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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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LDP skumping setup
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On 1/30/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Hey Sean, nice setup specs! For long distance pump I typically run in the 25"--28" range, with 3-4" of nose past the front truck. Adjusting wheelbase is also a good way to adjust your flex to what works best for you - I like slight flex but would err on the side of stiff rather than soggy noodle. If you're talking about 3--5 mile pumps, some concave is fine. But for long, non-stop pumps, I'd go with a really mellow concave or flat, with slight snappy camber. The wheels you're talking about are perfect for skumping/LDP, but you'll need xtra riser. If you're trying to find a balance with skogging or expect to be pushing much or at all, then you'll probably want to size down your wheels a notch or come up with some cut-outs solution to get the deck a little lowered. As for wheel hardness, I like rear 72a's, but my trails are pretty rocky. If your terrain is smoother you'll get better roll speed on 78a's or higher, like Al was mentioning before. Keep us posted, Comets rock!!
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LDP Setup... Opinions?
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On 1/30/2006
Sean C.
wrote in from
United States
(167.206.nnn.nnn)
Hey guys... I have a setup in mind for long distance pumping and I wanted to hear your opinions on it...
I'm thinking:
42" Scramjet (not sure on the flex/camber/concave of the board, any help?)
RTR Trucks
72a avilas rear, 76a up front...
or
76a avilas rear, 77a front
Any comments? Suggestions?
Thanks.
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more rain, more CYBER!
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On 1/29/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Great little pump sesh this morning with some always-welcome newbie blood, bumped the indoor Cyber 174' strips up a couple feet for an 'official' 176-foot Trap. Ran Cyber with unlimited push and measurable difference! Cyber started this way years ago with unlimited pushes up to the start line. Drop decks for pushing, and a flat PPS for pumpin' the Trap. Speeeedy good times!
Cyber (regulation 15-foot push)
BJ 9.445
JP 9.512
CM 9.666
JS 9.800
TIM 12.752
Cyber (unlimited push)
BJ 7.927
CM 8.289
JS 8.460
JP 8.515
TIM 13.538
The Trap (secs / mph pushing)
JS 7.185 / 16.701
JP 7.342 / 16.344
JP 7.770 / 15.444 (pumping)
BJ 7.913 / 15.165
CM 8.554 / 14.028
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phat bushings
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On 1/28/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Mixing and matching fat bushings from a Radikal Race Pack and Khiros has been a great test. For flatland on the CarverCX, I like Red Rads 80a bottom, clear 75a on top, or for slalom Red Rads bottom and Khiro white cone on top. Hardest I ever used was green 90a Rads on a rear truck. Downhill on Randals I like a Blue/Red Rad combo. I like all that extra "meat" -- they have fast return, and seem to last a lot longer. Plus I like that with a Rad Race Pack you can order just the duros you want. I also love my Stims, but I use them a little less since they're kinda rare and $pendier...
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bushings
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On 1/28/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Al, in response to your question about larger bushings,I have used green Stims as my bottom bushing on ALL of my longboards. (I would have tried them on my slalom decks too expect for the fact that the kingpins are generally too short to accomodate the fatter bushing. And I don't use certain trucks on my longboard, such as Indy's, just because the kingpin can not be swapped for a longer one that will accomodate the Stims. )
I really like the quick return to centre of the Stims and how deep the carves are with a fat bushing. As well and most importantly to me, I found that I could run my trucks washer-rattling loose and still have a stable ride when I used the Stims. So there is no doubt in my mind that the fatter bushing, well at least as far as the Stims go, offer a superior set up for deep, high speed carving as well as mellow flat land cruising.
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oversize bushings
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On 1/28/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
Just finished test riding some new homemade oversize bushings...one from a blue Krytonic, which I think is about a 74a and one from a Sec9 wheel 78a. They are both the same dimensions about1 1/16" by 1" tall. I used a 2 1/2" kingpin to accommidate the new height, and inset the bushings both into the hangers and the baseplates about 1/8". For the top bushing I used a lower Indy/conical shaped. I'm still assessing whether they're better for my pumping or not...but first impressions are that they have promise! I actually liked the feel of the soft Krypto, and had to torque it down real good to keep it from biting the wheel. However, after that, I really liked the return to center that it provided, as well as it seeming to give more stability when I test carved circles at a steep angle. The extra urethane could really be felt using this deep carve test.
For pumping there seemed to be also a mild benefit due to the return to center being better, and over-all seemed to give a little smoother ride. Many more tests to come in the next few weeks. I'm curious if others have noticed any increase in performance using a larger bushing?
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LDP/skumpin thane
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On 1/27/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
The bouncier new 'thane will make rougher trails more tolerable on long stretches. I've only cranked Retro 70mm's through a few cones so far and they're butta-smooth, but no long distance pumps yet. Over the Burke Gilman trail's 27 miles, the asphalt is about 10% ultra-smooth, 60% average, and 30% rocky & chewed up. That roughest terrain can jar your feet from their sockets on harder duros after pumping a few miles, so I've liked how Avilas 81a front/72a back lets you surf through it all. On Green Lake 2.8-mile loop, the entire surface is smooth, so 84a/81a is great there. Just like slalom its always nice to have extra duros and sizes to switch up, based on the terrain. Good point made to keep growing your quiver of wheels!!
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zig zags etc..
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On 1/27/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
Every time I pump, I consider exactly what Chris is talking about, and many times have tried to figure ways to get both good carving and pumping, without losing the speed! For this reason I generally dislike pumping soft wheels! (ie. wheels under 78a) Though they are very sweet on the pavement they are too slow and inefficient. The best I have found so far are the white Avalons...but really hope these zig zags out do them!
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yo wheels
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On 1/26/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Thanks for that explanation Chris. Now I understand what you mean by 'rebound'.
I appreciate your suggestions and insights.
And, given what you've said, I think I will take your advice and try a set of your new wheels for long distance pumping.
again, thanx
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Mo Wheels
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On 1/26/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Don't sell off your current wheels. Trust me on this - you can never have too many good wheels. Increase the overall number of boards in your quiver so that you can offer "loaner" boards to newbies, or to do A/B testing. Over the next few years you'll be trying out new trucks, new bushings, new riser/wedge combos, new decks, mounting hardware, grip-systems, etc. During these changing times it's nice to keep your options open.
Here's the deal on our latest and greatest urethane formulas. Having a high level of resilience ("rebound" or "elasticity") has a profound effect on the roll-speed and feel of urethane wheels. A single urethane formula will have it's peak rebound at a certain durometer (hardness). As the durometer of the wheel moves away from this formula's peak, a certain percentage of rebound goes away. Simply speaking, wheels are either soft, firm, or hard in the seventies, eighties, or nineties respectively. Many of the downhill/cruiser wheels have formulas that peak in rebound in the seventies, which is ideal for straight line rolling and/or wider high speed turns. Most of these wheels are too soft (mushy) for hard carving, pumping, and the snappier turns in slalom.
The "Reflex" formula has its peak rebound in the eighties, where carvers, pumpers and slalom racers benefit from a firmer wheel. The wheels are harder and yet feel very lively. It tends to make wheels feel softer than wheels of the same durometer with less rebound. We've found that you get the roll-speed of (ususally softer) high rebound wheels with the responsiveness and control of firmer wheels. I think that they are perfectly suited to pumping and that you'll like them. Try some and let us know what you think.
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six wheels and rebounding wheels
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On 1/26/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Peter, that's totally wild looking! I can actually imagine the added traction the six wheeler would have. So next time I'm heading for the (big) hills, I may have to take an extra truck and set of wheels. In the meantime, I too will stick with a four wheeler for pumping the flats. But hey, who knows what's around the corner for us LDP'ers?
On the topic of wheels.
So now that I just stocked up on my wheels for slalom and LDP - Avalons, Hot Spots and Avilas - out come rave reviews of the Zig Zags. So I can't really imagine that their grip is that much different from a regular slalom wheel but what's all the talk of 'rebound'. Never really heard it come up that much before. What's the deal with it and why is it a good thing and don't other wheels have it too?
So should I rush to the 'bay and sell off my other wheels to get some new 'Put wheels or will the current stock of cone running wheels serve me faithfully for a while yet? What'cha think?
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sticky experiments
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On 1/24/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Erin - the 6-wheelers' felt so sticky carving down a couple little hills today, where I'd expect slippage there was *none* - but BWAAAHAHAHAHA! - as suspected that big LDP 6-er was a TANK on flats which is also from the 4 humongous Avilas on the back! Smaller wheels and lighter dubba-trucks, might make more sense for flats, but I'm stickin' to (ONE set) of offsets until then.
On the other hand, this little Roe-Hollien with HotSpots was amazing on my test hill!
Adam, any pics of your Seismic stik? Would like to see how you config'd it. Also, you will DIG the Retros urethane, Michael brought 'em last weekend and let us take a test drive...ohhhh man they're suction-cups AND super-ball responsive at the same time!
eddie, sounds like your deck is dialed already! I've done my share of mucked-up drill holes ;-) My first Roe looks like the Swiss-cheese model...
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Hot Spots are the sh@!
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On 1/24/2006
Chris
wrote in from
United States
(158.48.nnn.nnn)
I just wanted to post that I have been trying to learn to pump for a while on my 32 inch Gravity Buttons Board. I was rolling blue kryptonic classics for a while. Then I got some 77a Hot Spots and they turned my board into a mad pumper. Now I can pump up small hills. These wheels are awesome!!!!
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Peters/ flexy
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On 1/24/2006 eddie
wrote in from
United States
(70.112.nnn.nnn)
thanks. im pretty nervious about drilling into it. ive been known mess stuff like that up. i didnt like standing inside the front and back truck, but i got used to it. i just bend the hell out of that thing. i put some randall 180s and some 70mm 74a krypto's on it. im really diggin it. i can carve waaay more deep than on my other stuff. when in lean back real hard and turn it feels like a suction cup.
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MD on Retros
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On 1/24/2006
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(198.144.nnn.nnn)
Mmmm.. wave of energy..
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Retros
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On 1/24/2006
Michael Dong
wrote in from
United States
(204.11.nnn.nnn)
Adam, You will freak when you ride the new Retros. The 86 duro feels like an 80. The 80 feels like you are floating on a wave of energy. These wheels are awesome for pumping. Fantastic roll speed.
Michael
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standard/offset rear truck
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On 1/24/2006
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(198.144.nnn.nnn)
I totally agree on the stiffly sprung rear setup. I run original gold springs on my German Seismics at rear, original ultra-light silvers up front. Going to try the new ABEC11 Retro wheels this week in the lime green formula to see just how lively Chaput's new urethane really is.
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standard/offset rear truck
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On 1/24/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
The stiff rear trucks, even the Seismics, return power when set up right with stiff springs tightened all the way. Though the Seismic/CX combo is really more of a short-pump experiment for now.
IMHO the best rear truck for long distance flatland pumping will be a light, single off-set like a Tracker or Split-Fire. But the stock Indys, Trackers, and Carvers work just fine. I think that 6-wheeler makes the most sense going downhill with speed, since average speed on flats hovers between only 10--15 mph most of the time. Powering off the rear wheels is important, but sliding out is hardly a concern (though its surprising when it does happen!) One of the best optimizations last year was having Roe and LBLarry build *lightweight* decks, and for trucks I go along the same lines...minimize weight.
The other thing I really like about the Carver CX is...no more of this...
...so far anyway!
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reat truck talk
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On 1/24/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Munchh, the Carver CX's reat truck IS essentially a 'normal' truck. Nothing that different with their rear truck from that of an Indy, say.
As yes, generally the rear truck is tighter than the front and sometime sports harder bushings as well. It is meant to follow the front and provide traction if needed - depending on the application... i.e. flatland pumping vs slalom pumping.
James, that six wheeler is looking hot!!!! Let us know how it skates...flatland in particular, as there are already a lot of thumbs up for the six wheeler in slalom. It seems the boys are enjoying the increased traction the double rear trucks give. Now I am really curious whether the six wheels will have any positive impact on LDP.
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Cx's
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On 1/24/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
So from what i'm reading and seeing (6 wheeler funny man), the carver cx is the closest thing to a perfect skumping truck this far in?
What i'm still not clear on is, the rear? The last thing i expected was the seismic! Do you not set up the rear to be stiff, or do you still need movement from it?
Again, i have assumed the likeness to a slalom setup!
Am i better off using my racetracks on my 36" than just some 150's wedged and can you use the carver cx with a normal truck at the rear?
Questions, questions...........i'm gonna get this eventually!!!!
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gettin HIGH on LDP
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On 1/24/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Check it, a 6-wheeler skumping deck!
Psych!! just havin' fun ;-) For pumping flatland its probably like dragging a caboose! But I'm mounting up a slalom 6-er just to test the downhill traction.
That 38" Seismic+CX Numbchuck combo is fun for rippin' up parking lots. You need 3+ wedges to off-set the kicktail. Red springs in rear would be snappier. Still unsure about long distance rides though, needs bigger wheels and cut-outs, and I still prefer slight camber. Guess Longboard Larry and Roe-Sect have me spoiled.
As for the HEIGHT and risers, that's right on Erin! LDP setups seem high when you're just standing, lookin at the board. But when you jump on the deck once, take a couple pushes, and you're off and pumpin!! -- then height isn't a big deal.
It's also cool you've found less need for riser, the wedge angle has a lot to do with that. CXs "surf" side to side, swivelling more parallel with deck & ground, rather than angling inward sharply like rev-kingpin Randals. Also when your bushings are in good shape, they won't carve as deeply into the deck. This one's tricky, because on just one really long ride, your front bushing can get chewed up. One marathon tip: be sure to start with fresh bushings, tightened up snug but not so tight they blow out!
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LDP info
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On 1/24/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
polorat12, I found that by reading back through the posts in this section of the forum I learned a lot about the set ups that people were using successfully for pumping. It takes a bit of time but is really interesting. You might want to give that a try.
After that you can start experimenting with what seems to work for you. Everyone's designated pumping board will be a little different from anyone elses as they develop a set up that suits their riding style based on their weight and build. Your idea of Carver CX's and seismics with 70mm wheels may work very well. I don't think you'll have to go over the top with risers on that set up but you'll be able to tell easily yourself once you have the board set up and stand on it leaning it over to a backside position - either there will be a little clearance for the front wheel or there won't!
Read, read, read....then try some possibilities based on what you gleaned here ....and then report back....and then we can go from there!
cheers
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boards
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On 1/23/2006 polorat12
wrote in from
United States
(71.102.nnn.nnn)
i want to get a pumping deck, but i build decks cause they cost too much. but i'm not real sure about what kind of deck. i've heard about some having a kicktail. do you have to have a kick tail? how long should a board be? i like bigger boards like 40 or more inches, but what is recommended.i plan to use a carver cx/seismic setup with some 70mm wheels. do i need big risers or not? i have no clue about boards or concave or anything. you guys are like my teachers and anything would help a lot.
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risers, Avilas and CX's
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On 1/23/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Amazingly SS, I am able to run my CX's and Avilas with just a stock 5 degree riser on the rear (that's the hard plastic riser pad that you can buy at most skate shops) and on the front I use the same stock riser pad with another 2 or 3 degree Khiro wedge. This is all I needed when I ran my Hot Spots and it was surprising to me that when I threw on the Avilas I didn't even have to add more riser. I think it has to do with the way the Carvers turn as opposed the the angle of turn on a more conventional truck.
Perhaps James could comment on this differenec in turn geometry.
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Risers...
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On 1/23/2006 SS
wrote in from
United States
(71.192.nnn.nnn)
Erin how much riser are you using with your CX's and Avilla's?
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How to Pump