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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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re:Pumpable Skaterbuilt
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On 2/9/2005 Jim Richardson
wrote in from
United States
(67.100.nnn.nnn)
Ha... I have found the same thing to be true of my Skaterbuilt PIG... If you wanna turn it up a notch... throw a 169 hanger on the front.. try that setup with some Grippins... seriously... the center set design of the Grippins allows you to maintain plenty of clearance...... I am not sure what you'd need to do to fit a set of Avilas under there; but I have set mine up with Avalons (and ith MANX) all the way around and 169 hangers front and rear... I usually have a hard bushing next to the baseplate and a medium at the kingpin nut... The massive concave makes for a pumping machine... Skaterbuilt has GS and TS decks on the way .. hit their homepage to see em (and scoll down a little to see me running the PIG/Manx setup in a ditch slalom race :) would have doen alright if I hadn't overamped my first run and ended up bouncing off a utility pole haha )
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Pumpable Skaterbuilt
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On 2/7/2005 Tod
wrote in from
United States
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
PaulW,
No wedges just 9/16 risers and super loose trucks... A little push, two or three good arm swings and I'm roamin around the local street course to the strains of little kids yelling, "Get outta the way ya old fart!!"
Obviously, the top end is rather limited on this thing, but its proven to be good training for slalom. I've been doing laps around a pretty good size machine shed rehabing a tweaked knee and trying to stay halfway in shape through the winter, kind of like resistance training. The racing rigs ought to feel like toothpicks once I'm ready to pump one of those down the street again...
Kinda funny story...
The farmer that lets me ride inside his shed asked me what I was going to do when I first started going there. I explained slalom to him and that I needed to get my pump back in shape for racing. He responds, Here in Illinois, pumping is something that happens when the septic backs up :-)
I'm hoping he wasn't trying to be metaphoric...8^/ Later Tod
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Tod's 'Built
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On 2/7/2005
PaulW
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.19.nnn.nnn)
Tod> That 12" SB setup sounds near enough, dammit, to my own (I'm using SIMS The Wheel IIs though). Have you wedged the Indys? If so... how? I'm amazed that you're calling it an easy board to pump! -but I know what you mean about the momentum. It's a tank.
FWIW, I use a Fibreflex Mallard / Seismics / Hyper Stradas for transportation -nice, turny, pumpable combo. >Paul
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Responses to my posts
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On 2/2/2005 Alex
wrote in from
United States
(65.187.nnn.nnn)
I Just wanted to say a quick thank-you to those who responded to my posts. I appreciate your time.
-Alex
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@ Alex
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On 1/29/2005
Tod
wrote in from
United States
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
Alex,
To me this pumping thing really turns into a question of what are you willing to compromise on...top end speed, off the line acceleration, or maneuverability....?
It would be cool if truck geometries could be actively leaned out and wheelbase and wheel diameter could grow as you go faster. Kinda like shifting to higher gears on a bicycle. Maybe someday???
Although I have some nice slalom setups...
Oddly enough the easiest setup I have to pump on flat, and damn near from a dead stop, is a 12" Skaterbuilt pig w/ Indy 215s (bones hard bushings) and 65mm dubcons. (I should put a set of Avilas on it and see how that works?) . The 17" wheelbase and the indys geometry along with the truck load of leverage the wide deck offers make it easy to pump even though it’s the stiffest deck I’ve ever ridden. And once you get the big bad boy rollin the laws of physics keep it goin. LoL
I'm sure there will be a lot of personal preference type postings on this topic... I too am interested to read what others use to just cruz the flats with...
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Components for a great pumping board
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On 1/29/2005 Alex
wrote in from
United States
(65.187.nnn.nnn)
Everyone,
I'm interested in all of your ideas about what would make the best set-up for a pumping board. I know there are lots of variables involved, such as idividual rider weight etc., but I'm sure if everyone inputs their ideas, eventually there will be some general consensus as to which types of components will or will not work together to create at least, a good, if not great pumping system. Also, ideally the board should be fun and a good all around cruiser. I'm looking forward to reading all of your ideas.
As you may have noticed in my post below, I have not ridden in about 25 years, but I'm about to start again. Pumping interests me a lot (as does skogging), so I am trying to figure out what I am going to put together. My thoughts are based simply on doing some research, a little theoretical thinking, and a vague recolection of skating 25 years ago.
My novice ideas are as follows:
The deck should probably be resposive so that energy exerted into the deck will be used to propell the deck out of a turn, so I'm thinking at least a moderate amount of flexibility via possibly a composite material in combination with wood and with a camber in the deck, like an Insect deck or Loaded deck for example. It also sounds as though Chris Yandall has decks for sale that work quite well. Also, I'm not sure about deck length, but I suspect if it's too long it will be more difficult to get the energy response out of it due to its weight and size, for instance slolom boards tend not to be too long. I don't have any specifics about deck length yet, I hope you will. I'm guessing it's in the 35 to 45" range depending on rider height and weight. Shorter for better pumping, longer for more of a cruiser.
I'm not to sure about the trucks, wheels and bearings, but I'm thinking the trucks should be a quality, responsive truck like the Randal or Original trucks, I'm thinking maybe wider to keep the lateral movements under control, but no wider than necessary to do that. The wheels, I think should be sticky enough to keep lateral movement under control and a shorter profile may be easier to get moving and pump slower with, but a taller profile may go faster if you want to pump at higher speeds.
Anyway, those are my thoughts, I'm going to put something together and try it. What do you all think? I'm looking forward to reading all of your thoughts on system design. Maybe I'll find my ideas are completely wrong. What do you think?
-Alex
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Alex's Deck
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On 1/27/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(208.20.nnn.nnn)
Hi Alex,
I'm 45 and started skating again about 7 weeks ago. I'm 6'2 250lbs. I ride a Sector 9 Platinum series, "Bomb Hills, Not Countries". You can buy it complete and its a sweet ride. I bought my CY in the last month because I was having trouble pumping the S9. Its 46" vs 34" on the CY deck. The S9 Platinum Trilam is 38" with concave and camber. I haven't rode it myself but it looks to be a good all around board. Long enough to cruise and carve, with enough flex to make pumping manageable. I like my CY deck a whole lot. At 34" its just a the bottom of my comfort range lengthwise. I've been playing around w/ different wheels and risers and I've hit on a combo I like. CY is in the process of developing a 38" deck. I'll be getting one of those when they come out and passing the 34" on to my son at some point. Take a look at Landyachts, Dregs, Insect and Pocket Pistol boards too.
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard.
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Deck Design Questions
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On 1/27/2005 Alex
wrote in from
United States
(65.187.nnn.nnn)
Hi Everyone,
I'm planning on getting back into skateboarding after a 25 year absence, I'm 38 now. I'm not interested in doing anything crazy, but pumping and skogging interest me a lot, with downhill carving interesting me somewhat. I'd like opinions on optimum deck designs for my intersts and my physical build. I'm 6'-2" and 210 lbs, long legs.
I'm trying to decide on certain deck parameters such as length and flexibility. I think for my height and length of stride I would want a longer board with a minimum length of 38" or so. What do you think? Also, I am somewhat confused on the issue of flexibility in the deck. Would more flex be better or worse for pumping and how would it effect skogging? How does the flexibility of a deck effect general cruising and medium aggressive carving? Would more flexibiltiy be easier on the knees? Also, the board has to stand-up to my weight.
I'm leaning toward something in the 42"-46" range with 7-9 plys, a slight concave and a slight camber, but I'm open to suggestions. Would a kicktail interfere with skogging? Is this length too long for pumping?
Any suggestions on particular decks will be appreciated. I have checked-out Chris Yandall's deck on line, I'm concerned it may be a bit small for me, not sure though.
Thanks in advance for the advice,
Alex
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Still experimenting
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On 1/24/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(155.104.nnn.nnn)
I'm on to something. I removed the rigid angled risers on my CY deck and replaced them w/ 3/16" homemade rubber risers. I had some 8" x 8" x 3/16" sheets of rubber in my toolbox for some reason. Had them forever and finally found a use for them. Anyway after replacing the rigid wedges w/ the flat soft rubber the difference was definitely noticeable. I'm running 149mm Tracker Darts and the wedges made them really squirrelly, now they're very stable and plenty turny. The 70mm 78a Krypto Classic K's work terrific. I finally figured out the right movements and got the board geometry right. I can pump now. Man is that a good workout. Now for skogging. ;-)
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard!
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Insect BigBug and 3dm board
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On 1/23/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
hey tom, for me most any performance deck gets more pumpable with narrower trucks like 150mm or less, and smaller wheels like 65-70mm if you're on a lot of flats. That 83mm wheel diameter + 180mm truck requires a higher 'base' speed to keep an efficient pump. I use larger truck+wheel combos for downhill carving and go smaller hardware for flatland cruising.
Maybe others have better experience pumping on large wheels but I also find it demands the faster initial speeds...or when you're specializing for short, intense sprints (the new Abec11 77mm Strikers are a good example of this...)
Rode 3dm's GS Hybrid a while last year and found the deck incredibly pumpable for shorter distances -- super light & responsive. I'd expect their new models to be just as hot.
Still, that BigBug is a sweeeet deck! -- I got an Insect Dragonfly and a Roe CrossFire -- both from the shop in Seattle... before you buy that 3dm I'd try out the smaller hardware and see if it works for ya?
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3dm board
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On 1/23/2005
tommeakin
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.79.nnn.nnn)
hey,
i have a 44" insect bigbug, on which i have learned to pump, but i can only seem to pump at running speed upwards, is this normal? I dont think my board is really not set up for pumping though, i have 180 seismics and 83mill flywheels on it.
To get to the main point of my post: i am looking at the new 38"(i think) board from 3dm, and i was wondering how well that board would pump, as it would be a definate campus cruiser and i want something that is pumpable. Does anyone have any knowledge of this board?
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RE: Hey Jack in Bor(Aurora) :D
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On 1/19/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(208.20.nnn.nnn)
Your 34 works for big feets too. I got sz 13 gunboats and they fit that deck great. It'll also support 250 lbs and still flex back out of turns. You need to post some testomonials on your site.
I gotta agree Aurora isn't the most exciting place on earth. I'll bet its grown some though since you lived here. There's a housing and shopping developement where Stapleton airport used to be and Aurora stretches all the way down south to Parker and east almost to Watkins. They're going to build a minor league stadium on the corner of Alameda and Buckley Rd. just outside Buckley AFB. I don't get that at all. If I want to watch farm league ball I can go see the Rockies play.;-) Maybe they'll put in a garage for parking! I'm scouting hills in these new developements so I can ride them before the area gets occupied. Denver skatepark is pretty cool. My son and I have left some skin there for old times sake. I'm looking forward to visiting California this summer. My wife grew up in Burbank and I grew up in and around San Pedro. My brother in law skates too. His old Logan Earthski is hanging in his garage. Snow in the city is for the birds. At least in California snow stays in the mountains where it belongs.
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard.
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Hey Jack in Bor(Aurora) :D
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On 1/19/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(63.196.nnn.nnn)
Thanks for the kudos on my 34" . It is a cool all around board for smaller feets and it looks like it might be a good downhill board. I just attedded the Pumphouse contest in Poway. See the "slalom" thread and scroll back for pictures and the average board lengths were 30-34" .
I'm rounding out my deck line to hang in the 34-38" x 9-10 wide skogging/pumping tools.
BTW, I used to live in Aurora back in the early to mid 80's . But we called it Bor-Aurora . I'm sure it's more interesting these days and with you pumpers out there, you all should spice up the sidewalks/streets!
My oldest daughter is living with my first wife near downtown Denver. She's skoggin/pumpin too and frequents some skatepark near there. She's an avid snowboarder and is looking to get involved with the race scene. She has the go-got-it attitude daddy has even to this very day!
If you got a crew, I'm sure she'd love to hookup. Let me know!
cYa
< br>
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CYa's 34" deck
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On 1/19/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(208.20.nnn.nnn)
The weather here in Aurora, Colorado has cleared and warmed up the last few days enough to melt the snow on my favorite skate spot. I tried my new CY 34x9 deck out w/ some Avilas I'd bought and getting the board to pump wasn't working. I traded those out w/ Krypto classic K's 70mm 78a and they're much better. I'm starting to feel like I'm getting the pumping movement down. Keeping it up over distance is much harder. The smaller, narrower wheels are also better for skogging (learning that too). I tried skogging last night with both sets of wheels and couldn't get used to the Avilas. The Avilas now have a new home on my longboard. I took that setup out for a ride last night around the neighborhood and I really like it. Those big Avilas really give my longboard some speed and just eat up road junk like its nothing. I'm looking forward to summertime so I get on some hills with it.
Anyway, anybody out there looking for a new all-around deck can't go wrong with one of CY's decks.
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard.
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Skogging Needs it's Own Category
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On 1/17/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Hey Derek!
Great balls of fire, skogging can get you higher!
Getting pedidexterity, pedidextrous or pedipumpous :D are words that seem to be crawling out of this skogging dimension. It is simply cross country skateboarding. A neat way to peddle your skateboard prowess into the massess that love to snowboard, surf, etc.
And yes, mixing up a skog and deck pumping is a claim to this unique skateboard fame for any explorer kickin down long flat smoooooth roads.
You heard it here first!
cYa
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skogging
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On 1/14/2005
derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
hey chris yandall-
i tried out the skogging gig this morning on my 60" flexdeck. My first impressions were that it's pretty dang efficient, that there are some funky grooves you can get into, and there are lots of intriguing directions you could take this study. thanks for the cool ideas.
I also like how it forces a rider like me to deal with my sissy left foot, and make a man out of it.
i like your ideas, and i'm gonna check this out some more. Skogging seems like a perfect way to ease into a long distance pumping groove, and a good, efficient motion to fall into when your feet do feel like touching the ground.
peace out,
derek munson
derek@pavedwave.com
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RE:34" CYa set-up
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On 1/13/2005
Jack Merica
wrote in from
United States
(192.35.nnn.nnn)
Hey Steve,
I got my CYa 34" deck yesterday. I spent my lunch hour going into Denver to the shop I frequent (shameless plug for Thrifty Stick http://www.thriftystick.com/ they're great) and had my deck griptaped. After talking it over w/ the shop tech and consulting my funds I decided on 149mm Trackers to go with my Avilas. I used to skate nothing but Trackers and after stopping at a 3 story garage on the way back to work I have to say I'm pleased w/ the combination. Bones Swiss bearings really give that deck some speed and angled risers gave me the turning response I was hoping for. If the Trackers don't work out I'll get the Randal 150's when I get my taxes back.
Cheers,
Jack
"God rides a Longboard."
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cYa Pumpin' the Groove, y0
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On 1/12/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Cool to see the yikyak on the deck but really.. I prefer the 38x9.5.
I'll be walking around the action sports show with my new deck that the sector 9 backroom dudes are helping me put together. It's a 38" special pushing around 10" inches wide with a heavy concave that actually flips up to 9.5 and a much wider tail. 7 ply is about right, 8 ply is still too stiff. while the world looks real flexy, it aint! it's actually being tweaked from compressing lots of lbs. I guess playing around with the veneers to be thinner or thicker and use more or less laminates will be this years R&D stretch to see what turns my pumping deck erect :D
I did the Crystal Pier to South Mission Jetty boardwalk skate today. The rains kept me pentup too long and I felt like a caged tiger being unleashed on the boardwalk. I plan this weekend to hit the ASR show and later don in Mission Beach do some skogging and deck pumping video's to try and highlight more movement. It's truly a great way to exercise along with skogging. And yes, skogging takes a bit of nerves and skill to maintain a nice clip but after you get it down, and feel like you're ready to bust down the steep and deep of the ski bumps.. your suddenly realize it only turns out to be a smooth flat surface that you determine how razor sharp it is by kickin up the speeds from your skate prowess. Pumpin and Skoggin are some keywords to cross country skateboarding. A swell concept to get clever exercise and maintain skills for snowboarding, downhilling, skating vert, rollerskating, skiing and juggling :D
Cheers you all!
KEEP ON PUMPIN' IT!
Chris Yandall
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pumping grooves
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On 1/9/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
YA Steve - slaloming around obstacles and pedestrians can be fun. I haven't tried it to waltzes, but the 5/4 signature from Brubeck's "Take Five" has that feel and makes for a good groove!
For long distance rides I've settled deep into Funk and Soul...as with freestyle riding where "dance" can be key to the art, I find music and rhythm is integral to distance riding as well. Having that wide open trail, you don't get a line of cones out in front to set your carve/pace line, but with James Brown laying it down, you don't need em!
btw, that sidecar thing sounds wicked. I'm not in the HB area but if I can make a trip down from Seattle this spring or summer I'll let you know -- that would be a blast!
peters @ pavedwave.com
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edit my description
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On 1/5/2005 anDrew
wrote in from
United States
(67.161.nnn.nnn)
whoops, no edit funtions.
meant to say the 36" tahoe board has a flat center press and just a little "concave" at the edges, scratch the word camber.
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Steve and Peters posts
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On 1/5/2005
anDrew
wrote in from
United States
(67.161.nnn.nnn)
Excellent writes! Thanks for the mix of strenghts. I still like my 33.75 CYa board though i think i'll try Steve's use of the rand150s on it and kiro bushings, drop the gumballs for non-high speeds and swap over to my only set of grippins onto it. (yup need more wheels)
...... first off, have to say seeing pic of crazy Chris on a unicycle, downhill-off road!! wow dude your killing me! :)
I've gotten progressive positive results lately, and growing a bit more confident these days vs. my first post trials on pumping... last 5-6 sessions i've been feeling the most comfortable on a 36" "North Shore" 7ply board 21" wb that i bought here in da buysell forum -great deal great board... This has a little flex and only ~1.5" of the edges being gently cambered. It's a nice overall board for recreation.
I also find that my road/mtb spin sence fit in well to accentuate my pump skills
and as Peters points out, burn the butt/quads for sprints and the Abs mid section burns for prolonged smooth fast pump distances.
Steve (quote) put it perfect here:
"I generate most of my pumping power from my hips and thighs by "counter pushing" pressure between my right and left feet. I'm regular stance (L-F, R-R), so to generate speed turning right, I push my front foot into the turn to the right, and at the same time put a little pressure on the rear of the deck to the left. I do both of these with mostly toe-weighting. When turning left, I put more power to my heels, pulling the nose of the deck to the left and pushing out (or right) with my rear heel.
When putting it all together, I try to keep everything as "circular" as possible. I also am a mountain/road bicyclist, so I think of pumping as "spinning", moving from one turn to the next with little or no breaks. Think of it as carving a perfect wave pattern, or the side of an infinity symbol."
Now I am attempting to dabble in beginner downhill slalom with MJ and Nick as guides here in San Jose... 1 goofy fall already... lots o learning to go!!
Thanks -Drew
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34" CYa & Peters Post
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On 1/5/2005
Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Ya, ya Peters! I dig it. Pumping is like a dance, and you'll use different moves/muscles at different speeds & terrains. I even use a Waltz pattern, especially when on one of the paths near our house. There are both pedestrian and path obsticles (high cracks, puddles, sand patch, rocks, etc...) which dictate a One-Two-Three-Coast, One-Two-Three-Coast pattern.
If you're in the HB area, see if C.Chaput has his sidecar complete, and then we'll get some REAL footage!
-=S=-
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RE: 34" CYa set-up
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On 1/5/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
I agree Steve, circles, ovals, parabolas, even mobius loops - a predictable carving pattern is good! What's really worked well for me on a combination pump + perpetual carving -- at least on uphills and flats, is finding a rhythm that's easy to maintain and picks up a lot of speed with a higher cadence, or frequency of pump. That's where having some good tunes comes in... you forget you're on a deck sometimes, as if you're just floating (at 15-20mph!)
Our most efficient, maintainable "grooveboarding" sessions seem to be right in the center... We've found that burning leg and butt muscles will produce fast sprinting results, but for the long haul, I believe if after a really loooooong pump session your ABS are burning, then you're finding just the right groove.
Upper body and arm swinging can definately be lost energy, but I think that the high gears are at your center, and that’s where your energy can be concentrated for more efficient, deep grooves. So for uphills, transitions, and starting from a standstill, extended reach really comes into play. At this stage in our riding, it seems like that’s the best place to find the energy for acceleration.
Then once you reach a higher cadence, a tight circular "Shadow Boxing" style of arm movement just helps perpetuate the carving/pumping that much more -- the rest is all up to how long your feet and mid-section can hold out!
Derek and I have put together just a few vids on some of these techniques but in a couple future installments will add some where we're capturing more of these "tight" grooves. It's kind of hard to film because when we hit the deeper grooves, the cameraman can't keep up! Which is why a good amount of our video footage is still just feedback on how to *build up* to the most efficient groove - we still gotta capture the real thang!
peters
www.pavedwave.com
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RE: 34" CYa set-up
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On 1/5/2005
Jack Merica
wrote in from
United States
(192.35.nnn.nnn)
Thanks Steve I'm having a blast. Coaching my son is a little vexing. He has some minor balance issues, but overall he is doing very well. After reading your post and watching CY pump in the clip on his website I'm beginning to picture what I need to do. It looks similar to weighting/unweighting in turns when parallel skiing. As I don't ski with poles I'll try that technique along with your tip.
Cheers,
Jack
God rides a Longboard.
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34" CYa set-up
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On 1/5/2005
Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Welcome back, Jack!
I love my CYa deck, and I've tried running a number of different combinations of wheels and trucks on it. The 150mm RII's are a very good choice, but may seem a bit wide with the Avilas. I'm running 135mm widths with the Avilas and those are plenty wide. Your set up will also give you the flexability to run other wheels...like Manx or Grippins...and that will narrow your stance a tiny bit, as well as give you quicker "start ups" on your pumps.
AFA being a UA, I wouldn't know what that's like. But pumping is more about where and how you put pressure or force onto the surface of the deck, and how that pressure or force affects the wheels and the side-load traction they encounter with the ground. I generate most of my pumping power from my hips and thighs by "counter pushing" pressure between my right and left feet. I'm regular stance (L-F, R-R), so to generate speed turning right, I push my front foot into the turn to the right, and at the same time put a little pressure on the rear of the deck to the left. I do both of these with mostly toe-weighting. When turning left, I put more power to my heels, pulling the nose of the deck to the left and pushing out (or right) with my rear heel.
When putting it all together, I try to keep everything as "circular" as possible. I also am a mountain/road bicyclist, so I think of pumping as "spinning", moving from one turn to the next with little or no breaks. Think of it as carving a perfect wave pattern, or the side of an infinity symbol. For us non-UA's, we get the feeling of this by keeping our hands either at our sides or behind our backs (Hollien Style!)
Arm waving may get you started, but good technique and strong quads/calves/glutes will keep you going.
Anything to add, fellow pumping dudes/dudettes?
-=S=-
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How to Pump