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| Q&A: McKendry on Speed (1810 Posts)
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Liquid Trucks
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On 8/7/2005
Dave
wrote in from
United States
(70.32.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
What's the word on the Liquid trucks?
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101 vs 70
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On 8/7/2005
Andreas
wrote in from
Sweden
(83.226.nnn.nnn)
Chris
We did trial runs side by side in åre. Åre is 2,5km and has a top speed of 80km.
One rider had 101mm 75a flywheels(kurt) and the other had 70mm 84a flashbacks(ankan).
Coming in to the first corner thay were side by side (same speed) and coming out of the corner they were still side by side.
They staid side by side all the way down the line.
The only diffrens was that ankans flashis where eaten up and nicely coned.
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Speedy Duros
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On 8/6/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Jonathan, Good question!
Here's one way that I look at it:
I categorize urethane into 2 basic types - "dead", and "lively".
I categorize durometers into 3 basic types - "soft", "firm", and "hard".
Soft for me is 72a, 75a, 78a, and 81a
Firm for me is 81a, 84a, 88a, and 92a
Hard for me is 92a, 94a, 96a, and 98a
You'll notice that there are shared durometers that I call "tweeners", namely 81a and 92a. These are between soft and firm, and between firm and hard, respectively.
The speed as related to the hardness of the wheel, is usually based on how much, and how quickly you need to turn.
1. You don't need to turn much at all. If you are doing flip tricks, wheels are more like "landing gear" for smooth concrete. These are small, rounded, rock hard wheels. If roundwall and/or coping is involved, not much is needed in terms of a contact patch. Traction isn't as much of an issue because the banked walls hold you in a turn, or you aren't turning that much to begin with. The wheels are hard (like ball bearings), and the surface of the concrete or ramp is hard (like a bearing race), and so you'd expect that the smoother the surface and the harder the wheel, the faster you'd go. Lively formulas do exist, and contribute to speed as well. Cored wheels in the mid to high 90's are fast.
2. You need to turn a little. In Downhill, carving, and cruising, the turns that you make are much wider than in Slalom, for example. Here roll-speed is king, and there's nothing quite as fast as a soft, high-rebound wheel. Since you usually want to slow in the turns anyway, you aren't penalized for having the soft wheels that deform and maintain contact with the ground in the turns. The rider is usually in a low CG position to handle the tendency for a sticky wheel to grab. 75a is a sweetspot for speed.
3. You need to turn a lot. If you are involved in sport like Slalom, roll-speed is no longer the holy grail for speed. Controlled traction is king. The control is helped by a firmer formula that prevents the wheels from deforming too much, and that slides more predictably when pushed beyond the limit of traction. Because the rider (and not gravity) is providing most of the speed, traction is more important than roll-speed, and a deader formula is more acceptable for Slalom. There is a tendency for the road surfaces to be smoother in Slalom, making even firmer formulas still acceptable. The rider's technique also contributes to some of the traction. 81a, 84a, and 88a are fast durometers for quick turning applications.
So, to answer your question about roll-speed for Downhill, go with a high-rebound 75a wheel that is 76mm or more, regardless of how smooth the road is. You won't go any faster with a harder wheel, unless of course the entire road is a half mile of polished concrete. If you want more longevity, get it in 78a. If you want more controlled sliding, go with the 81a. We don't mass-produce our 72a formula any more. Not because it isn't fast (it's very fast), but because the average consumer wouldn't be happy with the life-expectancy.
Brad, The 76mm Gumballs in 75a or 78a are awesome for beginners or experts alike. The 77mm Strikers are better suited for speed-sliders. The Flywheel series is great for high-end speed and for boards that are designed for huge wheels.
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Hard wheels, soft wheels, speed
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On 8/2/2005
Jonathan Harms
wrote in from
United States
(165.134.nnn.nnn)
Chris, under what conditions is a softer wheel faster than a harder one, and why? To put it another way, under what race conditions would you, personally, choose to ride, say, a 75A or 78A Gumball rather than 81A or 84A (or vice versa)? I'm sure the short answer is that the softies would be smoother on rougher pavement, but can you go into more detail? What differs in how the hard & soft wheels actually roll on various types of pavement that makes it so? In this case I'm interested mainly in roll speed for downhill, either in a straight line or with minimal-to-average turning (i.e. NOT hard GS or slalom-style turns).
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wheels for 1st downhill
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On 8/2/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(155.229.nnn.nnn)
Chris (or anyone)
What would be your choice of green goonies for a 1st time downhill racer?
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sliding from high boards
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On 7/26/2005 brad
wrote in from
United States
(155.229.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
Thanks for taking the time to give such detailed slide advice (once again!). I am still working on my sliding so I can go down the big hills at speed with safety and confidence. I followed your advice and setup RII 150's with Flashback 92a on a 36" board. I was not able to commit to getting my glove down. I was padded where I needed it, including padded shorts just in case, but continued to bypass my opportunities like a new surfer going for a wave, then passing it up.
Getting a low profile setup and getting really really low before sliding really helped!!!, so I was able to move from laying my glove down gradually to going down as if I were on a high setup, and hopefully and now ready to try the Randals and Flashbacks. I found that your statement regarding the board turning too much from this setup and technique to be true, so at this point I am basically turning a 180.
My question is this: I don't know what you mean by "You have to momentairy "pitch" your board out in front of you while falling onto your back slideglove"
Also, does it make any difference if I lay my glove down towards the middle or back of the board?
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92mm wheels.
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On 7/26/2005
Jimmy Flindt.
wrote in from
Canada
(24.66.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
Thank you very very much for the wheels, I won the VERNON race last weekend on the 92mm wheels, I want more 92mm wheels!
Peace, Jimmy.
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Getting Back on the Horse
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On 7/24/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Yup, you gotta get back up on the horse as soon as possible. But now that you're back in the saddle, what are you gonna do to stay upright, instead of uptight? I suggest that you not start thinking about how to go fast again right away. You gotta start thinking about tuning up the clubs in your bag. Speedboarding is not all about going the fastest, it's about slowing down the least. And ironically, learning to brake effectively is what helps you the most. And learning to brake effectively, and with CONFIDENCE, is what keeps the head clear and the legs strong in an upcoming corner. Knowing that no matter what happens, you'll be able to decellerate quickly and avoid serious injury, is what allows old guys like me do to be competitive into his mid forties.
If you don't know how to throw down a slide, instantly and decisively, and in both directions, you're going to be skating with fear and uncertainty. This is hazardous to you and to others. I want to skate with guys with brains, not balls. Everyone has to have enough guts to stand on a board and go down the hill, but I want to ride with the guys who are smart enough and disciplined enough to practice the more "boring" parts of our skillset. You gotta learn to walk, before you can learn to fly.
Learn to Coleman slide
Learn to toeside slide
Learn to footbrake
Learn to scrub carve
Learn to slide into corner
Learn to pendulum slide
Then learn to all of these at speed. Only then will you be able to really enjoy a run, and be able to practice losing less speed through through the turns. Surviving a turn is nice, but it shouldn't be the goal. Gaining competence at the skill, and growing it into an artform is the goal. Use quality equipment. Slide unto your wheels are scrubbed. It's way cheaper than paying in leather, flesh, and bone. I like plastic over leather until I know the course or hill. All of this breeds a feeling of security which in turn makes downhill even more fun than just the adrenaline rush that comes with the territory. Sharing the road with other (hopefully better) riders is an awesome experience. You've got a front row seat from a perspective than no one on the planet is sharing. The run is like a game of chess - it starts out pretty much the same but before it's over, all hell breaks loose. And everyone in the game shares his part of the story at the bottom. And that story will never be duplicated. Put these experiences in the bank, and make the necessary withdrawals when familiar circumstances present themselves in future runs. That is what works for me.
Sliding from high boards:
Ever go to pop a squat on the porcelain alter only to find that you didn't notice that the seat wasn't down? Well, that split second of terror is kind of like what happens when you have to "drop" into a slide from a high board, rather than to just reach down into a slide from a low one. It's a bit of an act of faith at first, but later becomes second nature. You have to momentairy "pitch" your board out in front of you while falling onto your back slideglove, because you turn too much if you were to just lean until you could reach the asphalt. After you've thrown slides from tall boards, low boards, longboards and short boards, you'll instinctively know how much to crank the board, and how much to pitch the board (if at all). You can slide any board, with any wheels, at any height, within reason. I know that Randals and tall wheels is a relative high setup, but it shouldn't be a problem. You might even find that a low CG board is harder (although much lower), especially if it has big sticky wheels and slow turning trucks (Gumballs and DH trucks on a Big Red X Speedboard, for example). Since it turns slowly, and the wheels are sticky, you have to really throw the beast around to get it in front of you, and then push the board by the rails instead of the top of the deck.
Get on a bunny slope with a fairly loose board and practice pushing as fast as you can (until you can't go any faster). As soon as you get your feet back on the board, immediately throw down a slide. Try this sliding both ways. This is kind of like what would happen if you were foot braking and found out out that you were still going way too hot into a corner. It also preps you for racelike conditions where a good push at the start can be a big help. It's also a good workout, and will help to know how your lens will fog when you're breathing hard. Push back up the hill, alternating your push foot every three or four strokes. This builds symmetry. Push as hard as you can and then footdrag. Rinse. Repeat.
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Nerves and ride height
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On 7/23/2005 Aengus
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(193.113.nnn.nnn)
Hey guys,
Ned, thats a bummer about the stack, glad your alright, I think I generally speak for everyone in saying that the nerves are somting you just got push through. Take it at your own pace and pad up fully but other than that its up to you to push yourself to get back to you former form. Your mind has learnt that speed equals stack, you gotta teach it different and you'll be goin against the flow.
S'kinda one of the bits I love bout the skateboard, kinda forces you outside of the box of what your survival instincts say is sensible.
On the ride height, I dont think it matters to much, I prefer low as poss for everything and sliding is no different, having said that, you should be able to touch the ground on pretty much any set up if you crouch down. If your 'dropping' into the slide you'll damage the joints in your arms, so crouch down first, touch the ground and then think about the slide. Also with the truck tightness thing I prefer them tight.. That way they dont squirrel around mid slide but loose is somtimes nice for a change. I noticed all the faltown rew (or most) had loose trucks so...
Cheers
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Wheel dimension and sliding
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On 7/22/2005 brad
wrote in from
United States
(216.233.nnn.nnn)
jason,
the post your referring to was 2 me, and chris told me 2 use randal 150's i c u have rii 180's, but sliding requires your board to make a tight turn, so narrower trucks should help sliding a curve at speed on rii 180's is cool cause u don't need 2 make a tight turn
i purposely chose Venture trucks for their LOW profile (they are also really
narrow and light!), it's incredible how low they r put next 2 the randals,
the ventures may not be desiged for downhill, but they are working for my sliding while i am getting my skills up
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Wheel dimension and sliding
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On 7/22/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(216.233.nnn.nnn)
chris recommended i use randals and flashbacks and learn to lean over my board, but as i am learning, this was 2 high 4 me when i crouch down and went 2 put my glove down for a coleman, i felt like the vertical drop involved in getting my glove on the ground added way 2 daunting and complicated matters, while switching 2 smaller wheels and lower trucks meant all i had 2 deal with the the movement off the board with only the smallest vertical drop involved 2 get my glove on the ground, although i did c one faltown pick where cliff had some greens on board
perhaps if i was in a workshop or skated with others who were sliding, it would work,
but i changed trucks to venture LOW and wheels to gravity 90a and have comet 90a on the way. if u look at most of the pics and videos of Cliff, Sergio, and faltown sliders on this site or linked to it, u can c that their setup leaves them close 2 the ground
anyway switching first to a 36" board with kicks at both ends and using smaller wheels and lower trucks has worked incredibly well 4 me
now with my board so close to the ground it is much easier 4 me to lean onto my glove when i get better, i will go back to the randals and green goonies
in the gravity flow dvd, it also looks like cliff, sergio, and other sliders are close 2 the ground
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Wheel dimension and sliding
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On 7/22/2005 Jason
wrote in from
United States
(68.40.nnn.nnn)
I noticed in Chris' post from July 11th that he mentions learning to lean over from a "higher" platform to slide position. I have been learning to slide on 73mm Gravity Sliders with RII 180's and very thin rubber risers. If I used, say, 65mm No Skoolz with the same set-up, would I find that the feel of my body over the side of the board would feel closer to the ground in general? I a few mm's seems like it would make some difference but not too much. What are your opinions?
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re panic
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On 7/22/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(155.229.nnn.nnn)
take the longest run that you feel comfortable with and just keep going alittle higher each run u can't be concerned with looking a little wimpy if rour first runs begin nearvthe bottom oif the hill
u will b surprised how quickly your confidence will return as u do the smaller runs leading back up the hill, do things to increase your confidence like crazy carve and slide stuff, so that u r not just making it down the hill, but feel a sense of mastery at each height on the way up
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"The Panic"
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On 7/22/2005
Pavement Studios
wrote in from
United States
(192.77.nnn.nnn)
Anyone have any psycho-analysis / advice / wisdom for the "panic" that sets in after you take a pretty good whack? I just started skating after a 15-year break and I bit it pretty hard against a parked car avoiding traffic on a downhill cruise last month in NYC, got banged up just a little... Ever since, when I start gaining speed down a hill (25mph) my stomach flips out and I'll wimp out into a footbrake or carve/slide, while the rest of my crew bombs the hill no problem. So yeah, now I've got these badass Flywheels on a sweet little ride, but no nerves to take advantage of it... Thanks, Ned
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^6-Wheeler Oops/addenda
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On 7/15/2005 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
The last sentence of that 3rd paragraph should've read "By example, Tracker's DART is a good rear truck" ... THe Axis is more Indy-like, and I wouldn't recommend it at the rear for stability. My bad.. At least I caught it this time. ;-)
Now I know why Mr. Chaput has his own page.. I'd need a full time editor!
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6-wheelers
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On 7/15/2005 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
Patrick, even though this IS C.C.'s spot on NCDSA, I've got to tell you a few things I know about 6-wheeler set-ups. Chris may have alternative ideas in the works, so consider my opinions as 'amatuer', but with 27 years of tinkering tossed in there.
Wheelbases on six-wheelers need to have a bit of difference in angles between the foremost truck and the rear/middle truck. This can be done by either a 'slight' wedge difference (1*-2* is enough) or by carefully selecting your bushings in height/stiffness, so that a slight variable in angles or turning resistance is created that makes the foremost truck has a steeper turn ratio.
Rear trucks need to compliment the entire setup. The ride height overall is dictated by this truck's set-up. I recommend that you keep the rear-most truck a 'lesser steering' type of truck, but set-up so that when it leans, it dosen't dramatically change it's ride height. If it changes ride height by board flex, or by altercation of it's axle-to-deck distance, the front truck axles will have varying loads imposed on them, possibly leading to wobbles or worse, wheel-to-wheel rub. By example, Tracker's Axis is a good rear-truck choice in it's turning predictability.
So turn angles count in the overall stability of the board, but the 'bulk' of the steering effort is directed up front, over the 'middle' truck. The foremost truck carries a 'lighter' load with low-cambered or solid decks. Picking bushings that are very similar, but have slight differences in either durometer or ride height for those front trucks is kind of important.
Wheel sizing is important, so be consistent here. IF you go with bigger/smaller wheels, be sure that differential is on the REAR truck. The 4 front wheels should be as similar in size as possible. Front wheels can up to 6-8 A-shore points harder, because they'll have more than enough contact to obtain grip.
Lastly, do NOT use a flexible deck, nor should you use a board with pronouced Camber. The Exception would be if you build a Luge, where you can have an 'active' flex for the rear truck, but you'd still want massive stability up front (2/3rds weight bias without footpegs, more with pegs). You'll note that C.C.'s DH board is rather rigidly made in regards to the front and looks pretty hefty through the main deck as well. There's likely a good reason for this...
One cool item I've discovered with using 6-wheelers is that 'wobbles' don't occur as easily, especially over unexpected obstacles such as manhole covers or little potholes. Wobbles can and do occur, they just aren't as severe or irrecoverable. Back in the day, wheels that self destructed at speed (thanks to RollerSkate construction) was a legit concern, and having two healthy axles worth of wheels under you when things went Gaa-Gaa was a Nice Thing to have. It's less of a concern now, as in the last 8 years, we've seen a nice assortment of wheels that don't just peel off the cores at double-nickle speeds, but a 6-wheeler can provide a bit of extra self-preservation on certain hills.
You'll likely have to build your own board, and as such, I heartily invite you to look at going "Burly" with the construction, doing what you can to take flex and torsional weakness out of the equation. Good luck with it!
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6 wheel speedboards
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On 7/15/2005
patrick
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
Chris
First I wanna just say that I am amazed with your results at Mary Hill. Congratulations. I also wanted to know how I might go about setting up a six wheel board. Do you have any prototypes for sale? I currently ride a 42 big red x with 83mm 72a flywheels and I love it to death. The board you had at MaryHill looked disgusting. I would love to add a board like it to my quiver, any ideas suggestions would be put to use so fire away. I love that you went there on untested equipment on a hill you had never been to and blew them away. You the man.
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Pink
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On 7/13/2005
Isabelle
wrote in from
United States
(68.7.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
I'm running AllGirlDownhill/Slalom clinics down here in SD AND my high school skate clubbers haved asked me multiple times............WHAT'S UP WITH PINK?
Hope you're getting your share of speed lately.......
As for us, the surf's been good, and we've great weather for pools/downhill skating - we're fat 'n happy!
Hope to hear form you soon,
Peace
Iz
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Slide Board
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On 7/11/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Brad, Thanks for the props. You might want to try a smaller overall setup when for sliding. If you had a medium length board with R-II 150s and 92a Flashbacks, you could learn to lean over from a higher platform, and also practice standing slides with greater ease. With about 1/4" riser and wheel-wells, you won't need big cutouts.
Other good medium sized wheels include 65mm NO SkoolZ in 92a and 66mm Strikers in 88a. Later you can always go to the bigger 76mm, 77mm, 83mm, 90mm, or even 97mm wheels on a dropped deck.
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Make it break it
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On 7/11/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(155.229.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
One more question regarding sliding. I am skating on an Evo which I think I will be using when I hit the bigger hills. It is quite heavy, being 11 ply. Do you think, as far as learning, that the weight of the board affects how easy it slides. I was thinkg of getting a lighter shorter board, which I thought might provide less resistance to sliding. But then the inertia of the heavier board of course is greater which I assume would affect the slide.
As an added note, with my very short arms, I wasn't able to just put my backside glove down until I used a dropped board which gets me really close to the ground.
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Make it break it
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On 7/11/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(155.229.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
Thanks for taking the time not only to answer my question, but to respond with such detailed advice. I, probably like a lot of skaters, have been working on my slide for a long time, twice getting close and twice giving it up, and now back at it again, but I know that the slide is the key to safety and control on serious hills, and, at least for me, the major skill I want to master before hitting the serious mountain grades and turns(which is why this is an appropriate topic on a downhill forum).
The exercises sound excellent and the part about using the gentle hill for these exercises will, I believe, be a big help, as the grade of the hill I have been practicing on does not allow me to make more than one attempt before reaching the bottom of the hill(read city street). From your note, it sounds like I should switch back from the Yupees, which I thought would help, to the 90a's I had or back to Green Goonies, which I always skate with. My 83a Flashbacks are a little too soft, I think, for learning to slide. As I always skate with green goonies, perhaps you could suggest the best one for skaters learning to slide. I was thinking of the 88a Strikers.
As someone learning, I would suggest to all those bombers out there to stop and learn to slide. The Crashes forum is full of horror tales about reckless skaters.
I was pleased to see the suggesting about carving drills while learning to slide. if this rain ever stops, I will let you know how these exercises worked. What I want to do, is to follow your directions quite explicitly, as if I were in a class, and so that I may provide specific feedback.
Your attention to minute detail as to what elements provide what effect was given a excellent test at Maryhill. Unfortunately, the forum conversations online were not about how your wheel and board configuration played a role in speed, grip, and turning, which is really the most interesting part of the results of the race. I agree with Cliff that there is no racer really close to your abilities in so many areas of skateboarding. Anyone whose seen those crazy videos on your site doing freestyle and sliding along with always top placing in all the slalom and downhill is really amazing!!! I think your name is the only one I see at the top of both slalom and downhill categories in race results, but I am still waiting to see the board you design for the skating-on-your-head downhill.
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Dosche Video
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On 7/11/2005
Casey
wrote in from
United States
(63.224.nnn.nnn)
Allright, here's the clip of that hill in Portland. It's actually a bit longer than it starts and ends in the clip and there are a lot of different options of ways to do it. The first section is a mellow 25-30mph cruise, then there's the stop sign and usually we go right and do a steep 35-40mph stretch. If you go a different way at the stop sign you can push for about a mile and then do a long mellow 30 minute cruise all the way to downtown(10-20mph).-----> http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Dosche-1 <----- Hope you enjoy it!
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Video2
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On 7/11/2005
Casey
wrote in from
United States
(63.224.nnn.nnn)
Awesome! How long is that hill? Looked like you got going close to 40, though it's hard to tell. I'll put something together soon with this 4 minute hill in Portland for ya.
Mr Chaput, just curious - I have a shortboard with Gumballs, but I cruise with all my longboarding friends, do you know if sliding works on a board like this?
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Video
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On 7/10/2005
Casey
wrote in from
United States
(63.224.nnn.nnn)
Damn, that last link is to the first video. I'll come back later and see if you've got it up.
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