was a nice video Dennis - thanks.
Brad, I'm starting from the very beginning, as if you just got a pair of slide gloves and a board. A common problem with riders who are new to speedboarding, is that they overtighten their trucks from the beginning. As a result, they never really learn how their board carves and corners at low speeds. I suggest that at the beginning, all riding should done on loose trucks, and at low to medium-low speeds. If you've never put a glove down, you should take things one step at a time. I'm saying start slowly, carve a turn and put the glove down. Keep carving harder while skimming or weighting the glove hand, until you stop dead in your tracks. This can be done on flat ground, in a wide open space, or on a hill. You may end up facing downhill, to the side, or uphill. It's just the firt step in getting to know your equipment, without getting hurt.
Here's another really good drill to do on a gentle hill. Face somewhat forward in a low a crouch, do a brief heelside turn and skim the inside puck while grabbing the outside rail. Don't turn that much - just enough to "skim, grab and recover". Now immediately lean over into a toeside turn, grab the other rail and skim the other glove. It's a bit awkward at first, kind of like a catcher in baseball not wanting to go flat footed or be on the balls of his feet. But it allows you do dozens of mini slides in a short amount of time and distance. Bombing a hill may only give you 3 or 4 technical turns per run. Here you get tons.
There three basic positions you're going to find yourself in:
1. Standing straight up (carving or airbraking)
2. In a tuck (head first, arms behind you)
3. In a slide (puck down, perhaps grabbing a rail)
You want to be able to quickly and smoothly transition from any one of these positions to another. Going from a tuck to standing up, or from standing up to a tuck is pretty easy. It's tuck-to-slide, stand-to-slide, slide-to tuck, and slide-to-stand transitions that can get tricky, especially if you have to throw a foot-brake somwhere in the mix.
There's also a kind of "no man's land" squat that is really unstable. It's when a corner is too scary to stay tucked, but not tight enough to warrant sliding the turn. If you get squirrelly while carving in a deep knee bend squat, you're hosed.
Anyway, what I'm saying is, have fun on your speedboard and get comfortable with loose trucks. Make sure that you have big cutouts and/or the clearance for big wheels and loose trucks. Pump the board, carve the board, and then practice carving with puck down. Carve so hard that you stop. Start forcing the board around sooner to induce a slide and slide to a stop. Knowing how a loose board with sticky wheels handles is a building block toward tighter trucks and higher speeds. But you have to learn to crawl before you learn to run. You gotta be willing to slide more and practice more, when you may think that it's more thrilling to bomb the hill. The problem is that NOTHING is more intimidating than trying to go down a fast, steep, technical road at speed if you don't have all of tips, tricks, skills, and tools.
Once you're confident that you can slide to a stop both heelside and toeside, just about any hill some a whole lot more fun. And again, LEARN TO RIDE A BOARD WITH LOOSE TRUCKS. The best all around skaters on the planet are ones who know how to RIDE a board. You can't just crank down the trucks and bomb. If you can learn to standing slides, you're GOLD. Knowing how far to push a board to slide, and then to recover, means that you have a great grasp on the the relationship between your surroundings, your equipment, and yourself.
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mary vid
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On 7/10/2005 dennis
wrote in from
United States
(216.9.nnn.nnn)
Most of the footage was using a high end camera barrowed for m a local college and brought by a couple guys jon and david... thanks again for that guys.,..good thing it was never dropped:o) could have been expensive, also some was filmed using a regular dvcam and wideangle lens.
Im lovin this putfile thing never had any way to post any vids.. heres another of a hill outside seattle. this was the first times we skated it so the music represents how i felt on the prior run when I wasn't filming.
Click here to watch 'Movie_00019939'
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Video
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On 7/10/2005
Casey
wrote in from
United States
(63.224.nnn.nnn)
Dennis, that video was awesome. What kind of camera and lens/s were you using?
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re Make it break it
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On 7/10/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(216.233.nnn.nnn)
i said sliding on my glove with weight on the board. a typo. i meant sliding on my glove with weight off the board.
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re Make it break it
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On 7/10/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(216.233.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
I'm not clear what you mean by carve to a stop. r u saying to carve the board so it is pointed uphill. with a 40" board, this would take a wide road. If I carve to the left while leaning on my glove then I just go to the left and will stop when I run into something.
Also, r u saying i should use my feet 2 push the board around?
i have been practicing, by leaning on my glove with weight on the board and carving a 90 rt turn at the bottom of a hill, but looking for a pointer on the next step of sliding on the hill without the board carving to the right and onto the curb at the side of the street. i did a temp swap of my green goonies (flashbacks) for yuppie wheels which i thought might give me a leg up until i get the hang of it.
and thanks 2 u and Cliff 4 taking the time 2 respond 2 these questions. I have only seen sliding in videos and skate alone, so it is difficult 2 guage the combinations of elements that go into the final step of actually getting the board to slide with some measure of control.
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dennis
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On 7/10/2005
M4RC10
wrote in from
Brazil
(201.14.nnn.nnn)
Thanx for sharing the video!!
Cool...
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last post
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On 7/10/2005 dennis
wrote in from
United States
(216.9.nnn.nnn)
hey david thanks for that footi, i used a bit of it..
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mary vid
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On 7/10/2005 dennis
wrote in from
United States
(216.9.nnn.nnn)
putfile is good stuff check this maryhill clipy
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Movie_00019939
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Good old crusing.
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On 7/9/2005
Casey
wrote in from
United States
(63.224.nnn.nnn)
It's all good to me, if someone makes it too fast they're going to pay for it anyway. While everyone was focusing on going faster than the next guy me and my good friends were loving every foot of Maryhill. Watch the good old days right here! http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Maryhill01-2-1 Keep on cruising guys!
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Make it break it
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On 7/9/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
You can always get a board to slide/break free. At the risk of oversimplify the explanation, you have to to stop turning and start sliding. If you keep your weight over the board, and push the level of traction of the wheels to the max, you may or may not be able to slide the board. If the turn is not that sharp and you're not going that fast, you're going to stick the turn, which might not get you out of trouble. Often times sliding in a straight line with your board perpendicular to the fall line is the safest.
You need slide gloves, a little practice, and a lot of faith. After a lot of practice, you just need the slide gloves and a little faith. You need go get your weight off the top of your board, and on to your slide glove. Once you've got the weight off the board, it will slide easily by pushing and steering it with your feet, while putting much of the downforce on the glove. It's as if you're sliding down the road on the plastic puck, and pushing the rails of the board with your feet draped over the edge.
As Cliff Coleman will tell you, when you start practicing the Coleman Slide, don't reach out with your hand - instead set it down just about 4 to 6 inches off the uphill rail of the board while leaning and beginning a heelside turn. At first you may take it really slow, put the puck down and just carve to a stop. Keep doing this and carve harder and harder until you slide to stop. Then work on more speed while sliding to a stop. You may still be carving while sliding, but eventually you can eliminate the carve to the point where you're leaning back, putting the puck down, whipping the board around and pushing it straight into a slide without turning at all.
I'd keep practicing a slide to a stop until you can do it at 25, 30 or 35mph. The try sliding a 180 into a switch stance from about 12mph to 5mph. At first you won't know what to do while riding down the hill backwards, so just jump off. Later you'll figure out how to pendulum back around until you're in your normal stance, but that's a ways away.
No matter how soft your wheels are, the board can be slid. Just get your weight off of it and push. If you don't lean aggressively enough, they could stick and you may high-side it. Reach down (not out) in a quick, confident manner and push the board away. The traction of the wheels with suck the board to your feet. With slick roads and/or slick wheels, you'll want to do everything that I mentioned while holding on to the downhill rail, otherwise you could be kicking your board into outerspace.
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Big Red X
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On 7/9/2005
Grant
wrote in from
United States
(69.166.nnn.nnn)
Hey Chaput,
Thanks for the great speed board and it was nice to meet Marylou and the dogs. All I need now is to learn how to ride half as good as you and I will be all set. I have one question: What do you do if you are in a turn with your slide glove down and you need to scrub speed for the turn but the board won't break free? I was heading right for the curb and had to bail, is there something I should have done better? Thanks Grant
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How to contact us
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On 7/8/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Hey Bob, I haven't seen anything lately so please this email address to contact Marylou or me. Orders@Sk8Trip.com. I'll give you all of our other contact from there.
Yes, I'm in email hell right now.
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877 = 800
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On 7/8/2005 EBasil
wrote in from
United States
(63.206.nnn.nnn)
Bob, have you tried the toll-free number (or the dial-up) that's listed? http://abec11.com/contact.asp
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I am not Spam!!!
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On 7/8/2005
Bob Swartz
wrote in from
United States
(69.251.nnn.nnn)
Chris, I have been trying to contact you via email many times and get no response. I am using the address you keep posting with. I am trying to conduct business with you regarding my latest project. Either you are totally ignoring me or all of my email has gone in your spam bucket. Please send me info on how to talk to you directly... email or phone..
thanks
bob
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Mods and evolution
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On 7/7/2005 Aengus
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(193.113.nnn.nnn)
Just thought I'd say that I agree with absolutly everything you've said chris, evolution should not be stunted. In every form of racing evolution has been allowed (to some degree), sure if big business is involved then they can have an advantage over the little guy with the amount of money they can throw at it. However a large amount of innovation comes from the little men and while the sport does not have alot of capital involved thats not really an issue.
What needs to be done is a definition of what is allowed should be provided at each race and if anyone comes up with somthing innovative that wins and is allowed under current rules it should be accepted. If the governing body then wants to make sure a similar thing dosent happen again they should modify the rules. Its a simple situation as far as I can see. There should never be the need to ban or change things retrospectivly.
If your worried about people having an unfair advantage you have to ask what 'fair' IS. Advantages should not be compromised to far in my eyes. I like the fact that life is unfair in its very nature, we dont have the same genetics or experiance and that makes us better or worse riders.
Should we all use the same board, wheels and trucks? Then it would be personal ability that would count.. I don't think so as I've already implied, life is intrinsically unfair and any attempt to rectify that fact is in my eyes laughable. I think its all down to the belief in equal rights, the reallity is no one has equal rights, the whole idea is just that an idea, a nirvana which has no place in our world.
However, I think you have to decide what the compatition is about, I think there are a few options:
1. just riding ability (therefore all equip the same)
2. riding ability and equipment choice (the current situ)
3. riding ability and manafacture ability (Formula 1 does this with the manafacturers competition at the same time as the normal racing.
I think following car racing rules evolution is probably best, if manafacturers want to get into it in innovative R&D then have a option 3 for them where the best riders are sponsered and compete in a F1 type class. Everyone else can compete in different races where the equip allowed is limited to stock.
I;m not sure about most of the ideas I've covered there or whether I think they'd actually work out, just a few thoughts as they came to me.
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