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| Q&A: McKendry on Speed (1810 Posts)
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Sliding 101
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On 7/10/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
That was a nice video Dennis - thanks.
Brad, I'm starting from the very beginning, as if you just got a pair of slide gloves and a board. A common problem with riders who are new to speedboarding, is that they overtighten their trucks from the beginning. As a result, they never really learn how their board carves and corners at low speeds. I suggest that at the beginning, all riding should done on loose trucks, and at low to medium-low speeds. If you've never put a glove down, you should take things one step at a time. I'm saying start slowly, carve a turn and put the glove down. Keep carving harder while skimming or weighting the glove hand, until you stop dead in your tracks. This can be done on flat ground, in a wide open space, or on a hill. You may end up facing downhill, to the side, or uphill. It's just the firt step in getting to know your equipment, without getting hurt.
Here's another really good drill to do on a gentle hill. Face somewhat forward in a low a crouch, do a brief heelside turn and skim the inside puck while grabbing the outside rail. Don't turn that much - just enough to "skim, grab and recover". Now immediately lean over into a toeside turn, grab the other rail and skim the other glove. It's a bit awkward at first, kind of like a catcher in baseball not wanting to go flat footed or be on the balls of his feet. But it allows you do dozens of mini slides in a short amount of time and distance. Bombing a hill may only give you 3 or 4 technical turns per run. Here you get tons.
There three basic positions you're going to find yourself in:
1. Standing straight up (carving or airbraking)
2. In a tuck (head first, arms behind you)
3. In a slide (puck down, perhaps grabbing a rail)
You want to be able to quickly and smoothly transition from any one of these positions to another. Going from a tuck to standing up, or from standing up to a tuck is pretty easy. It's tuck-to-slide, stand-to-slide, slide-to tuck, and slide-to-stand transitions that can get tricky, especially if you have to throw a foot-brake somwhere in the mix.
There's also a kind of "no man's land" squat that is really unstable. It's when a corner is too scary to stay tucked, but not tight enough to warrant sliding the turn. If you get squirrelly while carving in a deep knee bend squat, you're hosed.
Anyway, what I'm saying is, have fun on your speedboard and get comfortable with loose trucks. Make sure that you have big cutouts and/or the clearance for big wheels and loose trucks. Pump the board, carve the board, and then practice carving with puck down. Carve so hard that you stop. Start forcing the board around sooner to induce a slide and slide to a stop. Knowing how a loose board with sticky wheels handles is a building block toward tighter trucks and higher speeds. But you have to learn to crawl before you learn to run. You gotta be willing to slide more and practice more, when you may think that it's more thrilling to bomb the hill. The problem is that NOTHING is more intimidating than trying to go down a fast, steep, technical road at speed if you don't have all of tips, tricks, skills, and tools.
Once you're confident that you can slide to a stop both heelside and toeside, just about any hill some a whole lot more fun. And again, LEARN TO RIDE A BOARD WITH LOOSE TRUCKS. The best all around skaters on the planet are ones who know how to RIDE a board. You can't just crank down the trucks and bomb. If you can learn to standing slides, you're GOLD. Knowing how far to push a board to slide, and then to recover, means that you have a great grasp on the the relationship between your surroundings, your equipment, and yourself.
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mary vid
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On 7/10/2005 dennis
wrote in from
United States
(216.9.nnn.nnn)
Most of the footage was using a high end camera barrowed for m a local college and brought by a couple guys jon and david... thanks again for that guys.,..good thing it was never dropped:o) could have been expensive, also some was filmed using a regular dvcam and wideangle lens.
Im lovin this putfile thing never had any way to post any vids.. heres another of a hill outside seattle. this was the first times we skated it so the music represents how i felt on the prior run when I wasn't filming.
Click here to watch 'Movie_00019939'
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Video
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On 7/10/2005
Casey
wrote in from
United States
(63.224.nnn.nnn)
Dennis, that video was awesome. What kind of camera and lens/s were you using?
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re Make it break it
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On 7/10/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(216.233.nnn.nnn)
i said sliding on my glove with weight on the board. a typo. i meant sliding on my glove with weight off the board.
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re Make it break it
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On 7/10/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(216.233.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
I'm not clear what you mean by carve to a stop. r u saying to carve the board so it is pointed uphill. with a 40" board, this would take a wide road. If I carve to the left while leaning on my glove then I just go to the left and will stop when I run into something.
Also, r u saying i should use my feet 2 push the board around?
i have been practicing, by leaning on my glove with weight on the board and carving a 90 rt turn at the bottom of a hill, but looking for a pointer on the next step of sliding on the hill without the board carving to the right and onto the curb at the side of the street. i did a temp swap of my green goonies (flashbacks) for yuppie wheels which i thought might give me a leg up until i get the hang of it.
and thanks 2 u and Cliff 4 taking the time 2 respond 2 these questions. I have only seen sliding in videos and skate alone, so it is difficult 2 guage the combinations of elements that go into the final step of actually getting the board to slide with some measure of control.
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dennis
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On 7/10/2005
M4RC10
wrote in from
Brazil
(201.14.nnn.nnn)
Thanx for sharing the video!!
Cool...
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last post
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On 7/10/2005 dennis
wrote in from
United States
(216.9.nnn.nnn)
hey david thanks for that footi, i used a bit of it..
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mary vid
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On 7/10/2005 dennis
wrote in from
United States
(216.9.nnn.nnn)
putfile is good stuff check this maryhill clipy
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Movie_00019939
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Good old crusing.
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On 7/9/2005
Casey
wrote in from
United States
(63.224.nnn.nnn)
It's all good to me, if someone makes it too fast they're going to pay for it anyway. While everyone was focusing on going faster than the next guy me and my good friends were loving every foot of Maryhill. Watch the good old days right here! http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Maryhill01-2-1 Keep on cruising guys!
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Make it break it
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On 7/9/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
You can always get a board to slide/break free. At the risk of oversimplify the explanation, you have to to stop turning and start sliding. If you keep your weight over the board, and push the level of traction of the wheels to the max, you may or may not be able to slide the board. If the turn is not that sharp and you're not going that fast, you're going to stick the turn, which might not get you out of trouble. Often times sliding in a straight line with your board perpendicular to the fall line is the safest.
You need slide gloves, a little practice, and a lot of faith. After a lot of practice, you just need the slide gloves and a little faith. You need go get your weight off the top of your board, and on to your slide glove. Once you've got the weight off the board, it will slide easily by pushing and steering it with your feet, while putting much of the downforce on the glove. It's as if you're sliding down the road on the plastic puck, and pushing the rails of the board with your feet draped over the edge.
As Cliff Coleman will tell you, when you start practicing the Coleman Slide, don't reach out with your hand - instead set it down just about 4 to 6 inches off the uphill rail of the board while leaning and beginning a heelside turn. At first you may take it really slow, put the puck down and just carve to a stop. Keep doing this and carve harder and harder until you slide to stop. Then work on more speed while sliding to a stop. You may still be carving while sliding, but eventually you can eliminate the carve to the point where you're leaning back, putting the puck down, whipping the board around and pushing it straight into a slide without turning at all.
I'd keep practicing a slide to a stop until you can do it at 25, 30 or 35mph. The try sliding a 180 into a switch stance from about 12mph to 5mph. At first you won't know what to do while riding down the hill backwards, so just jump off. Later you'll figure out how to pendulum back around until you're in your normal stance, but that's a ways away.
No matter how soft your wheels are, the board can be slid. Just get your weight off of it and push. If you don't lean aggressively enough, they could stick and you may high-side it. Reach down (not out) in a quick, confident manner and push the board away. The traction of the wheels with suck the board to your feet. With slick roads and/or slick wheels, you'll want to do everything that I mentioned while holding on to the downhill rail, otherwise you could be kicking your board into outerspace.
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Big Red X
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On 7/9/2005
Grant
wrote in from
United States
(69.166.nnn.nnn)
Hey Chaput,
Thanks for the great speed board and it was nice to meet Marylou and the dogs. All I need now is to learn how to ride half as good as you and I will be all set. I have one question: What do you do if you are in a turn with your slide glove down and you need to scrub speed for the turn but the board won't break free? I was heading right for the curb and had to bail, is there something I should have done better? Thanks Grant
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How to contact us
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On 7/8/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Hey Bob, I haven't seen anything lately so please this email address to contact Marylou or me. Orders@Sk8Trip.com. I'll give you all of our other contact from there.
Yes, I'm in email hell right now.
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877 = 800
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On 7/8/2005 EBasil
wrote in from
United States
(63.206.nnn.nnn)
Bob, have you tried the toll-free number (or the dial-up) that's listed? http://abec11.com/contact.asp
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I am not Spam!!!
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On 7/8/2005
Bob Swartz
wrote in from
United States
(69.251.nnn.nnn)
Chris, I have been trying to contact you via email many times and get no response. I am using the address you keep posting with. I am trying to conduct business with you regarding my latest project. Either you are totally ignoring me or all of my email has gone in your spam bucket. Please send me info on how to talk to you directly... email or phone..
thanks
bob
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Mods and evolution
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On 7/7/2005 Aengus
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(193.113.nnn.nnn)
Just thought I'd say that I agree with absolutly everything you've said chris, evolution should not be stunted. In every form of racing evolution has been allowed (to some degree), sure if big business is involved then they can have an advantage over the little guy with the amount of money they can throw at it. However a large amount of innovation comes from the little men and while the sport does not have alot of capital involved thats not really an issue.
What needs to be done is a definition of what is allowed should be provided at each race and if anyone comes up with somthing innovative that wins and is allowed under current rules it should be accepted. If the governing body then wants to make sure a similar thing dosent happen again they should modify the rules. Its a simple situation as far as I can see. There should never be the need to ban or change things retrospectivly.
If your worried about people having an unfair advantage you have to ask what 'fair' IS. Advantages should not be compromised to far in my eyes. I like the fact that life is unfair in its very nature, we dont have the same genetics or experiance and that makes us better or worse riders.
Should we all use the same board, wheels and trucks? Then it would be personal ability that would count.. I don't think so as I've already implied, life is intrinsically unfair and any attempt to rectify that fact is in my eyes laughable. I think its all down to the belief in equal rights, the reallity is no one has equal rights, the whole idea is just that an idea, a nirvana which has no place in our world.
However, I think you have to decide what the compatition is about, I think there are a few options:
1. just riding ability (therefore all equip the same)
2. riding ability and equipment choice (the current situ)
3. riding ability and manafacture ability (Formula 1 does this with the manafacturers competition at the same time as the normal racing.
I think following car racing rules evolution is probably best, if manafacturers want to get into it in innovative R&D then have a option 3 for them where the best riders are sponsered and compete in a F1 type class. Everyone else can compete in different races where the equip allowed is limited to stock.
I;m not sure about most of the ideas I've covered there or whether I think they'd actually work out, just a few thoughts as they came to me.
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my pnuematic $0.02
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On 7/6/2005
duane
wrote in from
United States
(68.15.nnn.nnn)
the smallest fast pnuematics in existence, as far as I know, are the 12" diamater Panaracer wheelchair racing tires, which fit spoked rims (Sun).
These are conventional bike tires but smaller. They aren't particularly fast compared to comparable sized solid urethane unless you:
-grind off the slight tread
-pump them up to 275 psi
-pray
-emply spoke covers to make disk wheel
they get faster if you wipe the tread with toluene to swell the rubber. If you do all this yes they get fast. Very fast.
yes the grip is decent but not comparable to flat urethane, the contact patch at 275 psi is miniscule (its about 1 square inch total for all 4 wheels if you weigh 275 pounds, naturally). I don't think these could take much side load without exploding violently
As you might imagine, making smaller diamater wheels in this maner gets very difficult, in fact the Panaracers tend to have a bump where the tubular layers are bonded together
Panaracers (and 99.99% of all bike tires) are bias ply, and just like bias ply car tires, friction is high because the ply's of fabric run 45 degrees to the bulge of the tire, as it rolls.
A few folks have made radial bike tires, some old dude named Rinkowsky, and more recently Michelin for eco-marathon racing. using these tires the French microjoule team got over 10,000 miles per gallon in a little aero car, with more or less regular gas.
I'm not sure what the rolling friction coefficient of Chris's 'thane is, and that number is also dependent upon tire size, grind, etc, but good bike tires are around Crr=0.030 I've seen urethane tested at just over 0.050 and I used to run some skatecar natural rubber tires that must have been well under 0.050 because they layed smoke unto the urethane, pneumatics and everything else for that matter (while they lasted; for rubber speed=fragile)
As a comparison Michelin claimed 0.010 for the eco-marathon radial tires(!). Too bad they are 16". I've noticed some of the factory teams in the Goodwood soapbox race in England seem to have these (the winners, Lotus, certainly did, and won by 5 seconds on a 60 second course)
So I think it could be done, yes they would likely be much faster, but durability would certainly be suspect and good traction is not a given with faster rubber compounds.
lets' run some goddam skatecar races and then everyone can take out this mental aggression on the course, and us no-talent geeks can have a chance, and we can leave skateboards as skateboards
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Oldmatic, Newmatic, It Don't Matic To Me
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On 7/5/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Gravity sports and roller sports have seen wheels made from wood, metal, clay, rubber, urethane and other plastic variants. There is absolutely no rule prohibiting the use of such wheels. The rubber and/or pneumatic tires that have been used for skateboarding have been dog slow thus far, which is NOT to say that couldn't be made faster, while maintaining superior traction to urethane. My limited knowledge of producung rubber tires is that it is a tricky busness, and very difficult to get consistent results, even with a huge budget. Just ask Michelin.
Duane's a smart guy, and perhaps he can shed some light on the reasons for us not seeing more rubber under our boards.
It would appear to me that hubs, valves, tubes and tires under varying pressures would require a ton of R&D for wheels with a 4" OD, with no guarantee of success or a market for the resulting products. It's taken a lot of my time and money to just try and get guys off of roller-skate wheels. It's hard to say how well Carve Boards and Summit Slicks are doing financially, but they're not really into the race scene either. Whenever it rains at a race now, we see a few guys whip out there stickier but slower rubber tires, in the hopes that they'll make up time in the turns. The guys on urethane just take it easy in the turns, and then eat'em alive in the straights. I have my own ideas about what can work in the rain...
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Duane's 100psi Panaracers
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On 7/5/2005 EBasil
wrote in from
United States
(63.206.nnn.nnn)
Well, I personally hope Duane shows up with the pneumatic tires mounted on a vintage Toft 8 wheeler (and a stack of NOS Tracker riser pads). If it's a Maryhill-style, No Limitations on Boards race, such a thing just might be legit. Under the more typical rules outlined here, either in the summaries of the various rules or in what Chaput suggests as a model, the pneumatic wheels might have some difficulty "fitting in". Hmm, not in all those rules. What's the deal on bladed spokes and tubeless?
Of course, Lonnie Toft sometimes rode on his knees. Freakin' poseur. Not even a skateboard, right?
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wheel requirements
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On 7/5/2005
sean c
wrote in from
United States
(65.175.nnn.nnn)
what happens if/when someone like duane (who is constantly talking about how his pneumatic tires would be faster) shows up at a race with a board with pneumatic tires? Is this progression or is it straying too far from the roots of skateboarding? In your opinion should wheels be limited to urethane only?
sean c
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re: Lance Armstrong
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On 7/5/2005
msk
wrote in from
United States
(68.190.nnn.nnn)
"But just imagine Lance Armstrong rocked up at the tour de france with a bike that had three wheels {not like a tricycle but behind each other} and some new mechanicsm to pedal."
Couldn't happen. If you've been watching the Tour so far, the bikes you've seen Lance riding in the Prologue and TTT are at the very limit of what the rules will currently allow. The UCI (cycling's governing body) has *very* rigid definitions of what a bike is, including frame shape, handlebar placement, weight, seat placement, wheelbase, tubing diameter, etc. The bike I used to race in time trials 12 years ago (a Zipp 2001), is now illegal because the frame shape is wrong. The UCI has become so obsessive about equipment rules (some of which they've even admitted are purely about "how the bike looks") that many in the industry have banded together to protest what they feel is killing innovation in the sport. A few years ago, the UCI even went as far as to throw out every hour record set since 1972, since that was the last year the record was set on a "real" bike.
In comparison, the rules regarding slalom and downhill skateboards are practically wide open...
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Bi means two
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On 7/5/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
It doesn't matter where you put them, having three wheels is contrary to the definition of a bicycle. Period.
Skateboards have traditionally been defined as a lean-steer board that you stand on, and NOT by the number of wheels. Note that inliners have used 2, 3, 4, 5 or even more wheels per skate in racing. Bikes, trikes and quads are examples of vehicles defined by the number of wheels.
Streetluges have gone from 4 wheels, to 6 wheels, and even to 8 wheels, and it's accepted as a part of the sport's evolution. They've also gone from pegless to pegged, and back to pegless.
The truth of the matter is, I could argue the case for continuing NOT to limit the number of wheels, and I could also argue the case to change the current rules to limit the number. Only GSI limits the number to exactly 4.
It just seems pretty silly to me to all of a sudden start saying, "We are skateboarders, and we only use skateboarding equipment!", while standing around in our motorcycle leathers, with blue roller-skate wheels, tennis shoes, and motor sports helmets. At least our gardening gloves with the cutting boards on the palms is traditional. Oh, it's not. My bad.
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Lance Armstrong
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On 7/5/2005 Justin
wrote in from
South Africa
(196.25.nnn.nnn)
But just imagine Lance Armstrong rocked up at the tour de france with a bike that had three wheels {not like a tricycle but behind each other} and some new mechanicsm to pedal. Everybody would freak out cause it doesnt look like the traditional 2 wheeled racer.
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Limit to 4 Wheels?
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On 7/5/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
I don't think that it's a good idea to limit the number of wheels to 4. It would probably just be a knee-jerk reaction to the speedboard that I used in Marryhill. That board is over the length, width, height, and weight that I've proposed. It's hard to say what the reaction of riders would be, if it merely had six wheels.
If we were talking about an extra motor, transmission, chassis, and tires on a race car, it would be an expensive upgrade. But we're talking about one skateboard truck (which lasts forever) and two wheels (that last twice as long now) which is cheap. Skateboarding is the least expensive form of racing on the planet, and this doesn't change that.
Then there's the issue of "purity" and "tradition". And you have ask yourself if you want to prevent the sport from evolving because "that's not the way we've done it in the past". Using 6 wheels is an easy thing to spot. Huge changes in decks such as foam cores, aluminum, carbon fibers, v-lams, fiberglass, drop-throughs, and drop-decks aren't nearly as noticable. Having custom trucks is also not nearly as obvious as 6 wheels. As a result, having 6 wheels is an easy target when it comes to banning certain boards. I look at it this way - All Speedboards are skateboards, but not all skateboards are Speedboards. Therefore we shouldn't look at what a traditional skateboard has looked like to determine what is appropriate in Speedboarding. I think that what is appropriate is what an individual finds to be the fastest and safest lean-steer board that he can stand on down the mountin.
If anything, a 6 wheel skateboard has a certain amount of "eye candy" for pictures, video, and the media. It could be one of many points of differentiation that an audience could hone in on, making the sport a bit more interesting than "just a bunch of guys with motorcycle leathers and helmets riding a skateboard down a hill". I've travelled to many remote locations to see our races observed by more animals than humans, but we don't have live in obscurity for racing to be cool. Ask anyone who has been to the DHX what it's like to race on a track that is 3 deep with fans on every inch of the track, with a JumboTron, TV, prizemoney and trophies. I think that it's cool.
I've been watching The Discovery Channel and OLN lately, seeing how Lance Armstrong and his team is using technology to help them in racing. I think that it's cool. Every team is doing what they can to get themselves ready for battle on the streets and in the mountains of France. IT'S INTERESTING. You don't have to be a fan of bike racing to find it entertaining and educational. There will be a point where most of the technology will have played itself out, and any advantage from one rider to another will be minute, at best. The result is that EVERYONE benefits from the technology, and the guys who can race bikes the best will win. That sounds like a win-win to me.
Our sport has guys who want to impose rules that say that the only thing that can touch your board is the bottom of your feet. This means that you can't grab a rail or touch the board. This means that your knee can't touch the board. You'll notice that these guys don't ride much anymore, and that we've moved on to riding much more technical hills with incredible skill and sliding technique. Ironically, these are some of the guys who first used double-front truck setups in gravity sports.
In short, I don't see a problem with 6 wheel speedboards. I do see a problem sharing the road with boards that are too long, boards that are too wide, boards that are too tall, and boards that weigh too much.
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6 wheels
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On 7/5/2005
panda
wrote in from
France
(82.225.nnn.nnn)
The rules you laid out seem to make sense.
No mention of the number of wheels though.
Do you think skateboards should be limited to exactly 4 wheels or is there room fo r 6 wheel racing in your book ?
Ideally would you like to run 6 wheel setups again ?
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