|
|
|
| Q&A: Dr David Hartman on Head Injuries (824 Posts)
|
| Topic |
Comment |
|
protec helmets
|
|
On 8/13/2002 Patio
wrote in from
(207.16.nnn.nnn)
I took a nasty fall on a 12' vert ramp last year...frontside grind to hang-up on rollerblader(who sat on the edge of the ramp as I was riding).
this put me into a "flat spin" and I landed flat on my back, right on the flat, barely any transition to catch my fall...I slammed HARD. knocked the wind outta' me.
I was very aware of the plastic of the helmet smacking, the cushioning/cradling of my head by the foam. I felt no headach, or any pain associated with a head slam.
the helmet worked. (a Pro Tec "classic")
it is now retired.
p
|
|
|
|
|
No protection in Protec?
|
|
On 8/13/2002
Dan Hughes
wrote in from
(162.78.nnn.nnn)
Ok, So some people, such as Duane believe that Protec Helmets don't protect the users of such helmets. Now, if this were truely the case don't you think that the company would be pulling it's product in fear of a liablity suit?
I assume that there must be a consumers group that tested Protec helmets and found that they don't protect a persons head at all, hence the negative comments from people.
After the news gets out that dense foam doesn't protect one's head, the vert riders will throw their knee pads out and use styro-foam replacements, and replace them after each knee slide.
|
|
|
|
|
lids, pads and kids
|
|
On 8/9/2002
gavin
wrote in from
(195.194.nnn.nnn)
exactly who the preasure should be directed upon is a good, and possibly no win, debate. my belief is that you take a 70/30 approach with most of the effort aimed at the kids. if, as has been said already, you create peer pressure this then does your promotion for you. the 30% of effort is raing awarness with the parents, but as anyone in youth marketing knows, the young are increasingly the persuaders. your hope would be that the parents understanding of the need for further equipment justifys the spend based on the kids demand.
where does this sit with skateboards? in my view its amazing that pads and helmets are not compulsory in parks, and for the greater good, as i said earlier, the most important message is that its the industry's responsibility to pick up the word and spread it. if the 'pros' are seen wearing pads and helments no-doubt the kids will follow, this would generate huge amounts of peer preasure world wide, and as i also said earlier, why anyone can't see this HUGE opportunity to sell further product i really don't know.
do we lead by example? well i suppose its time to update my 20 year old sh@gged rectors (held together, and in place, with duct tape)!! : )
|
|
|
|
|
helmet cops
|
|
On 8/8/2002 sk8nwolf
wrote in from
(63.65.nnn.nnn)
You are bordering on the asinine, now lbk...but the theme is the most important part...yes parents are responsible for their kids, not the cops.
Enough peer pressure caused a lot of parents to make their kids wear helmets on their bikes, so where is the difference? And think how many accidents there were with bikes before
parents started listening? Now for the hard part...how do you get to the parents to listen instead of taking away all their kids' fun?
|
|
|
|
|
helmet "shatter"
|
|
On 8/8/2002 Duane
wrote in from
(68.15.nnn.nnn)
Helmets like almost every bike helmet, as well as ones for snowboarding, etc. like the Giro Nine (or Semi, same thing) consist of expanded polystyrene beads which do most of the deceleration of your melon, thin "soft" foam on the very inside mostly for comfort and fit, and a "shell" of thermofomed sheet plastic like polystyrene or ABS. The sheels of these helmets are there to look good, and give minor protection to the polystyrene to prevent abrasion, make them easier to clean, and did I mention look good ? That shell does little or nothing to protect your head. Yeah, it splits, cracks, breaks, or shatters upon hard impact. That does not mean these are bad helmets, quite the opposite. The expanded polystyrene stays intact and does all the work. It also does not rebound from the impact, so the helmet is ruined after a fall of this type.If you don't value your head, get a molded shell Protec with nothing but soft foam, these are a joke. If you do, get something like the Giro helmets with the expendable shell. I should also mention that the chin straps on the Gira are the best I've seen, comfortable enough to actually use; how many kids have you seen with the strap hanging loose?
|
|
|
|
|
lids
|
|
On 8/8/2002 longboardbuddha
wrote in from
(194.117.nnn.nnn)
like i listened to what my parents had to say....if i did i would spend my days playing video games safe in the house....peer pressure gets kids to wear helmets and protective gear and the peer group are the switched on guys and gals who rip the park...save a groms head you be the guy who tells them to wear a lid.
|
|
|
|
|
Helmet Criminals
|
|
On 8/7/2002 lbk
wrote in from
(63.215.nnn.nnn)
The next time I see a kids playing baseball without helmets, I'm going to call the cops. Those crazy kids should get a big fat fine and we could by gloves with the money so we can give out more fines for kids playing baseball without helmets. Oh and sand lot football and no helmets, then I'll call the cops again. Maybe one day we can get rid of all rouge sports like football, baseball, and basketball. Just the other day some kid threw a heart attack playing football. They should pass a law outlawing such dangerous sports………
Damn, let the Law Enforcement Officers do real jobs like fighting crime. Why do we have to make criminals out of young skateboarders?
If a parent thinks a skatepark is a cheap babysitter and that kid rides without a helmet and gets hurt, the parents should be held liable. Not the skatepark, or the county or the cops.
If you want kids to skate with helmets, the responsibility is up to the parents and nobody else. Just because some cop forces your kid to wear a helmet in the only park he ever gets to skate, do you really thing that he will wear one skating on the street? I think not.
Teach the kids how to wear helmets. Parents should hang at the skatepark with their child to make sure he rides with a helmet. In time, maybe the parent can trust the kid to skate by himself with his helmet. Then and only then will you see kids starting to pick up a helmet to skate the streets.
|
|
|
|
|
helmets that shatter
|
|
On 8/7/2002
jjeff
wrote in from
(47.230.nnn.nnn)
I read about a serious head injury that was posted on the slalom forum. The scary part is that it was reported that the rider's helmet shattered upon impact. Suprising to me, one poster mentioned that the helmet was designed to shatter! That doesn't seem like much head protection to me.
If I'm riding at speed on my board and I am thrown off with my head toward a very hard object like the street, I would not think I would want my helmet to only protect me for the initial force of impact by shattering, then let my unprotected skull deal with the remaining post-shatter force. Wouldn't a helmet that crushes but not shatters cause less damage, especially if there potential for a second object to slide/bounce into, like a curb?
|
|
|
|
|
lids
|
|
On 8/7/2002 longboardbuddha
wrote in from
(194.117.nnn.nnn)
its funny that story about standing out in the crowd...at our local skatepark its a harshly enforced rule that even if you are standing on a ramp watching you have to wear full pads and a helmet...so it gets to a stage where kids see their peers wearing safety gear and thus it is cool to wear it...so theres a groove running through the park that anybody not wearing gear becomes the subject of ridicule prior to the staff throwing them out on their ass.the upshot of this rule is that say 70% of the kids that skate street style in the city center all wear full pads and helmets....
|
|
|
|
|
helmets, knees and a story
|
|
On 8/6/2002
gavin
wrote in from
(195.194.nnn.nnn)
helmets. agree thoroughly that the prob with helmets and other safety gear for the kids is that its not considered cool, but, if you look at BMX (esp dirt jumping) kneepads and helmets are an integral part of the 'uniform'. now why a skate manu can't see the untapped potential of that market i don't know. heck, what pro would'nt wear full protection for enough dollar?
knees. if its any help, i suffered from sore knees for years but over the last year i've started regular'ish stretching at night and before going surfing. just a simple 'salutation to the sun' but its worked wonders for me.
story (about helmets, aplogies if i've posted this before). no one at the indoor park i go to wears helmets or pads, and when i decided it was time to wear a helmet (i always wore one in the 80's at the concrete park i frequented) i had real problems making myself do it. it was a pure ego thing. so chatting to the wife one day i told her about this and said 'the problem is i don't want to stand out.' her reply... 'you're 36, you're at least 20 years older than 98% of the kids there, don't you think you stand out enough already?'. and since then its never bothered me to wear one!
|
|
|
|
|
various...
|
|
On 8/5/2002
Patio Mendino
wrote in from
(63.65.nnn.nnn)
I am usually wearing more pads that all the other skaters combined, when I go to the local no-pads skatepark. Most of them put their helmets on when they see the cops coming.
Knees: I run a few miles 3 times a week. the pounding of running will "strengthen" your knees for the pounding of skating. Cycling is great to strengthen the muscle groups.
when running, your knees take about 3x your body weight in force. that's "light" stepping. A jump off/run out from slalom or park riding will produce many times that force.
that is why so many oldschoolers are breaking their legs from running outta' stuff...that and an extra 25lbs...
p
|
|
|
|
|
homer's head
|
|
On 8/3/2002 snoball
wrote in from
(65.32.nnn.nnn)
yeah, but where's the blue crayon?
|
|
|
|
|
Helmets
|
|
On 8/3/2002 Dr. Hibbert
wrote in from
(24.197.nnn.nnn)
"Not wearing a helmet is the first sign of brain damage"
|
|
|
|
|
Helmet Laws
|
|
On 8/1/2002 msk
wrote in from
(172.138.nnn.nnn)
The biggest obstacle to getting kids to wear helmets is the "cool factor". Look at all the magazines and videos. With the exception of shots taken at vert ramps in parks, you'll never see anyone wearing one. I've even seen some of the magazines advise kids NOT to wear a helmet when skating at the local park ("...but keep it handy, just in case the police show up...").
At every public park I've skated in SoCal, helmets and pads are required. And quite often, I'm the only person wearing them. I know guys who rack up several hundred dollars in tickets per month, but still won't wear them. Because it's not cool. Until Thrasher and TWS start showing more helmets, it's an uphill battle...
|
|
|
|
|
Bloody bad habits
|
|
On 8/1/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
PaulW, you may want to reconsider the ibuprofen antidote to alcohol. Both increase the possibility of GI (gastrointestinal) bleeding and both together increase the odds more than each one individually. Food for thought as it were. . .
drD
|
|
|
|
|
Antique knees
|
|
On 8/1/2002
PaulW
wrote in from
(194.117.nnn.nnn)
Thanks...real food for thought. Great!
I didn't think of weights as being a positive: But, I guess the gonzo approach to exercise should be modified as one gets older.
Ibuprofen is an interesting one...I genuinely do take that, but only before I'm going out *boozing*. Never thought to use it before a skate session.
Finally, I realise that there's an element of "snake oil" with stuff like Glucosamine (and other fish oils), but it has definitely quietened the "creaking" sound of my knees.
Thanks again.
P
|
|
|
|
|
knee pain & strengthening
|
|
On 8/1/2002
snoball
wrote in from
(65.32.nnn.nnn)
Knee pain, blech. OK, here's some crackpot suggestions:
Ice your knees after a session. It will help reduce any swelling
you may experience.
Ibuprufen, take it. I know people who use it *before* they
do leg work but to me it's not such a great idea. Pain's
a good indicator that says,"Stop." Without that, you could
do more harm than good.
If you have access to weight equipment, do leg extensions
with LIGHT weight. This helps strengthen the muscles around
the knee joint for support. Glucosamine won't change whatever
degradation your knee joints already have, but some people
claim that it prevents further weakening of all their joints.
There is a technique for wrapping your knees with an
ace bandage. You'll see pro athletes I football, basketball )
doing this all the time. They put a pounding on their knees
constantly. Um, I can't remember what it's called right now
but starts with an 'M' I think. Run a search. Whatever
you do, don't wrap too tightly. ( I've done this and it
*does* help, but even done right it will feel slightly
restrictive at first. )
The issue of knee braces, from what I understand, is still
up in the air in the medial community. Some orthopedists
claim it will help your cap from shifting too much while
doing sports, others say they don't make any difference.
I don't know. For me, it's too cumbersome particularly for
skating.
Bicycling is great for your heart and lungs and for your
legs, some. But strength training with weights will make
a BIG difference for your legs. People underestimate this
sometimes but look at the training regimen of competitive
bicyclists and you'll see they weight train their legs.
Knees really take a pounding throughout our lives. Being
flexible ( read: SRETCH ) and having good muscle tone
will help slow down, and sometimes altogether alleviate,
certain physiological problems due to normal wear and tear.
Hope this helps!
|
|
|
|
|
Old knees
|
|
On 8/1/2002
PaulW
wrote in from
(217.33.nnn.nnn)
I know this is "Wear-a-helmet Central", but I couldn't really think of where else to post.
I've been cycling for the last five years and this has done wonders for my general fitness and stamina. Since rediscovering skating (after my 10 year old son got into it) , I've been out as often as I can and have found that my knees are starting to get very sore after long sessions in the streets: As a kid, I'd skate endlessly without problems, so I know it's my age, but: I'd really like to hear about other older skaters' methods for easing the aches: Diet... exercise... gritted teeth.
I've been taking cod liver oil and glucosamine, and that seems to be easing things. I don't want to be an old arthritic cripple. Any crackpot tips appreciated.
Cheers, P.
|
|
|
|
|
Heads in the Lobby
|
|
On 7/31/2002
Dr. Dave
wrote in from
(12.249.nnn.nnn)
Just a reminder for anyone involved in helmet law promotion or "free helmets" for needy kids, etc., to post email or other addresses in this section for readers to add their support.
thanks, drD
|
|
|
|
|
Helmet fund
|
|
On 7/31/2002
K-LEE
wrote in from
(68.35.nnn.nnn)
Ticket revenue going to helmets for poor kids? I really like that idea, as a kid I always KNEW I should buy a helmet, but a new deck or shoes always seemed more worth saving my pennies for. And my parent's excuse was the whole "poor" bit. I probably could have qualified for a free helmet, and if I got one, I probably would have worn it, since I was the loner-skater for the first 7 years I skated. No peer pressure there. Anyway, I totally dig the "helmets for the needy" aspect, enough to now be in support of the proposed law.
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
|
|
On 7/31/2002 Christian
wrote in from
(157.201.nnn.nnn)
Rich F,
Thanks for your advice on certaintly plan on doing that, it is just that I am still recovering and have not really had time to go on any sort of crusade with this at all. In fact I am still on a heavy amount of blood thinner, resulting from the fact that my blood clots were severe enough to make my right arm swell to double normal size and my left arm was swollen to double that, my legs were both almost double normal size and the doctors almost amputated all four of my limbs (that would have sucked!!!!).
I will, more than likely, use the stories of others when I do go out and pitch the law. But, in fact, right now I am trying to get some of the top, including THE top, skaters to help me pitch this new and ingenious notion of wearing a helmet.
The thing that really trips me up and makes me struggle is that I am a hardcore Republican, and this is a very democratic law. I feel that, however, there needs to be a law about something that makes this much sense, and that WILL truly make a difference in the safety of society. I agree that it SHOULD be the rider's choice, but I feel that it is not the rider's choice to charge others for his consequences. For instance, my medical fees were at a bare minimum of $1.6 Million. I had no right to charge anyone else for my stupidity! It should not, and must not, be a decision that one should be capable of selfishly making!
-Christian
|
|
|
|
|
Thankful acception
|
|
On 7/31/2002
Christian
wrote in from
(157.201.nnn.nnn)
Dear K-Lee,
Thank you so much for accepting my apology, I simply took it personal that an adult who rode was claiming this as a stupid law (which is what it sounded like to me, as stupid as I was). You have absolutley no need to even ponder on an apology to me at all. All of your comments are arguments that I have heard before and I simply did not think before I spoke(or in this case wrote).
This law will, almost unavoidably, have a positive effect on the stereotypical skater who wears a helmet. The industry will definitely change the image of, 'the helmet', and this will occur for the same reason that most things in our world occur: MONEY. This will make helmets a much higher selling product and it will create a higher demand therefore lowering prices and therefore making them accesible by all. Everyone, in that if they cannot afford one the government will pay for it from the money pulled in from the fines given out to those without helmets.
K-Lee, I totally appreciate the respect you showed and the classy response to my apology. It means so much to me when my accident can help someone else out, and that is why I am so passionate about this law.
Thank you so much,
Christian
|
|
|
|
|
Acceptance rate
|
|
On 7/31/2002
K-LEE
wrote in from
(68.35.nnn.nnn)
I'm curious, when any of you go to a helmet-free park or spot, how many kids do you see that are wearing their helmets despite the fact that they don't have to? What kind of percentages do we have right now? When I go to my local pad-free park, I feel blessed when I'm not the only kooky helmet-headed freak. Even if one or two of the in-line kids are wearing theirs, I don't feel like I stick out like such a sore thumb. For me personally, the whole image part was a big factor in the helmet issue. I have to admit, I feel less like a mushroomhead off of Mario Bros. and more like someone these kids could respect when I'm wearing my WWII German Bomber-esque Greatful Headz Hawg helmet. I get a lot of, "Wow, cool helmet dude! All it needs is a spike on top!" Anyway, I'm finding something like 5%-10% helmet use, including the BMX and Rollerblade kids, and the daycare-dropoff kids. Among the "cool" ripper kids, more like 2%. What kinds of numbers are you all seeing?
|
|
|
|
|
helmet use
|
|
On 7/31/2002
snoball
wrote in from
(65.32.nnn.nnn)
I've heard lots of crash stories and even had a friend die, a long time ago, from a skate related injury in the L.A. riverbed. But it was Patio Mendino's story that *really* motivated me. At the risk of becoming an instant target though,
there are times I do not use a helmet. There are risks, but I accept that and moderate my riding a bit.
I agree with K-LEE about marketing. Totally. Helmets are required in many skateparks but it has little impact on the skaters once they leave and go home to lidless riding. For
young ones, image is sometimes everything so the media would
do well to show the pros etc with helmets on. All the time,in
every photo.
What I *don't* think is a good idea is criminalizing skaters such as ticketing them on the street. An already overburdened police department having to deal with this additional duty doesn't make sense. If they're minors, ticket the parents, not the kid. If they're legal adults: deal with responsibility or get off your board.
|
|
|
|
|
Stories
|
|
On 7/31/2002
Rich F
wrote in from
(192.97.nnn.nnn)
Christian,
Be sure to incude other stories besides your own in your crusade. The law may force people to wear a helmet but the ultimate goal is to make people want to wear a helmet. Everybody has a "this won't happen to me" or "this doesn't apply to me because I don't downhill" or "I'm invincible" attitude which is perfectly normal, but also your greatest enemy. Your story is super bad but it will take a multitude of stories from all types of skating to make an impact.
A freak fall can happen to anyone at any time. Your goal is to make people realize this fact. For a gymnast a freak fall means landing on a 4-8 inch crash mat. For a skater its concrete, brain damage, or death. Suggest to even a world class gymnast that they do anything over concrete they'll tell you your crazy.
It was the multitude of horrible crash stories on this site, not just one, that educated me into a religious helmet wearer. What we need is a free book or magazine of these stories readily available everywhere skating supplies are sold or where people skate. The states money should go into stuff like that and positive advertising (TV, bilboards) that show helemts as cool, rather than negative enforcement through heavy ticketing that will create a negative response.
I'm sure dealers would think that it would scare off buisiness, but dealers and skaters need to come to grips with the reality that this is a dangerous and potentialy deadly sport.
|
|
|
|
|
