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| Buttboarding (778 Posts)
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Buttboarding Info |
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On 7/2/2003
Mario
wrote in from
(148.87.nnn.nnn)
Someone has to write something here, this forum is dead!
I made some chrome-moly trucks a couple weeks ago. They aren't buttboard-legal because they aren't readily available to the common man, but I might make up a batch if I get motivated. They'd be killer buttboard trucks because they have a really low roll center, and can be made to any width. I made mine with a 12" hangar just for kicks.
Basically what I did was take a Randal design and put the axle in between the pivot and the bushing. That lowered the truck so much that I had to use 80mm+ wheels so that the kingpins wouldn't hit. Some riser pads would solve that problem, and wouldn't change the roll center, which is very close to the ground. (See Chaput's drawing in the Decks forum for an illustration of roll center.)
Other cool things I did were make hollow replaceable Cr-Mo 8mm axles and cut speedwashers onto the hangars. They fit on a Randal baseplate. I showed them to Randal recently and he had some advice, and seemed generally supportive of the idea. Dan at SF Longboarding tried them and quite liked them. They are with the Freeboard factory right now.
So how will they work for buttboarding? I think the lower roll center will make them less tippy than a conventional truck. That should also make your wheels wear more evenly. And they'll be wider than R2s, if that matters. I need to get some pics up, it will all make sense then.
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On 5/24/2003 steve
wrote in from
(64.220.nnn.nnn)
Just take off those washers that come with the trucks... you know, they aren't the bearing washers, and are much bigger than the bearing washers. I don't see what purpose they serve, and my board rides just fine without them.
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On 5/19/2003 PSR
wrote in from
(216.114.nnn.nnn)
Joseph,I'm still in favor of your looking really hard at trimming your axle hangers by 2mm-3mm on each side;However,if you're going the locktite route,don't flip the locknuts.The outer on nylock-type locknuts is nylon plastic,which has zero threading strength.worse,it interacts(as most plastics do) with Locktite badly,as in melting or chemically breaking down. So try your nuts on normally as to keep the threading metal-to-metal.Make sure you wheels are on each axle before applying locktite,and smear a little extra oil film(with a q-tip or issue) on the outer bearing race/shield to keep the locktite from bonding with the bearing.With the locktite,try using a toothpick to apply the threadlocker onto the axle's threads,but only outer two threadings.With the nut,use a q-tip to apply a very thin coat inside the nut,not touching the nylon lockring.Wipe with a tissue so to keep excess locktite away from your bearings.Tighten your nuts down carefully,slowly,without tipping(keep this as level as you can)the board much.Keep spinning your wheels for a few,to keep the locktite from latching onto the bearings as it dries.It'll dry in about 15 minutes with most formulas. Oh,and as for nuts,ask around at tool-supply or automotive shops for all-metal Aircraft Grade 5/16-24T locknuts.They have a slimmer profile than the Nylock nuts,and are far stronger,too.Since they use crimped threading,they can be reversed(if you can get the bloody thing to thread on!)and be gripping within two-three threads.Definately worth looking into those type of nuts.I'd send you some,but getting anything Metal shipped from the U.S. overseas these days takes a special note from Mr. Ashcroft and a small fortune paid to Federal Express.
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On 5/19/2003
joseph
wrote in from
(203.108.nnn.nnn)
not bad wheels just rough road and corners.
i'm in sydney so a little far away but thanks anyway for the offer mario.
i'll try running the bolt backwards but its hard to screw the bolt on with the locknut bit there. i'll try loctite first. how do i stop it getting in the bearings when applying?
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On 5/19/2003 hc
wrote in from
(207.212.nnn.nnn)
joseph, hmmm, chunking, could these be the 'bad' ones?
past mentions of running locknut backward,
never tried it myself...
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On 5/19/2003
Mario
wrote in from
(148.87.nnn.nnn)
I loctite everything. The stuff works. I use blue (removable) most of the time. The red stuff is a bitch to remove. Loctite is better than Permatex, in my experience.
If you're anywhere near San Carlos, CA, I can cut down your hangars and true the faces parallel to your axle. I have a tool that chucks into a cordless drill, slips over the axle, and cuts down the face. Takes about 30 seconds. I can cut a fixed speedring onto the hangar as well.
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On 5/16/2003
joseph
wrote in from
(211.28.nnn.nnn)
i dont even really like the exkate wheels. rough ride and they chunk not to mention overpriced! but i'm broke and the little money i get in the coming months is going towards leathers. the wheels just have to much life left in them so i will have to do something.
What about locktite? like a rubbery glue that people use to ensure that their kingpins stay in? a little bit on the nut? it would hold up or not?
i'll also post this in the trucks forum and hope to get a few more responces there.
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On 5/16/2003 PSR
wrote in from
(216.114.nnn.nnn)
Joseph,you've got some issues there...You can go without speed washers,but that's not really good,as the friction from a spinning bearing might torque on an axle nut,and leave you with three wheels.However,keeping washers and those Exate wheels won't ensure that your nuts stay tight either.So,besides the obvious solutions of changing trucks,or changing wheels(Flashbacks ; Get them instead.),you've got really only two options. Fix the axles,or don't expect your wheels to stay on your sled. Two fixes come to mind here: [1st] Get longer axles,check thru the archives here(or ask) how to punch out Randal axles,(while you've got the stock ones out,consider replacing them with 8mm axles)and replace with longer ones. [2nd] Take some width off the hanger so that the existing axles have that extra 3-4 mm they need to use Exate wheels.This can be accomplished by spinning the hanger slowly(put the axle/hanger,Not the with the baseplate,in a slow-motor drill or lathe)and using a straight file,take some of the aluminium hanger metal off.Easy to do with the right tools,and either approach should work. I would still recommend Flashbacks,Avalons,Power Paws,Roadie Racers,or even Kryptos over those Cherry Bombs,and that really is The Fix-"New Wheels".
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On 5/15/2003
joseph
wrote in from
(211.28.nnn.nnn)
i have just switched out my indy 215's for randal r2's with a flipped kingpin and reds bearings (bones.). i am running old cherry bombs given to me cheapo after being worn down on a luge. I know this is not legal (i dont care not many races in australia and if there are any i dont think people will care as i suck and will come last.)
Anyway my problem is that the axle is to short. the bolt gets right up to the nylock but not over it and i am very scared that it's going to come apart at speed. any recomendations? will it really hurt the boards performance if i take the speed rings off? i cant afford new wheels and cant afford to risk stuffing my randals getting longer axles.
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On 5/7/2003 PSR
wrote in from
(216.114.nnn.nnn)
Sean C,yeah,I'm trying for it.It's not too far away,and other than not having full leathers and the helmet I'd like to have,I'm pretty much ready to roll!Heck,I even scooped up some new Flashbacks for the summer. Hey,speaking of wheels,has anyone else thought about using soft Avilas,but cut down to 70mm in diameter? Nah,I'll just get the Red Avalons...
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On 5/6/2003
Scott Peer
wrote in from
(198.81.nnn.nnn)
West LA College starts May 18th. Check the contest calendar for all the details for the series. See you there!
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On 5/6/2003
Scott Peer
wrote in from
(198.81.nnn.nnn)
SF buttboarding as I recall it: on wet and slippery roads Andy Lally came in just before the racing started, to pull off yet another win. I think Mark Johnson was 3rd, Erik Cole 4th, me 5th. We ran 3 heats of 8 at a time, sliding through turns in the rain, but only one crash with 2 of us, and we're both fine, and even finished the run.
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On 5/6/2003
sean c
wrote in from
(158.136.nnn.nnn)
hey PSR i was just wondering if you reconsidered making the GSI event in may. we went to the hill this past weekend to clean off the hill and start setting up. the road looked great. don't have any worries about getting into race shape, we have some of the most laid back races you'll ever show up to.
the more the merrier. i can't wait to see your buttboard in real life.
sean c
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On 5/6/2003
Tommy
wrote in from
(212.185.nnn.nnn)
Does anybody know the SF buttboardin results ? cheers
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On 5/2/2003
Tommy
wrote in from
(212.185.nnn.nnn)
Hi EK ! Who said I didn`t know the meaning of the word "pakalolo" ? :-)
But I have to say its good to have it confirmed by someone who obvioulsly must know ! ;-)
cheers Tommy
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On 4/30/2003
EK
wrote in from
(204.246.nnn.nnn)
Yea... it's me again. Forgot to post one for Andy.
Hey Andy... contact me when you get in Northern Utah (Salt Lake City) on my cell (1-801-362-4192). Leave a message and I'll get back to you. Or e-mail me: ekkpo@hotmail.com
Laters,
EK
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On 4/30/2003
EK
wrote in from
(204.246.nnn.nnn)
Wow!!!! I take back the "inactive posting" comment. I have not been to this site for a while (active in the GravityBike.com site due to Frisco event coming up).
First: Sean C... no shame my friend about too poor in building your boards. Hey, I have an old home-growned buttboard set-up with indys 215s and sector 9s 70mms (this is not the board I crashed with last San Fran... maybe I should had use it...). It's 38" long by 9 1/2" wide, a piece of 3/4" hardwood sandwiched in fiderglass (I used to glass boards in Hawaii). Nothing fancy... very functional and rides great (bomded 50+mph down Park City's back streets...). I think it's cool when there's riders out there with "old school" set-ups. Keep up to flow.
Second: On the "Olympic dream thing" with the IGSA and GBA. I still feel this is a good thing and that we as riders should make an effort to project a smarter and "professional" attitude. The public, in general, sees us as a bunch of nut cases with a death wish (ask me what comments I got back in Utah...). So to change this and to further our sport, we need to "play the politics" and give an image that is "easy on the eyes" of the public so that we can go to them for support (also moneys... you like money, right?!). No poaching of public fair-throughs, guys! I know how it is... my eyes water to see a righteous hill but when it is located right in the middle of a residential area or running through major traffic, no good. If this union looks just like a bunch of glitz or flash to you, think long term. This union of the USALuge and IGSA is a big step in making things legit and, in all reality, if you want to be a "super star" in sports, with all the fan fair and "Oh, you're soo cool" trimmings, you have got to play the game.
Third: Hey Tommy! You said that your "modified" longboard to buttboard is from a company called, "Pakalolo"?! In hawaiian that word means "Pot" or "weed", or as we island people call it, "Hawaiian Christmas Tree" (ask me later why we call it that...). That's funny that you didn't know that (LOL). "Hey look, man... check out my reefer stick" (LOL). Watch out, it might go squirrelly (Ha!).
One last thing to this long ass post: Mario... my brother. I feel for you and hope that you heal quickly. I will be there this weekend and I will be glad to see you again. I will not be bringing any "gravity vehicle" with me but I too wii be watching the fun.
Well keep the posting up my friends. Information is power. Support this sport by giving back to the sport.
Next post from me will be after this awesome weekend in San Fran Gravity Fest.
Peace.
EK
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On 4/28/2003 Mario
wrote in from
(148.87.nnn.nnn)
IGSA - SF
The long-range forecast looks line rain for the whole weekend.
I'm not sure if I will race. I'm already nursing two injuries and a bump into the hay bales is going to send me into agony. I can't bend my knee enough to get on my gravity bike, and my wrist is so jacked I have a hard time paddling on my buttboard.
I'll probably come up and watch, but I think I'm out of racing until the Sept 19-21 race in SF.
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On 4/27/2003
Tommy
wrote in from
(212.185.nnn.nnn)
Hi PSR, your right- The width of the board is very comfortable (if you can call buttboarding comfortable at all ;-)
Dont worry about the nose and the tail... They look sharper than they actually are ;-) In the front you would only get in contact with my legs und in the back your steel-toed shoes would probably only knock at my helmet while tight draftin :-) because I will always try to hold on to my board in every situation and never let it go on its own ! The truck on the nose are mounted with wedge cell blocks with the thicker side in front to get the trucks down on the front... (hope its clear because I dont know how to describe it better in english). The wheelsbase looks quite long... but compared to other buttboards I ve seen it is actually is quite an average lenght I think,(80 cm). The make of the board is a longboard company called "pakalolo" from Berlin and actually it was shaped for sidewalk surfin ;-) But(t) I thought it will fit me very well for buttboardin, and it does ! Have a look:
cheers Tommy
(PS: I am thinkin of cutting the nose and puttin the back trucks with big wedge blocks into the tail... probably worth a try.)
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On 4/27/2003
Duane
wrote in from
(209.244.nnn.nnn)
Civ, get yourself a leather jacket from a thrift store. Hopefully a heavy one that can be cinched up around the middle. This and 2 pairs of jeans works remarkably well below 50mph. Check Video 3 at www.topchallenge.ca (click the media link) to see how well. That's not me, thankfully, but my namesake from New Zealand.
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On 4/26/2003
Andy
wrote in from
(68.36.nnn.nnn)
Yea EK, It has been a LOOOOONG Winter.
Anyway, my buddy and I are locked and loaded for you hood on May 10. We get off the plane in SLC at about 11:30am. Then we are driving up to twin falls for some boarding, climbing, and BASE jumping. If you think it is worth hooking up in SLC before we head North, send me an email. I tried to email you about a month ago, but I've been having a lot of missing messages reported by my friends. So I don't know if you ever got the note.
We really don't have to be in Twin Falls until that night, so let me know if you want to take a run to some of your hills.
Peace, Andy
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On 4/25/2003
Civ
wrote in from
(24.141.nnn.nnn)
do you guys think a double layer of denim and a full face helmet will be enough protection for some non racing runs? I also wear knee and elbow pads. Anyone with cheao leathers?
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On 4/25/2003 PSR
wrote in from
(216.114.nnn.nnn)
Sean,I'll try for the May contest in N.H.,but I still need time to get back into 'the groove' before I run a race.It's one thing to drag-race a friend or two,and another thing to deal with a pack of racers.I don't want F.U. in traffic!Tommy,that's a nice board!However,I'm a tad concerned with the nose,but more so with the tail,Shaping.I tend to like tight drafting,and that tail looks mighty sharp,even with steel-toed shoes on.Maybe a nerfbar or some padded foam,like the stuff used for insulating 1" hot-water piping? Otherwise,I like the width,and the long wheelbase.What make of board is that,btw? Also,did you mount the front truck flat with that turned-up nose?
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On 4/25/2003
sean c
wrote in from
(158.136.nnn.nnn)
psr i feel your pain, i'm in little 'ol plymouth, NH and the sand is driving me nuts. i will be at the june race as well. what about the may 24th event? is that too soon for you? yeah the gsi rules allow up to 1" of padding. so you may be all set there. have a picture of the board?
sean c
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On 4/25/2003
tommy
wrote in from
(212.185.nnn.nnn)
Hey EK, Yes, I m a buttboarder actively readin this message board too. And of coure riding actively too !
I am not on the message-board every day but(t) on regular bases...
I did start buttboardin on Invader Longboard Trucks and then after a while switched to RII 180s. Most of my buddys use Indys... It doesnt make that big difference except from real racing when you need the last bit more of stability. (Thats my experience).
I am riding a "normal" (quite big) longboard with concave, nose and tail...
cheers Tommy
have a look... (hope it works;-)
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