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| Q&A: Michael Brooke - Publisher, Concrete Wave Magazine (7141 Posts)
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Santa is a longboarder!
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On 12/17/2007 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.198.nnn.nnn)
http://www.sidewalkmag.com/magazine/sidewalk-magazine-issue-135
Also, check the sliding pic on Cliff's forum.
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More Roxy and Industry
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On 12/17/2007
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
SteveC wrote: "Business is really cutthroat and if you are not a demonstrated neccesity then you get dropped." In the interest of this Thread, the above statement was geared towards the riders of these companies, and its 100% true. However, in the interest of the industry and market, this also could be said of the companies themselves. Consumers make the world go round, if the companies cant deliver what the consumer market is tending toward, then they can likewise be left out in the cold. case 1) In the "team rider versus company", the company is essentially the customer of the team rider. The customer dictates the rules and holds the cards. case2) In the "consumer versus the companies/market", the consumer is the customer. The customer dictates the rules and holds the cards. I dont see how this works fine for case 1, but for case 2 everyone gets all up in arms. So, in this case, Isabelle has been thru a situation in which the customer has made decisions regarding their riders. Yet, if the consumers do an about-face on Roxy, Roxy gets all antsy. Its a double standard. They talk marketing-marketing-marketing, yet when the tables are turned, they will cry even louder.
When you play in the big mainstream market, it works both ways. But for some reasons the companies dont see that.
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roxy
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On 12/15/2007 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.198.nnn.nnn)
If you compare quiksilver vs roxy's website...
Roxy doesn't really feature their riders, I don't even see a skate team.
Do women go to core shops to get their Roxies?
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Industry crap
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On 12/15/2007
Steve C.
wrote in from
United States
(72.55.nnn.nnn)
I have to say, my two previous posts in no way reflect my personal feeling about this stuff. It was written in a strictly business perspective. As a consumer (or sponsored rider) you have to be careful who you support. There is a trap for riders who get hooked up with these companies. I read an interview with Bam Margera shortly after quicksilver aquired Element skateboards.
There were a lot of people who were really bummed by this event. When asked about it Bam replied that he thought it was really great, because now Element had much more finacial resources. And these resources would allow the team riders more oppurtunities to travel, enter contests, and just live better by being pro skaters. Interesting. One thing he did not mention was the fact that the riders had much more pressure on them to produce or they faced the prospect of being dropped. Ouch. By the way, Natas Kaupas was (and I am not sure if he still is) the team manager at the time. Element has a great team to! But they are a giant corporation.
But is the corporate end of things all bad? I don't really think so. When I started skating sponsors did not even pay contest entry fees for their riders (mostly) and definately did not pay for travel expenses or per diem (food and stuff). The world has definately changed. I would imagine that most of the small companies and ones that are starting up have a much harder time finding good riders for their teams because of this. Why would someone put all their work into riding for a company that can only give them boards or wheels when they can ride for a company and get product, a paycheck, and the ability to travel? But riding for these larger corporations puts your head on the chopping block everyday. And their are always kids who are hungry and want your job.
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Skateboarding in General!
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On 12/15/2007
Cknuck/claude Regnier
wrote in from
Canada
(216.58.nnn.nnn)
Unfortunately except for a few people in the industry the skateboard community never cared about this portion (Isabello wrote "social responsibility exists, even in our skate world!?) for promotion and growth.
They never card about anything but $$$$. It's the guys that loved and demonstration their passion for the sport that helped it grow.
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Big Companies
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On 12/15/2007
Flindt
wrote in from
United States
(75.4.nnn.nnn)
I agree M.BROOKE, those big companies pay my little bro a lot of money to take pics of their surfers! I like the quote from Einstien. I worked for SURFING MAGAZINE for for 3 years, so I understand what you are sayinG! Thanx for having 14 pages of downhill skateboarding in the next issue!
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more thoughts
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On 12/15/2007
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(65.95.nnn.nnn)
You know, I read a great quote today...it's from Einstein...he had it on his wall at Princeton: I think it holds true for this discussion: NOT EVERYTHING THAT COUNTS CAN BE COUNTED, AND NOT EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE COUNTED COUNTS. I urge you to read that sentence a few times...reflect on what it means. The fact is that Quiksilver, Billabong, Nike, DC didn't become success stories overnight. They relied on a network of passionate folks and stores. (who by the way, weren't selling their products initially). I know business is tough - I know it's cut throat...it's always been that way. But, by choking the very shops that supported you, these companies are sqandering the future of action sports. I don't need skateboarding to be mass marketed 100%. There are plenty of mass marketed sports and hobbies. Again, I remind you of what the HEAD of Quik said: WITHOUT THE CORE SHOPS WE'VE GOT NOTHING.
It boils down to $$$$ I respect comanies that are profitable and who take a long term view of things. Quiksilver makes great products, has great marketing and does some incredible things for skateboarding and surfing....but I just get the feeling that they want to seem like a hip, trendy and cool business while secretly they are out dominate and squeeze every dollar out of sale. I know it's "just business" but I prefer to work with folks who are in the business of being just....or at least make an effort to be...
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Whats real ?
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On 12/14/2007 Kludy
wrote in from
United States
(68.8.nnn.nnn)
Just makes me Sad ! True that, very real about making money and why they do what they do.
Market Place is for real Not that many years back some companys could have never been able to come close to the bucks they need to pay for them ( BIG NAMES )
I run on passion more than brains so I have no worries sharing right now.
Have no facts and thats my bad .
ON A ROLL TONIGHT, HA!
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Isabelle
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On 12/14/2007
Steve C.
wrote in from
United States
(72.55.nnn.nnn)
My point is just this, unless you are making a company tons of cash your head is on the block. That sucks for the girls who were relying on the money, but I bet CB and Jen had some back up sponsors. It is hard to be involved in something that is so important to you and be at the mercy of a large corporation who only cares about the bottom line. People get dumped from teams all the time, it is the nature of the beast. And my conciet? Just being real.
Business is really cutthroat and if you are not a demonstrated neccisity then you get dropped. It is the nature of the beast. Reality: male street skaters make up so much more of the market than females(street or otherwise) it makes good sense to try and appeal to that market. Has the female market grew? Yes. Does it make up more than 10% of the market? Probably not. These are jsut statistics talking, and I am not trying to get all mad at anyone. Just consider this. I would imagine quicsilver/roxy traded in the stock enchange? Yes. They have a responsibility to their shareholders to turn a profit. If firing some people and bringing on new blood makes business sense they have a obligation to do it. The corporation serves the shareholder NOT the employee. This is all I am saying. I am sure they did plenty of market research before firing people. That's business. If you think that business cares about social responsibility I encourage you to take some business courses. Small businesses can do this stuff, corporations cannot. It is the beast.
NOTE: this all applies to everyone not just you! If you work for someone you are basically their whore(male or female, this word is not being used in any sort of sexist context. If you go to work for someone else you basically do what they want to get paid), and when you don't earn they put you on the street. Harsh? Yes. But it is the nature of business.
Most skaters get screwed by the business end of things. Most people don't ride for a company their whole life. Hell in real life I have been fired and lost jobs due to restructuring. Why should skating be any different?
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Hot?
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On 12/14/2007 isabelle
wrote in from
United States
(209.66.nnn.nnn)
steve, you are absolutey right.....as i stated ME skating for them was very trivial, BUT you missed the point....JEN O' was one of the non-street skaters that Roxy dropped along with my trivial ass AND both JEN and CB have been burned by for-profit-only companies. they WERE at ground zero AND were still dumped - deeply hurt both emotionally and financially from it! so it's NOT about one's ability as an athelete, but the ability of a company to respect and support those that helped them get big. you read way too deep between my line i think maybe your conceit got confused on me!?
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DC and roxy
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On 12/14/2007
Steve C.
wrote in from
United States
(72.55.nnn.nnn)
Why do companies go into business? To stay small and service the fewest possible people? Do any of you have a business background? DC makes shoes, snowboard boots, motocross gear. This company got to where it is by sponsoring sick riders and marketing. Danny and Colin are shrewd business men and they have made a ton of loot. Plus they have one of the best teams out there. Have you seen the DC Video? The shi t is sick. Have you seen any of the DC snowboard videos? Sick, so sick.
And Isabelle, nothing personal, but a company does not make money sponsoring relatively unknown skaters with no real market value. That is reality. Reality is unless you can skate like Cara Beth or Jen O'brien you are not that marketable. I know you skate Isabelle but you are not the hottest of commodities. Don't take this the wrong way, but sponsoring some well known street kid(even if he is an a s s) is a much better business decision. The company we are talking about is not your local shop, it is a large corporation whose sole purpose is to make money. Boycott if you want but it is just a red versus black issue to them. Loyalty is not a big part of the corporate world. If you expect more than you are kind of stupid. The reality is they used you, you got free product, and when it did not make business sense they dropped you. Why is that so hard to understand? Especially when there are much more marketable people out there.
Do you really think you helped put them "on top." How much money did that company make by sposoring you? In comparison to the peron they picked up probably a minimal amount. Did you win any high profile pro contests? Did you get coverage in any of the main stream media? Probably not.
Don't feel bad, it is a business decision and the s#@! happens all the time. Were you completely relying on the support you got or did you just like having free stuff? Did you work on marketing other than telling people you were sponsored by them?
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Big names blowing it
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On 12/14/2007 Kludy
wrote in from
United States
(216.70.nnn.nnn)
DC shoes is one of them, they got to wear they are with the small time skaters.
Now they just dont care.
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as consumers as independent media, we have SOME power!
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On 12/14/2007
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(65.95.nnn.nnn)
I would love to see skateboarding return to what it used to be...but I am realist. The truth is that if you are corporation listed on a stock exchange, you have to deal with increasing shareholder value.
Increasing share holder value was never a big part of skateboarding...it is soon becoming everything.
Some of the big brands can be bullies...they have the small indy shops on a tight leash...because they know those shops need the products to keep the lights on.
I hope a backlash ensues against those brands that forgot what got them there in the first place.
Enough already!
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Big Uns - ROXY/QS
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On 12/14/2007 isabelle
wrote in from
United States
(209.66.nnn.nnn)
"This seems like a slap in the face to the very people who got you to where you are now." this is very characteristic behavior of Roxy/Quiksilver and for that DON'T EVER BUY their products. a bit of trivia history, i rode for roxy for 2 years in the early 2000's and worked by butt off them promoting them in return for their sponsorship THEN they dropped ALL their female non-street skaters without warning mid-skate season stating monetary problems, BUT then(wtf) immediately picked-up a pro street skater (with major drug issues ie, not a good role model) without regard to all those who helped put them on top - the atheletes. so their normal business protocal seems to be - screw everyone but us, including those they market to.......hmmmmmmmmm......BOYCOTT ROXY AND QUIKSILVER and pass the word - social responsibility exists, even in our skate world!?
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Your Mag.
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On 12/14/2007
Kludy
wrote in from
United States
(216.70.nnn.nnn)
RACEN SKATEBOARDs IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
PLEASE DONT FORGET MY LOCAL MARKET IN LEMON GROVE CALF.
YOU MAG. SELLS OUT EVERY TIME.
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Roxy goes direct
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On 12/14/2007
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(65.95.nnn.nnn)
Just A Technical Glitch…or A Vicious Circle?
Transworld Business Magazine originally covered the story on blanks in 2006. In the fall of that year, a decision was made to develop a booklet was meant to counterbalance the impact of blanks. At the beginning of 2007 there was a tremendous uproar as a result of the booklet entitled “Industry Under Fire,” the argument set forth was that if shops and consumers continued to purchase blank decks and don’t support pro decks, then skateboarding would die. (there would be no more pros, no more magazines, no more dvd’s). The backlash was severe from both shops and skaters. People were incensed by the hypocrisy and sheer arrogance of the industry’s position. Among the highlights of the backlash: skaters were incensed at the World Industries ad chastising skaters for buying blanks and the world without pros website got parodied into a world without ceos. As predicted, the issue burned red-hot for a brief period and slowly petered out. Then it was back to business as usual. Well, maybe not so usual. Skate retailers realized that skaters would speak up for their right to do business however they saw fit. Blanks or pro models – what was important was the choice to sell both, if necessary.
So now we come to another piece in Transworld that in many ways is even more contentious than the “war on blanks.” Recently Transworld reported that Quiksilver’s Roxy division had set up on-line to go direct to consumers. This is not something new. What is new was their decision to remove any affiliates from their site. At the Quiksilver, Burton and Billabong sites, if you want to buy something, you are automatically linked to a number of shops (ie K-Five, Val Surf, Swell) who will sell to you direct. It is worth noting that at the Burton site, you have the choice whether you want to order from direct from Burton. Again, the crucial word here is choice. If you want to order direct, you can. If you prefer to deal with an online shop you already have bought from before, then it’s your prerogative.
When Marty Samuels, President of Quiksilver, Americas Region was asked about the absence of the affiliates, his response was telling:
How have your online affiliates responded so far?
“Unfortunately we had a little technical glitch when we came online and the affiliate links were not accessible, but that was never our intent and when we went to talk to our guys we told them that and we’re fixing that. Certainly we will not go live with the Quiksilver piece until we have that nailed. We still want to have the affiliate programs. I’ve looked at company’s like Burton and Patagonia that have been at it longer and I think they have some interesting things they’re doing to make it beneficial to retailers as well. We’re looking at those things, and not just those things. We’re looking into some other ways to do things that are positive.”
Well, it’s been over 8 weeks since the technical glitch appeared and the affiliates are still nowhere to be seen on the site. From my experience, a technical glitch is a page not loading fast enough or flash not working correctly. Removing your entire affiliate program seems like a pretty big “technical glitch.” What it seems like to me is that this an effort to cut out those folks who have helped build your brand.
Of course, what’s really driving this is money, pure and simple. Roxy is not a difficult brand to find and they spend millions on marketing. If you live anywhere in the Greater Los Angeles Area, there are over 35 places to buy Roxy. As Quik is a public company with revenues of a billion plus dollars, it’s all about getting the most stuff out there, the most profitable way possible. Again, I am not naďve to think that companies should not go direct. If you can’t get the stuff you want from a local retailer, then you sometimes have no choice. But if someone is already on-line, why cut out the affiliates? This seems like a slap in the face to the very people who got you to where you are now. I consider this the thin edge of the wedge and it is a very worrisome trend indeed.
I originally wanted to call this piece “Phoenix’s Still Get Burned” because I am amazed at the resilience of the independent skate and surf retailers. They have been bullied for carrying products like blanks and shop decks. They have seen a huge amount of their business go to big box shops and chains like Zumiez and Pac Sun and yet they remain committed to servicing their customers and keeping the magic alive. Yes, distribution plays a key part in how these brands are marketed. I am not pleased to see the action sports industry become just another commodity driven business run by beancounters, devoid of soul. Independent shops are the lifeblood of the industry because they take chances on new brands. They are hothouses of new ideas. But don’t take my words for it, look what Marty said in the same interview; “without the core shops we’ve got nothing.”
So, why screw again with a formula that works? Why mess up your relationships with the very people who have helped you succeed? Well, it’s like that old chestnut: “it’s nothing personal, it’s just business. I sense however, Quiksilver might regret this move and that a backlash is brewing. Tom Martin of Val Surf (the world’s first skate shop) was somewhat surprised by their actions. In his interview with Transworld he says: …one day we noticed that our affiliate traffic took a nose dive. So we went to roxy.com and found that customers could just buy straight from their site… many mouths dropped as we realized that our strongest affiliate traffic driver had cut us out of the loop without warning. They had told us that they had a new site in works a few months before, but there was no mention of selling direct.” Ouch and double ouch!
Like many retailers, Val Surf is pissed, but they are also realistic. As Tom notes: “they cut out the retailer. Plain and simple. Everyone knows that the future of retail is going to involve ecommerce more and more (in all industries, not just our own) … it’s just inevitable. And now we have a major vendor putting in motion a trend that will undoubtedly have vendors directly controlling a large fraction of retail down the road. And with the margins they’ll be making by selling direct, they’re just going to have more and more money to throw at it, making it even that much more difficult for a retailer to survive.”
He continues: “it’s about the biggest kick in the teeth they could give us. I think a lot of shop owners are still blind as to how much this is going to affect them in the years to come. The more digital the world goes, the more even the brick and mortar stores are going to be hurt by vendors selling direct. If someone can go straight to a vendor’s site and get everything they want shipped right to their door with no shipping and no tax (in some cases, depending on the state the vendor’s located), why come to us? After all, if a customer is looking to buy Roxy, and they type that into any search engine, who do you think is going to get that traffic? And thus the sale? Any vendor that goes this route is looking the corner the future market, plain and simple. From their perspective, it’s easy to see why they’re doing it. They’ll obviously make serious bank. But from a broad economic view, this trend (and I’m talking beyond the scope of our industry) will only squeeze out retailers… vendors will get bigger… more and more shops will close their doors… make the rich richer, and the poor poorer. Back to Ramen noodles from Costco.”
I think a number of skaters can identify with the plight of independent shops. Tom provides a detailed scenario of what is happening out there. To paraphrase it: as big vendors move towards selling direct and opening up their own shops, it squeezes out the sales that the core shops rely on to keep the lights on. The truth is that the smaller up and coming brands don’t bring in the sales the way the big brands do.
So, what is basically described as a technical glitch, is in fact something far greater. It’s a monumental shift in the way business is conducted. It was not surprising to read how annoyed Val Surf is with having a Burton/CI superstore located near his main shop. He senses something that many folks are starting to realize: Vendors will make serious bank online with their extremely high profit margins and low overhead. In turn that money will also fuel more vendor brick and mortar stores. It will become a vicious circle.”
__________________
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upcoming issue..
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On 12/14/2007
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(65.95.nnn.nnn)
we have a HUGE amount of speedboarding in the next issue.
over 14 pages of coverage!
it just kinda mushroomed!
all the best in 2008 to the readers here at the site, the readers of the actual mag and skaters everywhere.
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Happy Ho Ho from the SAMOAN
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On 12/12/2007 Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(66.91.nnn.nnn)
Yea that MAGAZINE Cover of Jason is TIGHT!@! y0
I'm working on getting on the Cover of the AARP. Wish me luck :)
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Merry Christmas
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On 12/12/2007 Eric Brassard
wrote in from
Canada
(207.134.nnn.nnn)
Merry Christmas Michael from Krispy hill racing team.
Eric
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thanks Rene!
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On 12/7/2007
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(65.95.nnn.nnn)
and Merry Christmas...
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Cool .....
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On 12/5/2007
Rene CANNONBALL Carrasco
wrote in from
United States
(71.133.nnn.nnn)
----------------------------------
Mike -
Happy 'Hanukkah' - brah !
Take care,
............-Rene C.
@ The Harbor Hundred.
---------------------------------------
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yes! we got that event covered, Cat
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On 12/3/2007
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(65.95.nnn.nnn)
yep, we're on it!
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slalom cover
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On 12/3/2007 fluitt
wrote in from
United States
(192.18.nnn.nnn)
Yeah that's a great cover shot of Me (with Mitch in the foreground). Good to see slalom getting the recognition it deserves, at least from ONE magazine! Way have some huevos (as we say in the southwest) Michael!
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Michael
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On 12/1/2007
Cat
wrote in from
United States
(67.117.nnn.nnn)
I just received my Concrete Wave--- nice job covering a wide variety of skating!
One thing, though.......... more girls!
We wanna see more girls covered in the mag.
Hope to see coverage of the Women's sk8 event that happened in Sao Paulo Brazil the weekend of Nov 10-11---- maybe in the next issue!
Thanks Michael .
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what's cooking
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On 11/28/2007
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(65.95.nnn.nnn)
I am currently watching this fascinating documentary called Death or Prison Evenutally (DOPE)
It features Bruce Logan, Dennis Martinez, Jay Adams and Christian Hosoi.
You can watch it for free here...
http://www.carangel.com/projects.html
Also, the January issue is coming together nicely...we have 2 major articles
one on the environment the other on downhillers
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