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| Q&A: Slalom Pro Mike Maysey (2489 Posts)
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sliding on short wheelbases
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On 4/10/2003
john airey
wrote in from
(63.113.nnn.nnn)
short wheelbases sliding?
Mike and Dr. P,
this happened to me too. Here's what I found:
disclaimer: I am an old, no-skill, slalom novice
goofing around on very slight slopes.
If you aren't really good at centering weight fore and
aft, you can get weight off the back truck even while
keeping your back foot close to it, simply because you
get too much weight on your front foot at some point.
then you'll slide easily or worse have the back wheels
actually hop off the ground.
A long wheelbase is more forgiving in this regard since
your weight is less likely to be completely fore or
aft.
But a long wheelbase has less margin for error going
through 6' cones. You have to turn at exactly the
right time to get a long wheelbase through the cones.
If your timing is a little off you will plow cones.
Which is easier for a novice?
precise turning to get a longer WB
through cones or learning to control fore/aft weighting
on a shorter WB. Not sure, but I think it's the latter.
What do you think Mike?
Chicken is chicken, he could ride a 2x4 and look good.
Does he really get a ~23" WB through 6' cones? wow.
Mike is mike, he can go 200mph on a 18inch WB turner
and look relaxed.
They are almost too good to learn from.
us duffers are in trouble trying to pick which way to go
regarding wheelbase.
I did the thing where
I put one front inside bolt in upside down.
My foot can cover one inside bolt, but
abuts the other protruding bolt (I put
two nuts on it). This stops my
front foot getting too far forward on the deck and
also helps with consistent foot placement. Mike talked
about doing this once and that's why I tried it.
Once I did this and my front foot is in the same place
all the time, I found it easier to ride the short WB
decks I have (18.25 and 19"). The short WB decks in turn
go through tighter cones with more margin for error.
A pro could probably put those decks through 4' cones.
Also, this allows me to get my back foot near the back
truck without an overly wide stance.
I am thinking that
probably most average people are better served by learning
to ride a shorter WB cause otherwise they have to
compensate with super precise turning to get a longer
deck through the tighter cones. They are going to practice
with cones too far apart as a result and plow cones at
races with tighter cones.
Dr. P, try mike's one upside down bolt trick and concentrate
on keeping some weight on the back foot and see if it
stops the sliding... It seems to have mostly worked
for me.
Mike I need to learn to ride a hill. I signed up for this
GS in SF and it is on a hill. Holl said it might have
elements of hybrid which to me means a few tight cones,
(I am guessing 6').
I don't want to DQ by failing to get my fatboy through
the tight cones. tight cones are
cool, but it means I should ride a shorter WB
deck and also go down a steep hill. yikes.
I want another parking lot race!
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response part 2
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On 4/10/2003 ur13
wrote in from
(165.247.nnn.nnn)
whoops...damn "enter" key
As far as foor placement on the response....
It is (was) Attila's "pro model" and if you wach the way he rides you will see it is a very Euro (stacey peralta) style. Heavily angled front foot with a toe block and the rear foot is raised up on the ball of the foot, heel in the air. This creates a steering foot (front) while maintaining the ability of the rear foot to pump and or brake (go to the other slalom site and read all the discussion about this from gilmour).
So the shape works for Attila, well worked when he designed it. That style of riding takes some getting used to and I wouldn't recommend it to everyone...but guys like charlie ransom REALLY make it work (Charlie uses a slight variation on the stance).
Concentrate on keeping the ball of your front foot over or just behind the inner most mounting bolts on the front. Then focus on keeping the rear heel over the inner most mounting bolts in back. Both feet should be highly angled (around 60*) without having excessive toe/heel overhang. Watch your rear heel, make sure it isn't hanging over the back rail too much or you will actually hit your heel on the rear wheel which is NOT fun....
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Leo's response
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On 4/10/2003 ur13
wrote in from
(165.247.nnn.nnn)
Leo...the tail of the response IS narrow, it is a semi classic double cutaway sahpe...anyway...the problem you may be having with slipping the rear wheels while pumping HARD is that G&S decks (compared say to a Turner) are VERY torsionally twisty and VERY soft. This problem is tripled when one is to heavy for a G&S (the 3ply is good for 140 pounds TOPS, the 4ply is good for 180 pounds TOPS).
I am assuming that you are slipping the wheels out at low speeds and/or high speeds. At low speeds the deck is twisting so much under your feet that you are actually pushing the rear truck with your body thus slipping it. At high speeds the deck is too soft with not enough traction.
However G&S decks, mainly the response, seem to perform well in the mid range. Their softness and twisty'ness seems to work for them at moderate speeds. They just take alot to get up to speed.
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Response
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On 4/10/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(65.234.nnn.nnn)
Hey Leo, my second slalom board was a Response. I found that it was not wide enough in the back too. Something I did that helped I think was concentrating on turning my feet more forward, not parallel, but a modified surf stance with one foot in front of the other but with both heel and toe on the deck...that's really the only advice I can give for that deck because I know how narrow it is in the tail.
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G&S response kind of decks
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On 4/10/2003
Leo
wrote in from
(146.18.nnn.nnn)
Mike, have u seen the shape of the Response, very similar to the small Ick (cant rememeber the name, but its used for TS) and i think also Roe made a deck with similar characteristics.
this decks, have the wider area a little bit far from the back trucks, i keep having the probelm of slideing the back truck a little when pumping real hard. maybe its my balance or that i am too straight instead of low to lowere my CG.
what would do u suggest for this kind of decks?
Leo( a new turner deck owner :) )
Leo
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Wheelbases
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On 4/10/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(67.192.nnn.nnn)
What length boards do you use for different size courses?
Right now I only have three boards set up. The long one with the 23 1/4" inner hole to inner hole measurement works for me for anything that's 7' and above. I have two fullnoses (Vince Handmades) that are very close to 18" inner hole to inner hole. These two boards work for the cyberslalom as well as any course that is fairly tight...say 6.5-5.5'.
As the cones get closer, should my trucks get closer or just looser/turnier?
You could probably try both...but my choice is always to get on a shorter wheelbase board. I know Chicken used a huge board in the Worlds, 36" long with almost a two foot span between inner holes and he made it fit. Me, I have trouble with that kind of adaption so I simply get on a shorter board. Funny thing was, the course that day was fairly tight at the top and opened up a bit as it went along so the longer wheelbase probably carried speed better through those sections of the course but I chose to ride the board I could both accelerate quickly as well as the one that was the easiest at navigating the top section which was actually under 6' according to GBJ. I've looked at the heat sheets from that day and even though I was riding a short wheelbase board, I still had the fastest time of the day...go figure.
Also, on very short wheelbases (25yr old orig. fibreflex) I seem to slide out. How do you balance truck placement and truck geometry?
Try placing your feet like this...cover up the inner truck holes on the front truck with your toes on your front foot. Then step on the board with your back foot and make sure it lands with your heel covering the inner truck bolts of your back truck. This stance should help you keep your trucks and wheels on the ground. Also, when you are skating through the cones, don't focus on the last cone. This will cause your head to begin to fall forward as will your weight. Once your weight starts moving forward, you'll release pressure on your back truck and COULD slide the back truck out. The best remedy for this is to find a point out beyond where the last cone is and sight out to that. This will keep your body more upright and keep traction flowing to your rear truck.
Also, try using angled raisers on both your trucks. Put them both on so the big part is toward the tail, adding steering to the front and taking steering out of the back. This might help remedy the problem of the back truck over turning which can sometimes happen causing the back wheels to slip.
If you try everything I've suggested and still have trouble, let me know.
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OK, Wheelbases
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On 4/10/2003
Dr P
wrote in from
(24.90.nnn.nnn)
I've tried the Cyber-Slalom Course on a board with a 23 1/2" wheelbase (and tracker fulls) and I keep blowing out. Now I know, OF COURSE, that it can't be just because I'm old, out of shape and new to slalom - I'ts the deck, Right! ;o)
What legnth boards do you use for different size courses? As the cones get closer, should my trucks get closer or just looser/turnier? Also, on very short wheelbases (25yr old orig. fibreflex) I seem to slide out. How do you balance truck placement and truck geometry?
Thanx.
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SlalomCross
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On 4/10/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(67.192.nnn.nnn)
John, I'm riding a board with a 23 1/4" from inner hole to inner hole. I bet I could go as long as 24" for those 7' gates...I can't wait for Saturday...it's gonna be a good time.
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john airey is satan?
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On 4/9/2003 Brady
wrote in from
(66.21.nnn.nnn)
Just kidding john but you have the dubious distinction of having post #666 on this forum.
I recieved some sage advice and will be buying used decks at TG `03. Got any old slalom setups for grassroots newbies, I`ll be buying them at TG`03.
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longest wheelbase through 7' cones
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On 4/9/2003
john airey
wrote in from
(63.113.nnn.nnn)
the slalomcross event has 7' cones to start?
(I'm not doing this race, just curious about some stuff).
mike,
what is the longest wheelbase you would comfortably
use to get through 7' cones?
also, mike, WIN!
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Mr. Mike Maysey
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On 4/9/2003
Leo
wrote in from
(146.18.nnn.nnn)
This is not a question or answer post, this is another of my thanksgiving posts.
Mike Maysey donated his Turner GS/Hybrid to me so i can have an extra deck to race at The Gathering.
Mike HUGE THANKS TO YOU my friend, that was one of my dreamed boards(after the needlenose)
Now my smile its freezed in my face :)
Best wishes to you!!!!!!!
Leo
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Travelling
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On 4/9/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(65.234.nnn.nnn)
Well get those pictures to me ASAP and I'll check out your setups.
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Traveling
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On 4/9/2003
Leo
wrote in from
(146.18.nnn.nnn)
Mike, love to do that, but its difficult enough to arrange the travel plans for TG3.
i´ll take pics soon.
Leo
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speedfreaks video
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On 4/9/2003
JRC
wrote in from
(63.93.nnn.nnn)
santa cruz re-released 3 of there old videos. speedfreaks, wheels on fire, and streets of fire. i got my copy for christmas from old star skateshop. they have all 3 videos in stock. www.oldstarskateshop.com is there web address. hope that helps and thanks mike for answering my question.
THANKS
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Video
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On 4/8/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(67.192.nnn.nnn)
...no clue on that one...Simon, you out there? Do you know where there might be reserves of that vid?
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speedfreak
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On 4/8/2003 hc
wrote in from
(207.212.nnn.nnn)
where do i get this video?
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Leo's Woes
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On 4/8/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(65.234.nnn.nnn)
I don't know Leo...can you come to San Francisco in a couple weeks and skate with me? I could probably help you sort it out.
Better yet...can you take some digital pictures of your board and email them to my email address? I could look them over and see if I notice anything out of wack.
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simon levene in speedfreaks
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On 4/8/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(65.234.nnn.nnn)
JRC, Slalom can be done anywhere there happens to be enough space to safely put down cones. When I first started, I skated mostly on flat ground so I could learn the proper way to generate speed. Flat ground and slight incline slalom are some ways I use to train. The majority of the races in the US are done on hills of varing pitches and surfaces.
Simon is a master of generating speed...I learned a lot from him a year ago when I was lucky enough to skate with him a few times before the first stop of the 2002 FCR Tour.
Cheers!
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Leo's starter deck
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On 4/8/2003
Julius
wrote in from
(199.2.nnn.nnn)
Leo, regarding the deck with Indy 101's.
My set up with indy's include longer kingpins
front and rear. This will give you more range for
bushing adjustment and should eliminate the tippy / wheelbite issues. The stock kingpins seem short
for loose set ups ( end of threads ) What do you think Mike?
Works for me ! Good luck in Paso !
Ride on Leo !
J.
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Bahne (slalom starter deck actually)
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On 4/8/2003
Leo
wrote in from
(146.18.nnn.nnn)
Mike, Alan Sidlo donated 3 SSD and some 110 seismics.
i setup the decks as follows:
1.- Deck with indys 101 blue doh-doh´s front and yellow in back, with la costas 78a and abec5 speedmaster bearings. 1 angled riser on each truck PLUS wheel wells
2.-Deck with Fultracks with blue doh-dohs front and blue doh doh on bottom and the big stock bushing with the edges, rounded on top on the back truck, same wheels and bearings. it has one 3/8 and 1 angled riser on each truck.
3. deck with seismics front andback, both yellow springs, same wheels. 3/8 risers on each truck.
if i pump them real hard i would get wheelbite in all of them, or again ig i tighten the trucks the back wheels lieft from the ground.
Leo
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simon levene in speedfreaks
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On 4/8/2003
JRC
wrote in from
(63.93.nnn.nnn)
mr. maysey,
i'm new to slalom and i've had this question for a while and i figured you could help me out. ok, well, i always thought that slalomers ran cones down some sort of a hill or bank so you could keep your speed. then i saw simon levene's(sp?) part in speedfreaks, and he's just running cones in some school yard, no banks or hill, just flat ground, and he's hauling; i was perplexed by how fast he was going under his own power. ever since then i've wondered which way is the right way to slalom or most popular these days or whatever, i'm just clueless about everything and need some direction. anything you could offer or anyone else would be great.
THANKS
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Paso Prelim
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On 4/7/2003
Associated Press Field Reporter
wrote in from
(64.161.nnn.nnn)
I second Sgt. Holl's comments - it was a very fun morning of hill activity for everyone. Definitely, a good vibe. The Turner boys got there very early to set the Faux Pas(o) course before the Comet Bomb Squad rolled up rather late (imagine that!) for some equally fast descents...thanks to Mike, Erik, John and Gary for setting it all up.
Clayton, Jonathan and Jason are in fine form given their recent break from riding - and then there is Sully, channeling his many years of race honed mountain bike killer instinct, he is loaded for bear and his new secret prototype Comet long raceboard didn't hurt either - he will be a major force at Paso - just you wait and see...
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SF Practic
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On 4/7/2003 Gary H.
wrote in from
(17.219.nnn.nnn)
Had a blast with Mike and the Comet crew...practicing for Paso yesterday.
Mike thanks.
all you NorCal riders better sign up for the G/S slalom race on May 4th...it's part of the Gravity Festival. Sign up on the Contest Calendar Page.
Mike is signed up why aren't you?
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Wheelbite
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On 4/7/2003
mike maysey
wrote in from
(65.234.nnn.nnn)
Hey Leo, one more thing. You might want to try changing the bushings in your trucks. If you still have the stock ones that might explain why you have to have them so loose to make 6' gates. Try the Bones Hardcore bushings. I used the Yellows in the back and Blues in the front...I weigh about 175lbs. You might want to adjust the softness/hardness of the bushings based on your body weight.
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that was i wanted to say
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On 4/7/2003
leo
wrote in from
(146.18.nnn.nnn)
ehm, ok
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