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| Skateboard History (385 Posts)
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Buddy
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On 5/13/2009
Cliff Coleman
wrote in from
United States
(70.239.nnn.nnn)
Buddy,
The first Bunny Hop I saw was at the Anaheim Championships in 1965. It was done on a flat surface. I'm not sure, but it may have been Danny Schafer?
Cliff Coleman
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1st's, or...nto
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On 5/13/2009
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
I honestly feel that skateboarding progressed too quickly in that 76-79 time frame to honestly nail down who did what. In Alabama, we only had the wild world, skateboard world, skateboarder, and skaterider/waverider (awesome Florida based mag) magazines. So, who we saw do tricks was what was shown in the mags. But we knew there were skaters all over the country that were equally capable and equally initiated at inventing tricks.
Now, in the age of internet, it is far easier to document something new and off the wall.
On the fs air thing and Tony Alva, all the photos reference the dogbowl, but I dont think everyone that sees those photos realize that the dogbowl stuff happened in late 77/ early 78, not way back in 75 or possibly 76 as the current media now has everyone believing. the dead give away is the green 2nd gen Krypts.
I think the actual claim on the fs air and Alva (if it is legit) is that it was in a pool. I have seen numerous shots of the florida guys in the earlier days (mid 76) doing off the lips in pools (bs and fs) (clyde rogers, jeff croyl, walker, greg mischeid, etc) , but even back then then it was questioned if it was actually successfully ridden out. All we had were still photos, no video footage at all. And even a question of successful completion of the manuever was not so much an issue as was the simple awesomeness of the attempt itself. case in point, the Jay adams handplant things. The ALva fs air photo showed authority and calmness, as well as a firm hold to the board. We knew that photo showed an actual completed manuever in a pool, no doubt.
But first true FS air or backside, I think you have to go back to the bunny hops and doing it on hips in ditches and such. there is no telling who really did this first.
what about the inverts. There were guys in florida doing those wild fs (no less!) aerial berts and stuff that darn near appraoched a miller flip (not invented yet) more than anything.
I am not saying florida, florida, florida, I am simply using it as an alternative to the socal did everything, and that stuff was happening everywhere. 76-79 will never ever be duplicated again, nor can it be duplicated!
what about a frontside kick-in/roll-in off a wall or bench (from a stopped position). that is essentially the same movement as an ollie. I know some of the ones that even we did were actually airborn before we ever eclipsed over the edge of the wall.
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1st's, or.... not
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On 5/12/2009 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.68.nnn.nnn)
Buddy, I'm glad you put Greg Walker (well, and Torger, too) out there possible 1st candidates. My gut feeling is that the actual "1st" wasn't recorded or noted by any provable means (kinda like my 80+ mph luge runs in the early 80's- I wasn't bringing a camera along, 'cause, duh, it'd break if I dropped it!) : so, it'll likely come down to witnesses, photos, and/or a contest that it was noted at.
Herbn, 'air' in a pool, not to mislead anyone in a wrong direction, but I'd add Mark Lake (Flite) to early possible air antics. When I saw him in '76, in N.Y. or N.J., in a drainage ditch, he was already getting 'air', but without any 'ollie', just freaky-fast lines up+out. I only got to speak to him once, and that was some 2 years later ('78, in N.J.). But who knows? Pools out west were already being heavily sessioned, as were ditches, by '76 and even earlier. Again, I doubt the "real" first was even documented. ;-)
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first "indy air"
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On 5/12/2009 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(67.83.nnn.nnn)
well sort of, it wasn't really like duanes, though the grip and the direction were the same,boy position was more above the board,definitely not with the head under the board, Gunnar Haugo,apparently thought outside the box when it came to skate moves, he apparently was better known for one footed carves.i googled his name to once i thought of it ,to check spelling,it still looks weird. he probabely did other odd tricks. Wait maybe he double grabbed inside and outside rail,it's been a long time since i saw the pic, but it was around the coping of a backyard pool,so it was a way early grab,but still an air a very early air.
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another first,air
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On 5/12/2009 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(67.83.nnn.nnn)
air, there's a old board, definitely in the oldest dt style, supposedly made by tony alva himself for "perfecting the frontside air" well the board that we've all seen in the first pictures of the frontside air,is not this one,we've all seen it, i don't really need to describe it,blank alva ply deck(prototype).midtracks green kryptonic 65mm, a few kryptonic stickers, that's it. This may have been a practice board from before that, that was never in the pics,i don't know how long TA was trying airs before those pics,but i don't think it was that long.This board looks like it was thrown away for weeks, by a tony alva fan while trying to learn airs alot of people made their own boards and /or decorated their boards in the dt style. For thousands of dollars on ebay ,i'm gonna be a bit cynical. i wonder if Orton has any of his old taperkicks lying around,and there was another rider who did some of the first airs,sort of a low kind of not to stylish indy(backside) air,not like duanes' i used to have the page ,i have no idea about the date of the mag it came out of but it was very early, right at the start of ply boards, half the pics were of pig boards, i think it was from "skateboard world" anybody remember that pic or have a complete collection of that mag?
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kick-flip
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On 5/12/2009
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
I think, as far as what the rest of the country saw in the mags, that Kurt Lindgren may have the props. But we all know mags do not necessarily present the truth, but rather who got their picture taken doing it. So I would like to hear some of you west coasters or east coasters give us the real story.
what about Torger Johnson, or Greg Walker etc etc? (or even earlier) or possibly an average Joe that never got any coverage at all.
and I took this to mean old style kick-flip (toe under)
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Define the 'flip'
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On 5/11/2009 Pre-School Rider
wrote in from
United States
(75.68.nnn.nnn)
Whoa, hey, let's back-up for a second here... Define "kickflip" please 1st!!
Is this the 'catch the toe under the board' 180* kickflip, the 'one foot toe-under' 360* kickflip, the handspring (or handstand) 180* or 360* kickflip, or the "ollie" kickflip??
Not to take away from any 1st's here, I just want the gallery to please acknowledge that variants of the kickflip have been with us awhile now, with masters of certain forms being obvious in particular timeframes.
While Howell is a certain Innovator (and as such, one of my fave skaters!), I'll bet that Torger (or one of his contemporaries) has dibs on the simple 360* 'toe under' kickflip, whereas, I've seen, with my own eyes, Russ do a handstand 360* kickflip back in '76, which absolutely blew me away (and was certainly NOT his 1st try;It was by then, a practiced, perfected move done for show. Ollie kickflips, however, probably belong to Martinez, Mullen, Rocco or someone in that era? Herbn, man, you do pick some great 'what ifs' for all of us to ponder! ;-)
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kickflip
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On 5/11/2009 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(67.83.nnn.nnn)
let's see ,kurt lindgren?, torger johnson? ty page? bobby friers? wait maybe dale "sausageman" smith on second thought torger had to much of flow /style. i'll just leave the guess because it's been to long since i've seen it in print, it wouldn't be a dogtown guy, they would have reminded us over and over again, same with howell.hmmm i can't wait for a definite answer,maybe i'll google this. Well i leave this post un f'n modified, why couldn't i remember physics or calculus or other stuff in school ,noooo , i get stuck with this. The other day i was looking through ebay and i saw a board with a illuminati eye on it for 500+ bucks and i thought "andy howell" no thinking,no gap just instantly, like finnishing a sentance ,click on it,sure enough ,totally useless knowledge,he he
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kick flip
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On 5/10/2009
caddy
wrote in from
United States
(209.237.nnn.nnn)
who did the first kick flip?
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roller derby facts
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On 4/30/2009
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
please do keep us up to date. thats cool stuff. It may not crank everyone's tractor, but atleas Paul, Jack, and I are listening. I also clued in Jim Goodrich into the thread, so he is "watching from the fence".
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Confirming the facts
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On 4/30/2009 Larry D
wrote in from
United States
(70.59.nnn.nnn)
Paul and Buddy,
I have contacted Jack Smith and I think we can confirm the truth of the events and what effect they had or didn't have on the commercialization of skate boards and skate boarding in 1959. I will keep you posted.
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Roller Derby Circle
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On 4/17/2009 Paul Howard
wrote in from
(173.8.nnn.nnn)
LARRY D - If you have those people's contact info,
#1 - They would probably appreciate the completely surprise letter, email or phone call from someone in their past, people are weird that way.
#2 - If they don't want to get together on a story-telling history project, they can always say "no thanks" and you won't be guessing and they'll at least know they had a shot at it, since you offered. Maybe they have had similar thoughts seeing where skateboarding has gone and just need a nudge. Maybe, maybe not.
#3 - Jack Smith who can readily be found on www.skateboardersjournal.com(his project) or here at NCDSA on the Slalom forum would likely be interested in working with you on it if noone else would.
It took a LONG time of kids ignoring and downplaying the history of skateboarding but more and more as time goes on the kids I see around at skateparks and else where say things to me like "Wow, that's cool you saw all that stuff when it was happening in the old days" when they find out I've been skateboarding since 1974.
That's my 2 Cents on the subject. Adios - Paul
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more history
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On 4/13/2009
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
wrote "When I see young people enjoying themselves at skate board parks I feel that it would be nice if they knew more about those months in 1959 when the sport transitioned from young neighborhood boys and girls first pushing the envelope on a local basis in Cupertino to the beginning of the opportunity for young people everywhere to do the same."
You know I thought the same thing, and tried to introduce as much background as I could. But with the market (skaters and media) being so "now" oriented, history is not even in the equation. It truly seems that the only people interested are the people that skated pre-'80's. Its a real shame. On here, people will care and utilize the info to piece that little extra bit of history into the big picture.
the easy way to think of it is like this. There are eras or generations in the skateboard market. great-great grandkids understand virtually nothing about that early generation. Apply it skateboarding and it works the exact same way. And what they do understand is usually filtered incorrectly by the "now" media mentality. How many people can really tell you much about their G-G-grandparents? then the next question is how many really even cared to research their G-G- grandparents? that small little bitty handful is the audience that uses good histroical info. But, being on the defense about someone using it undesirably is 100% warranted.
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More Detailed History
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On 4/13/2009 Annonomous - for now
wrote in from
United States
(71.33.nnn.nnn)
Sorry. I'm not trying to be elusive.
I have had several run-ins with the news media in the past (not skate board related) and it hasn't been pleasant.
I can not say for a fact that someone in the Roller Derby organization took the design of the boards from Barbara and Patty's pair and went commercial without making any contact with the four young boys who had prototyped them so I am reluctant to say too much or give any names except the ones already publicly known.
When I see young people enjoying themselves at skate board parks I feel that it would be nice if they knew more about those months in 1959 when the sport transitioned from young neighborhood boys and girls first pushing the envelope on a local basis in Cupertino to the beginning of the opportunity for young people everywhere to do the same.
It amazes me that whoever it was that manufactured those first Roller Derby boards never tried to obtain a patent ... maybe because they didn't design the boards.
I left my e-mail address with my first post in case someone wanted more information on a private basis but no one has sent me a reply yet.
My parents had an 8mm (color) movie camera at the time and I thought there may be footage of the four of us on the boards (possibly even during the "prototyping") but all I could find (so far) is footage of Patty and my sister roller skating on the driveway where it all happened. If I come across any actual film I will post it.
I visited the old neighborhood a few years back and talked with the person who bought the house from Annis Jensen (they still live there)and they gave me her daughter's phone number (Barbaras) but I never called her. I don't know that she even realizes the circumstances (or wants to) and I don't want to start something that she may not want to be part of.
I feel the same way about the other three boys that were in on the prototyping process. I have not had contact with them since 1963.
Enough for now, Maybe word will spread "grass roots" about the Roller Derby connection and any of the players that WANT to come forward will do so on their own.
It really is an interesting story (a piece of history) and this is the 50th anniversary of the transition.
Larry D
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Roller Derby, Anonomous for now
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On 4/12/2009 buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
I too thoroughly enjoyed the read about the how the first commercially market skateboard came to be. But I dont understand the covertness and anonimity. skateboarding is about "now". In the 50's it was about "now", same in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, etc. Noone really gives a care about the history of skateboarding except the very few on here, and about 250 others. Thats why it has been such an uphill battle telling newer skaters (post 80's) what really happened. In the 70's. For me, we never heard about much about the 60's at all. I rememeber standing on a board around ~69, and my parents commented about them being taken off the market becuase of injuries. However, now I know that was primarily a mainstream topographical analysis. SO over the past years (thanks internet), I dug as deep as I could and found answers.
Maybe sometime in the future you will let the 300 skaters that really care know who you are, so we could maybe glean a little more info. Like, the first roller derby was supposed a steel wheeled set-up. But it sounds like what you guys saw was basically a rink-style truck and clay wheeled offering as the first version.
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Roller Derby
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On 4/10/2009 Paulskiivoxg
wrote in from
(173.8.nnn.nnn)
Good read, cool story. -P
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Transition from "personal" to "commercial" skate boards
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On 4/3/2009
Annonomous - for now
wrote in from
United States
(71.33.nnn.nnn)
Cupertino, California. (Richmond Dr.) Summer, 1959. Four nine year old boys tinkering with scrap lumber, damaged steel wheel roller skates and a sloping, turning driveway.
Development of a 1x6 fir board, modified to just the right length with just the right wheel spacing to negotiate the turning slope of the driveway and the sharp turn onto the sidewalk at the bottom. (early "downhill")
Ensuing personal competition between four friends to master and excell in speed and turning capabilities and impromptu "tricks" on this new skate board.
Boards made for all four in "prototyping" group and further "testing" done in driveway.
Expansion of skate boarding territory to include entire neighborhood.
Neighborhood excitement over new "toy" resulting in production of additional skate boards for neighbors and friends.
Skate boards made for two neighbors with famous mom. (Barbara and Patty Baker)
Two neighbors (Barbara and Patty) take their new "toys" with them on tour with their mom.(Annis Jensen - captain, womens team, Bay Area Bombers Roller Derby)
Patty and Barbara skate board aroud the sidelines at a Roller Derby meet while on tour with their mom.
Months later, the very first "commercial" skate boards appear in a local Cupertino toy store.
Wonder of wonders ... a Plywood version of the boards developed by the nine year olds months earlier but with a painted logo down the middle of the board ... "ROLLER DERBY".
Sounds to me like there is a link between the four nine year old "prototypers" and the first commercial skate boards.
I know all about it, I was one of the nine year olds.
I have names, locations and other pertinant information if you are interested in finally publicly defining who actually invented (prototyped) the first skate boards.
I don't want any money or noteriety. I just think it would be fitting to put this to rest on the fiftieth anniversary of the original event.
Larry D
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1974 Kate Sessions City Contest
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On 3/1/2009
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(66.91.nnn.nnn)
Amazing what you find in lost in garage space!
Greg Weaver, Steve Cathey, Doug Saladino, Lane Oaks, Paul Engh and that wild samoan kickin butt! Alva and Adams were here too. Got a pic of them somewhere....
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Fibre rider (Sayville) Details
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On 2/28/2009 Mike W. from NJ
wrote in from
United States
(69.142.nnn.nnn)
I remember it like it was yesterday (I'm 43 now). Fibre Rider was located on Sunrise Hwy in Sayville. Somebody said something about Billy Blakes but I don't remember that. I lived in Patchogue and this was a good car ride away but in any case the place was indoor, constructed of the prefab blue fibreglass that was bolted to the concrete floor.
The 'big' attraction was (what seemed like) a huge ramp that must have been 20 feet talk. You would climb a metal staircase alongside the thing reminiscent of a fire escape, barrel-ass down the ramp which was about 10 feet wide and around a banked 180 which had to be 40 feet from side to side. With plenty of speed, it brought you over a straight away, and three whoop-de-doos (technical term) to a tall vertical.
There was also a 'pool' which consisted of a three sided enclosure; flat was on ground level and a bit too far across but each of the three sides had a 90' bank, some sections had an extra flat vertical but most were standard height (about 5') that you could grind on.
There were also 1/2 pipes (about 4 of them) which were of slightly bigger radius than the 90' curve in the 'pool'. There were not very good at all.
That's really about all I remember (the three attractions).
Adjoined was a Roller rink and all sorts of video games, pinball machines, etc. which were 'of the day'. I remember playing some of the early video games like circus (rudimentary clowns on a teeter tooter). They also had Williams Flash and about 15 other pinball machines.
Ultimately we all grew up, finding Northport Pipeline and ultimately not skating at all. Today the place is an abomination of a flea market though I moved far away (now in New Jersey). Happy to read any other details that may contradict my recollection or add to it !!
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long island
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On 2/9/2009 michael reich
wrote in from
United States
(66.65.nnn.nnn)
i remember all those places except sayville !! i was 9 when i first went to vernon valley n.j. then skatopia in northport which turned into the pipeline ! went to l.i.s.a. , concrete wave ! i was tiny and had to wait for a turn of one carve of the pool ! had no weight to get up high !! i wish i had photos too !! somebody please post some if you got 'em !!
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Speed records
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On 2/9/2009
Joe Lehm
wrote in from
United States
(65.19.nnn.nnn)
Race School is spilling over into History! TimeShip will send a free TSR DVD if you are the first to answer the following: WHO were the first skaters CREDITED with breaking 50mph, 60mph, 70mph, 80mph and 90mph? Extra DVD also awarded if you can name WHERE these milestones took place. Hint: 90mph took place on an Airstrip.
Disclaimer: Note the term "Credited" meaning found in magazines or video documentation. Skateboarding, not luging or skatecars, and not limited to only gravity power.
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Contact
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On 1/21/2009
Jack
wrote in from
United States
(69.229.nnn.nnn)
herbn, if you have a free moment please contact me vis email:
jack@theskateboardersjournal.com
Thanks,
Jack
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sims
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On 1/14/2009
cfav
wrote in from
United States
(98.223.nnn.nnn)
yea,i had a superlight just like that one.rad.C
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and one more...
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On 1/13/2009
Rick f.
wrote in from
United States
(65.183.nnn.nnn)
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More Nanuet
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On 1/13/2009
Rick F.
wrote in from
United States
(65.183.nnn.nnn)
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