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| Bearing Reviews (4976 Posts)
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Spacer Spectacle
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On 11/8/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Measured out,by the book .4125,seems right on but guess what? it leaves me backing off a 1/8 turn:0,so being in the somewhat unique situation of having a lathe i made another spacer .418 , still about the same,a few spacers later i was at like .430,and its gettin close,noticed this set of bearings is kind of dry,about to fix that,i guess when you measure without spacers the inner race is not centered on the outer race,there is quite a bit of play in even a new bearing,by the way,this is on a pretty new set of transparent red Aluminators,dirt in the hubs is not an issue.
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swiss bones
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On 11/7/2000 joe damagio
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
there the best!
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Spacers
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On 11/7/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Theres a little goal for me,a truely accurate spacing job,i have lathe cut spacers,that i made,but i just got some new ideas,put the bearings in,oil film ect.,then use the digital calipers depth measurer through the bearings to something flat, subtract total bearing thickness, and you have spacer width,to the thousanth, we'll see.
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1/8 turn
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On 11/6/2000 roger
wrote in from
(198.206.nnn.nnn)
To be realistic, 1/8 turn backed off from fully tightened is a pretty good target. Only a few of my wheels can I get really good spin when fully tightened. Not surprising since lengths of spacers are not precise, I am measuring 0.390" to .415" depending on the set. I don't have the correct setup to accurately measure the spacing of bearing seats in wheel hubs - but would expect some variance in tolerance between manufactures as well.
Gee, all I want is for the bearings to be parallel to each other, perpendicular to the axle, evenly distribute the forces they encounter, convert the least amount of energy to heat, and last forever ;)
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sloppy wheels
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On 11/6/2000
roger
wrote in from
(198.206.nnn.nnn)
If you have to backoff 1/8 a turn for a freespin then that means that the spacing in the wheels hub is slightly larger than the bearing spacer used. Often this is because there is a burr/shaving, dirt, or other foreign material preventing the bearing of seating properly - more importantly, and of much greater concern, it can be an indicator that the bearings are not be parallel to each other and perpendicular to the axle.
Always clean out the internals of a wheel. Make sure there is nothing in the bearing seats, especially on the shoulder spacing the bearings. Any stuff on the bearing seat will get pushed towards the shoulder and can prevent the bearing to fully seat correctly, parallel to each other and perpendicular to the axle. A small film of oil on the outside of a bearing will help it to fully seat. I wonder if any of those bearing presses confirm spacing and alignment.
A free spinning wheel with tight axle nuts is requires more attention to all details and is more difficult than partially tightened wheels (that allow a little play, or slop, to tolerate small misalignments). If you can't assemble with precision then don't fully tighten. It is better to have loosened axle nuts than attempting to force a misalignment with fully tightened axle nuts.
Use correct spacers, tighten the axle nuts - but not to the point that it will misalign the bearings and prevent free spin. Some are happy with sloppy wheels, some are not.
Roger
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Spacer Nazi's
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On 11/6/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Man,i've seen some pretty militant spacer advocates on this page,wow. I must say,i've never had spacers work 100%,when i say 100% i mean just tighten down and leave them,always had to back off that hair,1/8 turn whatever,even aluminators and their little fling saucer spacers, there is still a little play,it's not really a big deal the still do what they're supposed to do which is to distribute side loads onto both bearings instead of the one opposite the direction of the sideways stress .The abs system promises to eliminate that back off step,and abs spacer system,not only spaces between the bearings but between the axle and the bearings with the 10mm bore(hole in the middle)this eliminates the slop between 8mm bearings and 5/16 axles,ideally the abs spacers will have a 5/16 inside diameter, like the idea behind this system because i thought of it too,they didn't copy from me,independant invention, Reflex has the money to produce them,the price should be lower,my bearings cost four bucks each and they were abec 3 greased,then i had to make all the spacers,mine are not exactly like theirs, i may copy them,and make a new set of spacers,i just put my "abs" system on my speed board,they were on my around town Stroker carving board.
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Spacer Nazi's
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On 11/6/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Man,i've seen some pretty militant spacer advocates on this page,wow. I must say,i've never had spacers work 100%,when i say 100% i mean just tighten down and leave them,always had to back off that hair,1/8 turn whatever,even aluminators and their little fling saucer spacers, there is still a little play,it's not really a big deal the still do what they're supposed to do which is to distribute side loads onto both bearings instead of the one opposite the direction of the sideways stress .The abs system promises to eliminate that back off step,and abs spacer system,not only spaces between the bearings but between the axle and the bearings with the 10mm bore(hole in the middle)i like the idea behind this system because i thought of it too,they didn't copy from me, Reflex is just gonna produce them,the price should be lower,my bearings cost four bucks each then i had to make all the spacers,mine are not exactly like theirs, i may copy them,and make a new set of spacers,i just put my "abs" system on my speed board,they were on my around town Stroker carving board.
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relfex bearinz
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On 11/6/2000
david
wrote in from
(209.178.nnn.nnn)
somebody posted about the relfex bearing a couple of weeks ago and they were right. the "anti lock" system was invented about 20 years ago, they are called spacers
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Abs
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On 11/6/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
I've posted a couple of times on these,see,i came up with the idea about 8 months ago,i had to wait to try them because of a last dusting of snow,may be i'll look back,search "6900" thats the industrial reference number for that demension bearing,reg skate bearings are 608's,my bearings are abec 3 and greased,so they've taken a while to come up to speed but they seem durable. Maybe i'll swap them over to my speed board.Gotta put my ceramics back in storage.
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Reflex bearings
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On 11/6/2000
jetlabels
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
Has anybody heard anything about reflex a.b.s. (anti-lock bearing system) bearings? They have larger diameter inner hole. These bearings are held on the axle by an t-sleeve insert. This insert is supposed to help keep the bearings in alignment with each other. It looks like a pretty good idea, if you don't mind being stuck buying only their bearings. http://www.reflexbearings.com/abs.html
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Hey DT...
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On 11/4/2000
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
...I swear your post wan't there a second ago...
See you manana.
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Yes, but...
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On 11/4/2000
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
Q: Who has done the tests? Who is doing the tests? Who will do the tests?
A: No one has. No one is. No one will.
Unless a bearing manufacturer knows for a fact that its bearings would come out on top of all relevant bearing tests, there is absolutely no incentive for anyone to take the time, money and effort necessary to run a series of tests on bearings when a good marketing effort would provide a better ROI.
Call me a skeptic or a pessimist, but I think that "bearing technology" in the skateboard industry will continue to be more voodoo than science for many years to come. It's too bad because I would really like a competitive advange in racing but I can't honestly say that I notice any significant difference from run to run using different bearings. There are just too many other factors contributing to a run's speed or lack thereof. If you guys can tell the difference, God bless you. I can't.
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bearing tests
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On 11/4/2000
DT
wrote in from
(24.177.nnn.nnn)
keep your eyes open, a test is in the works.
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Bearing test
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On 11/4/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
I think it should be done,meaningful or not, that can be interpretted later,figuring out what variables were not taken into account,i think we can live with the dust variable,keeping track of riders weight,set up all the boards as equal as possible,all new wheels,test all bearings new,out of the box,and run some well broken in bearings as a test.Run a few different hills,ones with flatter sections in the middle,sections that slow up,but not to pushing speeds,will show off the really smooth bearings,sharp corners really add more variables,so a straight rollercoaster hill would work the best.I think the difference between Swiss bones and China bones is probabely interesting to enough people to do a bearing test,throw in old swiss and old chinas,and we're already cookin and thats before the ceramics get tested,Ninjas Abec 3,5,7, could settle the the ABEC question then some minimizers,Black Panthers,Reflex 3 and 5,Speedemons,GMN's from Z,With/without spacers oh boy!that'll ruffle feathers,8mm axles,theres a board to watch.
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Bearing tests
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On 11/3/2000
Chris chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
In order to conduct a meaningful test of a bearings speed and endurance, you would have to conduct the same experiment over and over and over again with the only change being the bearings themselves. It would have to be conducted in a clean room the size of the Grand Canyon so that sand, dust and dirt do not taint the results. These are not real world conditions, and real world conditions do not lend themselves to meaningful tests either so we're in a kind of "who are you gonna trust" situation. Roger said that "...clearly some make/models are better than others..." and I would agree that some are better than others but it is NOT clear to me which are better and why. It's kind of a crap shoot boys, if the bearing craps out, you lose. I just hope you didn't bet a bundle.
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Bearings "World"
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On 11/1/2000 Kurt
wrote in from
(63.232.nnn.nnn)
Looks like you agree. If it rolls, ride it. If it don't, pitch it! Abec Shmabec!
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old bearings
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On 11/1/2000 shnitzel
wrote in from
(24.65.nnn.nnn)
roger, well put.
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rambling
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On 10/31/2000
roger
wrote in from
(198.206.nnn.nnn)
How fast a bearing is in it's first hour, day, or month is less important to me as how reliable it is after a year. Meaningful measurements would include prolonged stress tests, resistance to moisture/rust. I care more about how a bearing wears, ages, and deals with the environment than it's initial measurements.
Electrical switches are tested by turning them off/on many many times, they exposed to moisture, temperature, and other environmental stresses. Hard drives have MTBF ratings as well as their speed and appliances have their efficiencies rated. Skateboard bearings do not have specifications for frictional losses (efficiency), environmental effects, or anything of actual importance.
Do we ever see tests where bearings are placed in a wheel and repeatedly spun from 0 mph to 80mph with both horizontal vertical loads? Do we ever see tests about how bearings rust or seal out dust? Do we ever see any tests that are really meaningful? One side says abec means nothing, another side says Swiss do not make or have anything to do with bearings. Both claim to have researched and have experience in the area of skateboard bearings, none provide anything resembling science or any sound methodology of ranking bearings, IT IS ALL MARKETING.
But clearly some make/models are better than others, and some bearings in a package are better than others in the same package. I have a couple of Swiss Bones that suck big, the rest are not bad. I have a few China Bones that are better than an average Swiss Bone, and I have some that are crap, in the trash can. Just got a set of Ninja, so will see how they stand up though time.
THE BEST SET OF BEARINGS ARE AN OLD SET WITH THE DUDS WEEDED OUT.
It is just too expensive for a manufacture to wear in bearings and filter out those that do not last, but that is exactly how you get the best bearings.
Roger
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Bearings that work
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On 10/31/2000 Pre-School Rider
wrote in from
(209.198.nnn.nnn)
My opinion on bearings is simple.Go for Quality.Nothing beats Old-World engineering for a solid dose of quality.The Germans,Swiss,Swedes,Italians,and sometimes the Russians make bearings that roll well.The Brits,Japanese,and Americans do well,but it's not quite the same.If you see SKF or NMB bearings made in Singapore/Thailand/Indoneasia,and compare them for smoothness and longevity to their older,European counterparts,you'll see,feel,hear a difference in Quality,that will be very noticable ten years,or hundreds of miles down the road.
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bearings
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On 10/31/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Okay... I'll bite (a little bit anyways)
While bearings are a small part of the overall high speeds that can be acheived on a skateboard, I do believe that they should not be overlooked. My personal opinion is that you should buy the best quality that you can afford and then take good proper care of them.
Sure, any quality bearing is built to withstand hundreds of miles an hour worth of spin. But do they all accelerate the same? Maybe there isn't enough difference to be able to tell. Do they all ride as smooth as eachother at lower speeds? That ones a no.
I personally like my very old germans the best of all... I keep them clean an oiled. Maybe they aren't any faster than any others I have, but they feel faster. The ride feels smoother than any of the others.
Is it all in my mind? You bet it is!
Do I want a set of ceramics? You bet I do! Not because they will be any faster... but because they are cool! I've never riden them, so maybe they really aren't that cool. But the thought of riding on tiny clay (sort of clay) balls sounds really cool. Will I pay the price... no way! But when the price comes down to 30.00 a set, I'll buy two!
So does it really matter which bearings you use? Probably. But not because of top speed...
Once again, my rambling two cents... HR
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speed record
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On 10/31/2000 DT
wrote in from
(192.189.nnn.nnn)
I have to bring this up, because it goes against what everybody believes and says. and i like hearing how people react.
When Gary Hardwick set the speed record he was riding a set of 1-2 year old dirty swiss bones that had never been cleaned or re-lubed. Speed is a result of aerodynamics, bearings are just a tool to help you go faster, but play a very small role in the big picture.
Its the industry that says you need to pay $40 for bearings or over $100 for ceramics - During the speed record contest most of the riders were on ceramic bearings and they were ALL slower!
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shock to bearings
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On 10/31/2000 shnitzel
wrote in from
(24.65.nnn.nnn)
i agree about the bearing abuse issue. shock to a very round object is going to slightly defect it. shock to a lesser bearing is going to defect it as well. this is where the #'s mean nothing as far as i'm concerned. to me the roundness of the bearing is almost neglegable. more importantly is the quality of the steel and lubricant. it doesn't matter how round your bearings are if they can't stand up for more than 2 runs on the dirty rough barrett junction road. dirt IS going to enter the bearing by the end of the day. so i suggest instead of looking for a bearing marked VERY round, talk to a skater who has been running the same bearings for 10 years and ask them why.
my next issue is lubricant. lubricant while keeping the bearing rust free and lubricated, it also provides the majority of the bearings friction (unless you run rubber sheilds, metal don't touch the inner race at all). compare a greased bearing to a nicely oiled one.
here is my suggestion (and i almost wish the ski hills weren't opening this month......... not) take a bearing that lasts forever 'cause it's built with proven steel, clean it right out and put the slightest bit of the finest lube out there. now this isn't a bearing that will last as long as a greased one but if it is cleaned regularly i bet it's as good or better than any bearing on the market....
did i mention germans???......
shnitzel
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bearing info
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On 10/31/2000
DT
wrote in from
(24.4.nnn.nnn)
Kurt,
Did you get all your info off the minature bearings FAQ? are you related with them?
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Rain Riding
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On 10/31/2000
DT
wrote in from
(24.4.nnn.nnn)
This last weekend i went to the wlac with intentions of it raining, so i could go do some slides in the rain. I have a set of Boss china 3s that have metal shields (i think theyre sealed - i'm not sure) and they still are spinning fine. i'll let everyone know how they run, hopefully they wont rust.
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kurt's science
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On 10/31/2000
roger
wrote in from
(32.100.nnn.nnn)
Kurt,
Please share with us the equations you use for the calculations that you provided. Otherwise your "calculations" are just another anonymous dribble, attempting to appear scientific but failing to provide any basis for their conclusions.
Prove me wrong.
Roger
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