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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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Pumper
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On 4/26/2004 SJ Ryan
wrote in from
(12.76.nnn.nnn)
Hey Silversurfer, not to seem like i stalker but i know from previous posts that you and i have the same Bahne black hill (seismic, rt-s?). this is actually a great board to learn to pump on. i'm not too good at describing the mechanics of pumping, but ive found this particualar set-up likes your front foot right behind the front truck and the back foot directly over the rear. the bahne may not have the top end pumping speed of a loaded or something like that, but the shorter wheelbase and snappy flex give you decent acceleration. so far i've pumped for 2 miles on flat ground without touching a foot to the ground on the black hill.
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the Wicked...
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On 4/26/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(216.80.nnn.nnn)
...was designed to provide an ergonomic fit. I'm still refining the shape trying to be able to eek out the maximum amount of energy from whatever was originally expended.
The first thing you might notice when standing on this board is that whatever stance you choose, goofy or regular (parallel works, but differently) your front foot's toes are lifted with a lower heel while your back foot's heel is lifted and the toes are low. The reasoning behind this is simple. If you stand with your feet shoulder length apart and turn either direction so your hip is at about a 45º angle... Do you notice what your feet want to do?
There is a crescent shaped shadow that you will see at about three quarters up the front. This concave area gets progressively steep toward the apex of that curve which acts as a foot hook.
The flame like wings make this skinny deck ride a lot wider but they are also actually wheel wells though the trucks are mounted too far back (for La Costa) in this picture. They also have differing elevations for variations in one's stance.
There is a partial "beam" that runs up the center which not only acts as a pediform/arch support, but also moves the flex from the skinnyest section to a point just below the crescent (or the widest part of the deck). To the untrained eye it may seem more like an evenly flexing deck.
This one is carbon made with an eight ply maple core that was a flipped out old rocker from '75. My latest one's will be wood core foam w/carbon laid up from scratch.
Some people take dismiss this thing as a piece of art. While another guy tried to claim that they had something to do with this deck's development. All I know is that this shape is a happy combination of me going crazy with a sander and then having the experience to realize of understanding just what might I have, but after setting foot on the very first prototype I have to admit that me and my buddy were stunned.
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Wicked!
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On 4/26/2004 SS
wrote in from
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
Tell me more about the Wicked. What is it made of? Size? Camber? It looks almost like a two piece deck. How exactly does it work? What components do you use on it? What type of skating do you do with it?
BTW, Alan I think your SlideGear looks really cool, too.
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Psidlo's board
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On 4/26/2004 Dave G
wrote in from
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
What Alan said!! To this day I like my Wicked as well as any other of my 20 slalom decks for pumping on flat!!And that circular thangy will make you Whacky
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Oh and your board is WICKED!
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On 4/26/2004 SS
wrote in from
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
psYchOLoyd, I weigh about 170 lbs. if that helps.
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Learn to Pump Board
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On 4/26/2004
SilverSurfer
wrote in from
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
psYchOLoyd - Thank you very much for your response. You are always very helpful.
I don't want to paint you into a corner or anything but I am close to purchasing two complete set ups. I want one to learn pumping on and one to learn sliding on.
If you could provide specific recommendations for deck, trucks and wheels it would be very helpful. I have a few ideas but I cant make up my mind.
I know you make your own boards and that they are awesome. I'm afraid that my craftsmanship is not up to par. For right now I am going to have to go with store (internet) bought.
If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. I really want to learn to pump my board better. I did read the article by Dan Gessmer. It help some but was kind of technical. psYchOLoyd's tips are great and I am working on it. I think I might need a board with a little more flex and maybe some camber, right? But what exactly?
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pumping unleaded
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On 4/26/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
For the ultimate pumping experience: This would be different for everybody. Personal preference not withstanding - height weight and physical makeup are major determing factors, yada, yada, yada...
To learn on: A deck with about .5" to 1" of flex when fully weighted so a maybe a medium stiffness for the riders weight would be my recommendation. Turny trucks that won't allow the wheels to bite, some fast bearings and firm grippy wheels (mushy wheels may be somewhat of a drag depending on conditions).
A deck with a shorter wheelbase would help you with part of the experience: that of "twisting" one truck against the other. Almost like trying to make one towards the left while forcing the other one in the opposite direction. You do this back 'n forth at slower speeds till you gain some momentum.
This is what I'm using now...
My deck is so aptly named the Wicked because that's what people would always seem to say whenever they got their hands on it. Now I see that someone's came along and is now using that as their company name. Hope they do well with it (it's a tough one to live up to).
A good way to learn how to pump on flat ground has a two step approach. First you want to learn how to go in circles one way, facing inward for example (looking towards the center of the circle). Then later on, the second step is to learn this facing the other way, like facing outwards (or facing away from the center of the circle).
You'll want to push a little to start riding in a circular path covering an area about the size of half a tennis court. As you are circling try driving your board to do a smaller arc but then "kick out" at the same time by putting more weight onto the turning board essencially pushing the board outward (away from the center of your circle). This "kicking out" works together w/the tighter arc by cancelling each other out and what you derive is forward momentum and remember that you're four wheels are maintaining contact with the ground this whole time.
Once you can keep your momentum going in circles facing both inward or outward try doing figure eights and the switch between directions will give you a good idea of how to pump in a straight line.
This is the very technique I used to learn on my own and the same way I've taught everyone else along the way... right Dan?
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Ulitimate Pumper
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On 4/24/2004 silversurfer
wrote in from
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
What would be the best set up for an ultimate pumping board?
What deck, trucks, wheels and bearings would be best to learn pumping on?
What are you using now?
Can you give me any tips to help me learn pumping. I can sort of do it now, but I'm not quite sure if I'm doing it right. I'd like to be able to generate more momentum and speed, especially on flat ground.
Axiously awaing your responces.
Thank You -- SS
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Jeff Kason
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On 4/15/2004 Dave G
wrote in from
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Why does that name sound familiar?
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loaded vangaurd
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On 4/15/2004 phil from LBC
wrote in from
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how does the loaded vanguard pump, i am 135 lbs and there is a black label vangaurd designed for 130 -160 lbs, and a silver label designed for 100-125, i was wondering if the vangaurd has a better overall ride if its kinda stiff or super flexy?
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Blender...
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On 4/3/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
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...great clip!
Cool story, Jeff Kasson. The very same thing happened here in Chicago.
He's right Hung.
Dino: Telling it like it is (ya gatta think like a pendulum).
Honor the dead and incarcerated!!!
Hi Dan.
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Neil Blender
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On 3/26/2004
Dtrain
wrote in from
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Check out this clip transworld has up, click on this http://www.skateboarding.com/skate/videos/0,12616,,00.html , then on the Neil Blender clip "one of the greatest contest runs of all time." Brings tears to my eyes.
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Neil
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On 1/16/2004
Jeff Kasson
wrote in from
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Neil rocks... so many years of inovative skating.
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spelling
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On 1/14/2004 Neil Blender
wrote in from
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amount
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pumpkin
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On 1/14/2004 Neil Blender
wrote in from
(66.235.nnn.nnn)
Hey Dino,
I got a Pumpkin 38" Crusier, It has mass camber, Up off the ground maby a good inch with no trucks and its super stiff for the lenth. Once you get the momentum going you can move out on the flats for .5 mile or more with a decent omont of speed. I think stiffness helps to tranfer the side to side motion into a forward momentum.
Yo gator i think most people that post here skate religously and just love to talk about it when there not doin it. right guys?. got one of your decks..great vintage skate ;^)
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Pumping since the mid 70's
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On 12/31/2003
Jeff Kasson
wrote in from
(24.93.nnn.nnn)
Pumping is a joy. It is great to get in a groove and not put your feet on the ground. I remember being surprised in the 70's that others were doing it. I thought that I had "invented" it, because I learned it in Ohio seclusion - as a natural progression from "tic-tac"ing. Try pumping while doing a tail wheelie and see how far you can go. It's fun. My son can pump on a Razor scooter.
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SKATE AND DESTROY
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On 12/27/2003 jeff phillips
wrote in from
(67.80.nnn.nnn)
you tell them gator!!!!!!!!!!!!
hope all is well in jail. :)
life in heaven is good. all cement parks and backyard pools.
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pumping each other
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On 12/27/2003 gator
wrote in from
(67.80.nnn.nnn)
stop pumping each other with your wood or fiberglass, if you like G&S (post neil blender, if you even know who he is), and start skating. its the only way to learn. go hurt yourselves and learn, its the only way, as i said.
to those on this message board under 10 i apologize, but you should be doing your homework and studying. more than likely you won't be a pro so you should edumacate yourselves!!!!! and enjoy your skateboard in your spare time.
SKATE AND DESTROY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Bowl Pumping
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On 12/11/2003 Jer
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
Thanks for your info, PSR. I am trying it, but the moral of the story is I gotta practice. I find the best way to practice this is by going back and forth on a vert ramp, just by pumping. I am able to do it, but I just am in awe of the people who look like they are going super slow and are able to hop right on the coping - like I'd know what to do if I ever got up there!
Thanks for the help and I'll let you know how it goes. At this point, I am a 3 out of 10 on the pumping scale I think..
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Bowl pumpin'
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On 12/9/2003 PSR
wrote in from
(24.52.nnn.nnn)
Jer,loose the 'jump' bit in your quest for good pumping.Keep it fluid,not too quick(well,tight spots require quick moves,so..)or jerky.Be low and soft before the tranny curve,and pump thru(get taller)IN the tranny curve,being ready to retract as you get into the Vert.If your line tends toward working the horizontal curve(vs. halfpipe,which is all done on the vertical curve),keep some extension left to thrust against that curve.Speed is key to getting the more horizontal lines and working them well,as at that point,you're in the more vertical realm,but travelling across the lip,not just up to it and back..If you look at a well shaped bowl,you'll have two main curved lines to draw from,the 1/2 pipe line(up+back),and the bowl's curvature(around the top),but it's usually some line Between those Two that you actually ride.The trick is to extend in the tighter portion of the curvatures,and retract if you start going at a lesser curve.One other thing is wheel choice.Ride a fast wheel,one that Can Slide,but has some Grip for steering corrections.I personally like using 95A-98A (bigger than 63mm) as those durometers have the best blend of speed without being too slidey or chalky or stiff. That may differ for you depending on surface smoothness or tempature at your bowl.Hotter/smoother you can usually go hard[er],colder/rougher/slicker usually means a bit softer wheel(even down to 92A)to keep it smooth and turny. To find a 'good' line,bring a grease pencil,and 'tag' spots that flow well,and work a line out from those reference points.After awhile,you'll have a chart of 'sweet' lines to use.Erase those marks if other's ride there,but know where they were.That'll keep your line yours,and not mislead someone who rides differently than you. Keep at it,stay loose,ride fast..
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rocker
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On 12/9/2003
hc
wrote in from
(68.123.nnn.nnn)
dino, i think you are off base on this one.
yes, a rocker deck or drop thru deck will get you closer to the roll center, looses leverage, and be more sensitive, etc.
but it's a leap to say that offers pumping advantage.
Luca, the guy who won tight slalom at MB, was on a higher than average setup.
hc
geocities.com/sk8sanjose
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Bowl/Pool Pumping
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On 12/5/2003
Jer
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
Well, practice and practice... Here's what I have learned, and if anyone can give me some ideas of what I am doing wrong, let me know.
As I drop in(Still not good enough to get a good pump on the drop in), I bend down and push down on downward parts, then as I come to the transition, I kind of jump and squat. All at the same time, I carve and at the top of my carve as I come back down, I stand up(Hence, pushing on the board again). When I come to another transition, I bend down and jump a bit, but that's when I lose my speed and don't know why.
I am going out as much as possible to practice... Is this just something that comes? Thanx
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Negative camber helps
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On 12/4/2003 Dino
wrote in from
(64.75.nnn.nnn)
I have a deck I made with negative camber and it's a great pumping board! Why? Because your center of effort (CE) is nearly even with the pivot point of the truck hanger.
The higer the CE is from that pivot point, the longer the moment arm of force. In other words, you have to work harder to pump because the further out you get on a lever, the further the lever has to travel to do the same work.
Try pumping a deck with really high riser pads and you'll see right away what I mean.
Yes, I know that a longer lever offers a greater machanical advantage, but looking at it over time, a shorter lever moves relativly faster which equates to a quicker pump with better output to the wheels.
What propels you forward is the essentialy the same principal as a sail tacking upwind. The wheels act like a keel and offer resistance to the side induced force of the pump action from the foot. That energy has to go somewhere and through a complex mix of slip angles, wheel rotation and hanger angle it moves the vehicle forward.
I've spent hours thinking about the dynamics of pumping. These are just my observations/hypotheses, and I offer them up for all to play with in your own designs.
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Big Pumper
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On 12/2/2003 drex
wrote in from
(198.81.nnn.nnn)
Hey Dave & G7enn,
thanks for the replies. I am around 160lbs. But I'm kind of looking for a big, all around cruiser/liquor store runner/bankrider (revere) deck to ride around on. My current quiver consists of a couple cruiser decks that i can pump around town:
A fairly flexy Surf One 38" (Woody) deck
A really flexy 47" Original Skateboards deck (with the Original trucks)
And a big fat 12" Skaterbuilt that I've been using on the banks & skateparks.
So I'm thinkin', all I need now is a BIG deck to fill out my quiver..
Or should I skip the Ed & go with something else? The Loaded is a tempting....
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Pumpin' Drex
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On 12/1/2003
Dave H.
wrote in from
(68.74.nnn.nnn)
Drex,
Unless you are one heavy dude, why not get a more springy deck? Loaded, Fiberflex and (of course) Pumpkin are worth looking into for a pumping machine. If you are in the 150-175 pound range, a Loaded Superflex will pump all day for you.
Dave H.
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How to Pump