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| Q&A: McKendry on Speed (1810 Posts)
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Spec Class?
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On 7/4/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
My board was 60" long x 13" wide x 5" tall, with an 8" tall piece of foam on the front. It weighed 22.5 pounds fully loaded and used wheels that were 3.27" in diameter (83mm). The basis for the board was an 11" standing platform (1" wider than my normal), a 36" wheelbase (2" longer than my normal), and an extra set of wheels up front (this adds 4"). I weighed my 42" Big Red X, 3 downhill trucks, 6 83mm Flywheels, bearings, mounting hardware, grip, and a riser pad and it comes out to 12.5 pounds. This would pass IGSA's & GSI's weight limit (11 lbs + 1 kilo), but I'd have to shave a half pound for EDI's rules. IGSA says that there must be a minimum of 4 wheels, GSI says exactly 4, EDI doesn't have a rule.
I have proposed the following specs:
Length: 48"
Width: 12"
Height: 6"
Weight: 15 pounds
Wheels: 4" OD
The board should be lean-steer activated. No brakes. No sharp edges or dangerous features. The bottom of at least one foot should be planted on the board while riding with the other foot being in contactat with the board, except for when pushing or attempting to regain control.
I think that you get a tech box that is 48" x 12" x 6", put it on a scale and zero the scale. If a board can fit completely inside it and weighs 15 pounds (or less), 4 of the tech specs have just passed. I'd keep it that simple. I would NOT attempt to define or to ban fairings or airflow devices. Bumpers, fenders, rails, risers, toe-blocks, trucks, hubcaps, wheel cowlings, numberplates, board contours, bends, concave, camber, rocker, all change the way that air passes around a rider and his equipment. It would be entirely STUPID to make a highly subjective rule that required completely ARBITRARY judgement to determine whether or not a feature or component on a skateboard constituted an "illegal" airflow device. If you have an appropriate height limit (no one has imposed this YET), you can simply allow everyone to construct skateboards that will pass tech without any problems. There is only so much that you can do with a 6" height limit. You may be able to clean air over the toes of your front foot, and/or attempt to prevent air from hitting your spinning wheels, and everyone would have the same opportunity to do this. Currently, no one is complaining about drop-decks putting a rider's feet behind and below the front part of the board. No one cares if you have a teardrop shaped deck. Few people have found it compelling enough of an advantage (if any) to have their boards run cleaner. Most of the effort has been with helmets, leathers, gloves and shoes.
Another type of rule that always backfires is when someone tries to control the COST of what is competitive. Gravity sports have seen bans on floating-axle trucks, drop-through decks, exotic bearings, fast wheels, fast helmets, kevlar racing suits, speedsuits, safer chassis designs, etc. Some "well intended" organization makes an attempt to keep the "less resourceful" skaters happy by banning "expensive, unfair" equipment. Often times, the items being banned aren't even faster. For example, some riders like 8" wide hangers and strong straight axles. For years, the only solution was a Randal luge truck. It's expensive and has 4 bearings in the hanger to "float" the axle, which is strong and centerless ground for straightness. Some people ASSUME (incorrectly), that these trucks are faster and "shouldn't be allowed" and then argue that not everyone can afford these. The result? They BAN floating axle trucks. So what do guys do? The spend about 10 times as much money to get custom 8" wide hangers heat treated chromoly or titanium axles. Congratulations - the price of "being competitive" just went up.
Then they ban all kevlar race suits. Now instead of paying under $1,000 for a set of leathers, guys can go out and spend $4,000 on the most high tech "seamless" aerodynamic set of "real cow" leathers. Again the price of racing just went up.
Want a lightweight Snell rated helmet that provides good visibility in your tuck and is super aero? Fine. Someone can and will go out and pay the $940 to test his limited production run of helmets, get the certification and stoke out a handful of his teammates and/or himself.
We are not a place where we can (or should) try and make speedboarding into a strict spec class. Who wants to go to a race where you have to buy, and then ride, somebody elses idea of what a good downhill board is? Guys want to ride what they want to ride. I think that simple rules will have racers thinking "outside the box", about what can fit "inside the box", that will get them down the hill safer and faster than ever before. You can choose to run a simple setup or go as high tech as the box will allow - it's your choice. You can put together the most expensive board on the planet, but if you can't ride it down the hill, it's absoltely WORTHLESS.
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passing the gnar gnar
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On 7/3/2005 mike p
wrote in from
United States
(69.107.nnn.nnn)
cool place for passing! thanks
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Where Did Dennis Pass?
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On 7/3/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Go straight down from the "D" in "Downhill until you find a dark sport on the "S". I got squirrely there, in the lefty, and Dennis made a move before the right hander. He may have caught some bad air because he kind of stalled out there, and I was able to dive to the inside of the right and retake the lead in the straights.
I had a great run in the quarters, an okay run in the semis, and my run in the finals was my worst. I almost paid the price for it.
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more maryhill q's
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On 7/3/2005 mike p... again
wrote in from
United States
(69.107.nnn.nnn)
another question for chris... what turn did denis make that (albeit shortlived) pass on? my guess would be the little wiggle that preceeds the left/right s before the long straight section... if that made any sense
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Racing and Regs.
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On 7/3/2005 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
Chris, your post just below, from 7/2, IS SPOT ON!!! Thank You for saying, without pointing a finger in any one (or 6) direction the Reality of how Racing ends up being run. It dosen't have to be like this, and it shouldn't be like it is. Sponsors of Racing need to hold events that are TRUE to the Sport[s] they represent, not 'true' to the folk they know personally.
My old 6-wheeled 'woodie' sled, the 'Crutch', it still is in use, and I would have loved to have run it 'legally' at the 1st X-Games in Providence, but somehow, it was deemed 'illegal' during practice (not Metal). I haven't raced luges since, other than doing 70+ down Rt-9 with Old-School Dan. Meanwhile, I watched racers take the very same ideas I had built, and run them, a good 4-6 years later, once the 'Rules' allowed for those innovations.
It's a damn shame when innovation gets labeled as cheating, and rule-changes to benny the bros is considered the norm. But then again, NASCAR dosen't want anything WEIRD happening on their glass/rollbar flying billboards. What would happen if real Drivers like Loeb,Schummacher,Hakkinen,Millen,or Soldberg showed up with intentions of doing NASCAR? You'd see a sudden regression to U.S. mid-sized off-the-lot-with-power-steering cars with no power and ugly tire/suspension restrictions. Oops,I just described IROC... Yeah, like I was sayin'
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equipment regulations
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On 7/3/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
i've heard a few reasons besides the ol standby of safety. I bikes and motorcycle racing there is the fair to the financially challenged rule, this keeps big companies from building exotic expensive equipment(with no marketablity)just to win races and get promotion/headlines. An extra truck and two extra wheels,hardly a problem, all of chaputs board doesn't look all that expensive to make unless you ast chaput to make you you one,ex.bigredX,though it could be argued that he does open the door to to extreme deviations,personally i don't see a problem. But just as an example,,10lbs is not heavy enough? 15 lbs,would be better? what do you do if next month a 15.1 board shows up ,give it a pass? they decorate it with their ribbon so then it's 15.2 lb..... Chris , if you had a foam and carbon deck made and had them run some magnesium trucks with ti axles,replaced all the balls in your biltins with ceramic balls you would probabely make the weight, though you'd be guilty of the deep pocket advantage. Would the board still be faster?,,it would be interesting, expensive and interesting; and probabely banned anyway.
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Skateboard? specs
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On 7/3/2005 Mike P
wrote in from
United States
(69.107.nnn.nnn)
Chris what were the exact specs on ur board? Length, weight, and width in particular?
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Down Here
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On 7/3/2005 Mike P
wrote in from
United States
(69.107.nnn.nnn)
I don't remember anyone accusing Chris of cheating. It's more that people felt that his board was not really in the spirit of the sport. I don't mind the extra hanger, but the farring on it just does not seem fair. There are two things that make riders fast: how efficiently they take turns, and how aerodynamic they are. The farring eliminates one of those elements. You wanna talk about making it like NASCAR... imagine if everyone had a board that leveled the aerodynamic playing field. That is, in fact, unsafe becasue you would have beginners going that much faster (side by side with the experienced) into burly turns, eating s#@!, and taking others down.
Anyway, I got side-tracked... The point is, Chris's board was legal. He won fair and sqaure. However, many people who know skateboarding well seriously question whether rules for a race should allow a board such as this in a race. My personal oppinion is that rules should ban such boards. Judging from the specs Chris himself recomended, he appears to agree. So lets move forward into fair races.
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reason for last topic
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On 7/3/2005 down here
wrote in from
United States
(209.215.nnn.nnn)
I strayed...The next scenerio is of coarse the next year there are ALL KINDS of rules that will turn skateboard racing into nascar. It's a double edged sword. Yes, when everybody is driving essentially the same car, it comes down to driver skill and the luck of not being caught up in a crash. There's nothing wrong with this sort of racing except that it already exists. It's called IROC. I miss the OLD nascar, and I'm not sure I'd like to see speedboarding go in that direction. STAY INVENTIVE!!!
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Be careful what you wish for
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On 7/3/2005 down here
wrote in from
United States
(209.215.nnn.nnn)
Alright, I'm a nobody from the southeast who's only been over 40 a scant few times. (we don't have mountains here) Still I love haulin' azz on a skateboard like the rest of you. I've read ALL the brewhaha on all the threads about maryhill and decided to spew a little. As a casual observer it seems obvious to me that the only person at fault here is the promoter. If you throw races with what are essentially no rules you have to expect innovative americans to show up with all kinds wild contraptions. (frankly, I'm dissappointed chaput was the only one) Oh, they're always laughed at with a lot of " oh my God look at that thing!!!" and most of the time they fail and everyone has a good laugh. But every now and then, one of those contraptions WORKS. Then, everybody runs to the rule book and finds what? NOTHING. ZERO. NADA. At that point most normal people say "well.....damn...he smoked us. hmmm....what can I come up with to beat it?" Then you're usually left with only one or two crybabies to lazy to even read the rules in the first place who scream "he CHEATED" Don't sweat it Chris, and keep up that same innovative spirit that created the abec 11 wheel. We ALL benefit your hard work. Know that you are appreciated from places you rarely even think about.
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Not that special
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On 7/2/2005 Kenny?
wrote in from
United States
(66.235.nnn.nnn)
Sorry to spoil my thunder Chaput, but I didn't skate Mary Hill. I mean I skated on Mary Hill (haha) but I didn't go down it. I'm not that special, all I did was take pictures and film.
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Bans & Fans
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On 7/2/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Of course I know why I was banned. The whole situation can be summed up in two letters. It was BS. Black Sheep maybe?
Are those your pics from the CLB site Kenny? Good job. It's hard to take the time to skate AND film a race. It gives everyone an opportunity to see what words alone can't explain. And Dennis is a terrific sport and a fast, fast, skater. Even though he qualified 3rd, I think that he still slipped under a lot of people's radar because he's not as well known as some of the others from the northwest. We shared the podium at Danger Bay so I know that he's for real.
And Andrew, I can't take all the credit for bringing out the worst in us. Competition brings out the best in us, and it also carries with it some baggage. When I first started racing, I was very excited to be in a "pure" competition, one without judges like there is in street, vert and freestyle. I thought it was so simple - the first one to the line wins, may the best man win. Well, naive as I was, I started entering as many races as I could to gain the experience and the knowledge to become competitive. I say naive, because I made some very wrong assumptions. I assumed that just because I wouldn't cheat to win, others wouldn't either. I would never try to ban someone's equipment unless it was obviously unsafe to others. I would never change the rules to diminish other's strengths. I would never falsify times, change bracketing, ignore violations or invent them. But others have. And it came as a shock to me, because I thought that people were basically honest, and others would easily see what was happening and act accordingly. I've got some bad news. I was wrong. THERE ARE POLITICS IN RACING. Everyone has an agenda (which is understandable), but there have been people in a position of power who are ethically and morally corrupt.
There are so many examples in so many different situations that it wouldn't make sense to dredge them all up now, but it's been going on for years, and it hasn't stopped yet. It happens in big races, as well as in small. We all want to win. We all want the guys from our team, our city, or our country to do well, but we shouldn't be stacking the deck in people's favor or dealing a crappy hand to people we don't want to win. There aren't that many opportunities to go out and race on closed roads in a competitive format. When there is a race, but it's compromised by politics and favoritism, it's just another lost opportunity for men to figure out who the winners really are, and downhill skateboarding itself is the biggest loser.
Skaters often save up every penny that they have to travel to a race that's far from home, only to have a big sign stuck in front of them that reads, "You Can't Win, But Try So That We Look Good!"
There is a duty and a responsibilty for race organizer to set up a safe environment on which to have a battle in a time efficient manner. There have to be rules of engagement that are not subject to interpretation. I an organizer falls short of this, he will invariably become a powerful judge, making arbitrary decisions to attempt to restore order in the chaos that he promoted. It leaves racers in an awkward (but all too familiar position) to come back from a race where the effort is appreciated, but the outcome was questionable.
If I am to "blame" for good rules being established and put into place, PLEASE, PLEASE, BLAME AWAY! They won't just be there for me - they will be there for EVERYONE. The more that we have established who we are, what we do, what we use, and how we do it, the better. Then we can focus on the the race itself, and who the REAL winners are. And THAT my friend, is the spirit of competition.
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Banned
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On 7/1/2005 Justin
wrote in from
South Africa
(196.25.nnn.nnn)
Dig to know why you were banned??? You seem to be the black sheep of standup but you given so much imput back to the sport.
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Images
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On 7/1/2005
Kenny?
wrote in from
United States
(66.235.nnn.nnn)
Hey, thanks Chaput and Deano for mentioning the pictures I took. Glad to here you've seen the ones of you hitting the hay bails Deano, I have footage. So back to the topic of this whole ordeal... Mary Hill was the first longboard event I've ever witnessed and like EVERYONE else there I was dumbstruck at Chaput's little invention. But, the best input I've heard pertaining to it, comes from the man most deserving of putting an opinion to it; the man who passed "the chariot of death" up (even for just a second), Dennis. "im glad i went up against that in 2 heats, i feel as if it made me go faster down the hill tring to catch it." And it was visibly true, Chaput rose the bar, whether he was challenged or not. He made the people he raced with challenge themselves to step up and push themselves harder. You rarely get to experience things so cool as when Dennis passed up Chaput, the whole hill erupted with excitement. So whether three truck boards are banned in future races has no importance to me. Honestly, I doubt many people could stand up to the pressure, without credibility that is at par with someone the likes of Chaput the other riders will rip you apart. Especially with all of this heated discussion going around. And I thought Mary Hill under the radar, wow, was I wrong.
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chaputs place in this world
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On 6/30/2005
Andrew Mercado
wrote in from
United States
(71.107.nnn.nnn)
Chaput you were put on this earth for one reson and one reson only...to bring out the worst in us all. Its not a fun job but someones got to do it.
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stone cold skate hero.
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On 6/30/2005 ncdsa reader
wrote in from
United States
(67.122.nnn.nnn)
Sounds like there was a drama, and one of the most
basic sort.
The new thing vs the status quo. It's only the
5 millionth time this has been played out in the
7 million year history of humans. But still good!
Chris tried something different. That's not easy.
PERIOD. 99.9% of the time, the new thing is a failure, an
evolutionary dead-end. The dodo bird. Cold Fusion.
Those wheels that looked like spheres...
Takes stones to come up with the new thing and prevail with
it. Note that Chris is 40+ and injured (!!), he
makes his own wheels, his own decks. He has given a lot to
skating; more than he could ever really take back.
(unless he ends up in prison or something, knock on wood).
So thank God for men like Chaput. Don't have to
like him, but know him for what he is,
a stone cold skate hero.
But sounds like people are holding out on us:
Somebody post the EDI story while we are grilling the man over
the coals slowly... He was banned? When? Why? By Who? :-).
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Abec 11 Championships
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On 6/30/2005 GI Joe
wrote in from
United States
(65.19.nnn.nnn)
Chris we all eagerly look forward to your first event promotion, we're sure that it will be a huge success and anticipate everyone complying with all of your written rules, which hopefully include the mandatory use of Abec 11 wheels and Bilitins. You'll make a great promoter, and we are very anxious to prove it.
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abec 11 wheels
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On 6/30/2005
sean c
wrote in from
United States
(65.175.nnn.nnn)
I know this is a bit off topic, but I was wondering about Abec 11 wheels. Chris, have you noticed different pours of the wheels being noticeably faster than other pours? I've noticed that the flywheels don't chunk as much as they used to when they were the grey or amber colors. I have heard some people mumble that a sacrifice in speed made for a more durable wheel that wouldn't chunk somewhere along the line, is this true?
sean c
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My Guess
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On 6/30/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
My hope and my guess is that the specs that I've listed below would appropriately limit a board into being what is accepted as a speedboard. I have no intention on trying to promote the board that I just rode as being what a skateboard "should" be, for someone to be competitive. The single biggest question in my mind, is whether or not the definition of a speedboard "should" limit the number of wheels.
I've seen others ride 6 wheel boards in races, but no one was rushing to ban them because they didn't win. Winning changes everything. People were laughing at my board. Many thought that the fairing was creating more drag. It was a big joke - until I became the top qualifier for a while, and even then, that was explained as me getting the best tailwinds. That was of course, until Will Brunson took the top qualifying spot and more rumours of tailwinds began to swirl.
This was definitely a track-specific, rider-specific experiment, that could have just as easily failed miserably. The was absolutely no guarantee that this was going to be an effective board for me or for anyone else. And it still remains to be seen which aspects of its design are effective or not. I'd like to see if I can make an effective 6 wheeler that fits the specs, but I wouldn't want to ride it in competitions if nobody wanted to compete with it.
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luge
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On 6/30/2005
Yorck
wrote in from
Germany
(84.57.nnn.nnn)
Hi Chris !
Do you think that´s the future of speedboarding ? Will you ride that thing on other events too or was it just an experiment ?
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You got that right
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On 6/30/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
That board is what's known as a "spear". Just do what Will did and round off that pointy nose.
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Abortion doctor
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On 6/30/2005
Andrew Mercado
wrote in from
United States
(71.107.nnn.nnn)
quoted from chaput "No sharp edges or dangerous features."....So i guess my "abortion doctor" board i used at maryhill would be outlawed huh?....Damn
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What I'd like to see
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On 6/30/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
I think that it is perfectly acceptable, and perhaps even desireable to use the following basic specs for downhill skateboarding:
Length: 48"
Width: 12"
Height: 6"
Weight: 15 pounds
Wheels: 4" OD
The board should be lean-steer activated. No brakes. No sharp edges or dangerous features. The bottom of at least one foot should be planted on the board while riding with the other foot being in contactat with the board, except for when pushing or attempting to regain control.
I think that it's futile to attempt to regulate aerodynamic contours, especially when you consider that some boards, some trucks, and some wheels are inherently more aero than others, some of the safest boards would have blunt noses and thick rails. The 6" height spec would be a sufficient limitation on how much could be done aerodynamically.
There is a lot of historical precedent with many of these dimensions. The 15 pounds is less limiting than 12 pounds, and this is good for heavier riders and/or structural strength. The height limit would be new, and help to control the aerodynamic issues. Limiting the number of wheels would be purely a matter of personal preference. There's no clear "right" or "wrong" answer there.
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6 wheels
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On 6/30/2005 Justin
wrote in from
South Africa
(196.25.nnn.nnn)
Its an interesting concept very different but looks out of place amounst all the other boards. Toms and the rogers boards seem to fit into each other. Your board is different, as is theirs to any standard wood deck, is in a league of its own. If it ever grows in popularity in racing then make a category for it.
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faring front end
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On 6/30/2005 Aengus
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(193.113.nnn.nnn)
I have to say chris that the application of aerodynamic theory to the board and rider as a whole is real exciting, its also begs the question, what are the limits/restrictions? I like the idea of bigger heavier boards used for down hill, more wheels for traction, more momentum through corners. I love the idea of tanking through the field with a monster. Also at 6'6" and 224lb I'm all for the allowance of heavier set-up's, If its a board, your standing on it and its powered by gravity thats enough for me, it allows the field a chance to develop technology and thats just cool and always will be. Technological and idealogical advance is solely party to adversity.
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