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| Q&A: Slalom Pro Mike Maysey (2489 Posts)
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Mike/Snake Road
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On 10/13/2005
Cliff Coleman
wrote in from
United States
(68.127.nnn.nnn)
Mike,
I went to Snake with a friend to skate the other day. The lift driver for us was none other than Mr. Rudy Esquer himself! You say who's Rudy Esquer? He won the 1965 Northern California Skateboard Championships. Clay Wheel Days! You have often said you might make a trip to the Bay area again. If you do, Sully, myself and others would love to ride Snake and the other hills with you. Come on up and visit.
Cliff Coleman
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Camera effects
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On 10/13/2005 EBasil
wrote in from
United States
(63.206.nnn.nnn)
That photo makes it look even tighter than 6'...with me guessing the board is 27-28", but I realize the camera eye can play tricks on us. Six feet is still crazy-tight, isnt' it?
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EBasil
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On 10/13/2005
mike maysey
wrote in from
(72.129.nnn.nnn)
I couldn't tell ya...probably about 6'
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Got Tights?
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On 10/10/2005 EBasil
wrote in from
United States
(63.206.nnn.nnn)
Man, that looks really tight! What's the cone spacing in that photo?
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Thanks Tway
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On 10/7/2005 Reggie
wrote in from
Canada
(199.243.nnn.nnn)
I wanted to thank everybody for the great weekend at Jamaica Tway, TK, Joe
PSR and all the others. I had a really good time with you guys and it's feeling shared by all the frenchies. Saturday I was better at partying than at the race (DQ), but thanks Tway and other people who figured it would be nice to have a different on sunday, so everybody could have a good run and show what they got.
It was good to see again Marshall and Molly who improved a lot since the race in Ottawa and to meet Léo, we had a lot of fun. Congratulations to Claude for the firts place on sunday and to Jason who improved a lot too !!!
It was nice to meet you all and I expect to race with you again soon
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courses
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On 10/6/2005
john Gilmour
wrote in from
United States
(209.6.nnn.nnn)
How I got into TS.
I didn't have a massive hill. I didn't have a slalom board. I had a 1970's style freestyle baord. A 24inch fiberflex kicktail with Bennetts and Road Rider 4's.
So in retrospect a Freestyle board from back then made a pretty good TS board. It was easy to run sub 6 foot gates on that. I practiced a short course on 72nd st. in NYC. It wasn’t until later that I raced in Central Park on Cat Hill (Highway Hill). I also had a 28 Inch pro slalom deck- but I found it harder to pump and used the freestyle board instead, wondering where I could find a hill big enough for the 28inch deck.
Compared to today- skaters are pretty stuck. They can’t expect to learn how to pump on a current street deck. So the only available gear that will work for slalom is a longboard. The newer skater might not have the experience needed to run a steep GS hill. So the best course for them to use is A novice course- uh, Hybrid course. A course set on a a medium pitch hill so pumping is not as needed to get a good time and gates wide enough to make pumping difficult for Pros.
So Perhaps instead of Hybrid what we might want to have is longboard slalom. That worked very well for GBJ’s crew. Of all skateboard slalom scenes that have started since 2000 I have to give credit to GBJ’s scene which grew because a course was consistently set in the same place visible to traffic on a regular basis.
A lot of street skaters have a longboard in their quiver and feel comfortable enough freecarving on that – perhaps comfortable enough to go to a race with the idea of becoming a spectator if they feel too nervous to make a fool out of themselves on the first day. Scope the course….go home- set a similar one, practice to return and give it your best shot.
So with that in mind we should think about Gene’s experience as not be uncommon- and we should cater more to longboards.
TS really looks ridiculous to Gene to begin with- the gear is now so highly specialized – he would have no idea what to buy or how to dial it in.
The pro speeds now are so great it simply looks impossible.
So hybrid again is the only choice for Gene. He can run it on a longboard in the longboard class- which I think should become MANDATORY in all our races. It could be single track and take only an hour to complete.
But pumping….that is easier to learn on a a TS deck. Should we have a set up specifically made for people to pump- that could be used in a IROC type of race where everyone uses the same gear?
Should every pocket of slalom have 4-5 of these decks for people to use and they get passed onto new people?
IF…………
a dual course has a some people DQ’ing. Say about 1/3 of the people during qualifying,
>>> I say switch to single track, leaving one course open free running for practice and another open for times. Give everyone 3 runs to get a time and let them take those runs in the order they line up. Let some cooperative learning occur.
As the time starts to wind down for the jam session- more people are trying to post times on the course with the timer. And people have more time to run the practice course in a frantic rush to get it wired and post a time- Sounds killer to me- very exciting…fast paced- it’s racing.
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definitions
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On 10/6/2005
6
wrote in from
United States
(68.114.nnn.nnn)
bank slolam - slolam you can take to the bank
$$$$$$
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tway
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On 10/6/2005 13
wrote in from
(72.43.nnn.nnn)
I love ya man...no worries. Get a new camera!!!!
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TS/BS
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On 10/6/2005 tway
wrote in from
(69.120.nnn.nnn)
13,
My apologies. I guess I misread your post. It sounded like you were a little bitter about the course setting…especially on Sunday. I was bummed nearly a dozen farmers DQ'd on Sat. so I wanted to make sure they all had a good time on Sun. Of course I know you had a great summer and I appreciate all your help very much. I can't wait for next season. We'll get the newbie’s racing' TS faster than JG.
Also, my video camera broke last night and I have no way to transfer the finale video to my HD which has put me a bit on edge. I did look at the new HD cameras last night and the price has dropped more than a K in the last 6 months.
Hopefully we can head back to Stratton this winter and race our Madds.
See you soon,
Tway
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ummm, tway....
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On 10/6/2005
ur13
wrote in from
(72.43.nnn.nnn)
Dude.....my laissez-faire attitude? Huh? I can't even count how many cones I picked up or held up this summer at the farm series. How many times someone new asked me something. How I adjusted someone's feet or gave some advice, etc etc. How on the early races I ran the timer (as we all did). How last weekend I had a large part in setting both courses Sunday, as I did at the early races. I might not be as vocal nor looking for praise or a medal but I'm out there helping those who want it with whatever I can offer....
I loved the Farm series. I told you this many times over the summer that it reminded me of the way racing was 5 years ago. Just everyone out having a good time. I'm stoked to see all the new blood showing up to each race. You along with Joe, PSR and TK did a wonderful this summer and I'm stoked for you guys. I look forward to next season and the next series. Not to mention what you ahve been doing with the farm for the past 5 years.
However don't give me that s#@! you posted below. If anything the courses at the farm series got easier as the summer went on. Yes the crowds grew and more newbies showed up...but also everyone who was there all summer stepped up. Kids who were having issues making tighter sections of those early course were killing it last weekend. People really stepped up all summer and what was so cool was seeing the returning people that were new at the race before showing up again with their own gear and really going for it.
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The 3 Basics
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On 10/5/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Gene makes an excellent point. Stating the intent of the event is always a good idea. List the course types, and then all we need are definitions of the course types and we have a pretty good idea of what to expect. PayPal your entry fees, Google Map the hill and pack your bags.
Here is my "minimalist" concept of what I think the 3 basic flavors of slalom are:
GS is about maintaing good roll speed by setting a nice line through loose and wide cones on a steep hill.
HS is about pumping as fast as you can to accelerate through a combination of medium-tight and medium-loose cones.
TS is about trying to go fast while avoid hitting the tightly spaced cones.
It's difficult to distill an entire discipline into a single sentence, and of course there is more to it then that. You always want to set a good line, accelerate, and avoid the cones. My experience is that the new guys experience the following:
The GS is easy to make the turns, but it's not always easy to check their speed. If it's not too scary-fast, it's fun. The pros make it look easy. The newbies see a chance to improve, even if they only have a longboard.
The HS is challenging and fun. The pros don't make it look any easier, they just blister the course and show how fast slalom can be. The newbies see a chance to improve, but it may be time to get a "real" slalom board.
The TS is just too damn hard and there not as much fun. Only a few pros make it look easy. Not only would it take a lot of practice, but it may require a second (specialty) board. Some will be motivated to rise above, but others will wait and see how it goes once they've ridden their "real" board.
When enough of the pros have their chops down, TS will be qhole lot more attractive to the newbies. In the mean time, it doesn't make sense for the pros to turn their noses up at the very courses that are the most attractive to the newbies. Find a way to make HS interesting, and keep the newbies coming back for more.
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GS the newbie
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On 10/5/2005 Gene Sato
wrote in from
United States
(69.0.nnn.nnn)
I just started slaloming this year, participating in two Farm races in the area. It seems like a lot of veterans have a lot to say about TS vs GS vs HS and associated vernacular. It's really interesting to read. But I hadn't read any posts from a beginner like me, so here's my take on this stuff.
Nomenclature aside, it seems important for the race promoter to understand clearly their own goals for the race, whether it be promotion of the sport to newbies or big media/big money/big glory super difficult over-the-topness with hot conehead girls and the world's best riders, or some expert-level course that requires plenty of training and practice. It also would be good for the promoter to inform the racers of this goal. After that, everyone should know what they're getting into, regardless of differences in terminology.
About getting more people into slaloming - What got me to go to my first race was the msg that the event was casual and the course would be long board friendly (ie no specialized equipment). I showed up with a pool board, and was prepared to race with that. Although I now have an entry-level slalom setup, my commitment to slaloming is not so great that I would spend the money for a different setup for each slalom discipline. Nor would I be interested in participating in a race that required more specialized equipment. Based on the preceding discussion of course types, then, a true TS course would not be so enjoyable for me.
Finally, based on the two outlaw events I went to, it does seem like all the times start to cluster together if the course is too easy. That reduces the competiveness of the race. (Which is either good or bad, depending on what you want your race to be)
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what it is
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On 10/5/2005
john Gilmour
wrote in from
United States
(209.6.nnn.nnn)
Hybrid is to skateboard slalom as
Nastar is to Snowboard slalom.
Nastar is an easy course that anyone can make on any gear designed to make racing newbie friendly- you even have to pay to play.
Now don't get down on NASTAR.
I do it at least once a year just to see if I can get a gold medal and the invite for the finals every year. Do I ever go? No....it is beginner slalom- and I'm just happy to post a good time in the local race.
Hybrid for me is easy and has given me good results. But the rush I get is not from the course- like in GS or a good TS. The rush only comes from having to race the person in the other course..
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What course should Newbies run?
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On 10/5/2005
john Gilmour
wrote in from
United States
(209.6.nnn.nnn)
You should have good pavement for a TS- without it- you really can't set much or have great angulation- good braking- or much speed.
But with a great surface you can set TS on a really steep hill, and toss ina few gaps so people of varying ability levels can check their speed.
I'm not talking huge gaps- just a few larger gaps like hybrid or a GS gate or two for riders to adjust.
Hybrid however is the slalom discipline for novices. And that is OKAY. Just like in Snowboarding it is easier to run a wide open GS than a slalom. In Snowboarding not all racers race Slalom. Almost all racers race GS and its varients. Only in later years do racers try their hand at tighter gates. It's hard and snowboarders who run the slalom generally earned it and earn teh respect of their fellow racers for giving it a shot.
For snowboarders Slalom is something some racers aspire to because they can pit themselves against another opponent and be right next to the the whole way down. It's for seasoned racers who really know how to pump the ruts to gain speed. In some snowboard slaloms the times get quicker from the top guys as the course gets rutted more and more and the times of the less seasoned snowbaord slalomers suffer in later rounds from the ruts.
Why?
Because the rutted course requires a more advanced skill set and better timing. It's for a lack of a better word- more technical. And to watch really good racers on snowbaords jet a rutted course in person is a pretty cool sight to watch. Most spectators couldn't imagine being able to run that course because not only is it going left and right, but it going up and down. It's becoming a banked slalom. As the ruts get deeper in some larger contests- the lesser skiled racers (and sometimes a few skilled ones) get pitched from the course into DQ.
We don't have this natural weeding out in big races. So all we can do is make a course a little faster and tech from the start of pro class. Remember, i haven't skated more than 6 runs in 2 years- I'm not gaining anything by this arguement excelt a more entertaining seat from teh sidelines and the opportunity for better commentary and the enjoyment from watching the TS racers actually get it.
It was pretty cool watching Vlad race in paris- or Stepanek race the Farm 2.0 on a tech course. It showed they had practiced and pushed hte limits. It's skating.
Hacket is right when he says that you have to introduce kids to slalom racing through the parks if the kids are only park skaters. I think the conversion of longboarder to slalomer is easier by a factor of 10- but it would be cool to get some park skaters into it.
What does interest me is that McCree loves TS and yet why hasn't he pushed the discipline a bit more. how about offering the most cash for TS? You want to see skaters get better in all disciplines faster- offer the most cash for TS. It is rare to see a skater progress quickly focusing on GS first.
So how can we reduce TS cone carnage? Should there be a standardized course for qualifying for a TS? Or anyway to qualify a skater for TS. Marathons have people qualify by time on known courses. What if you ahd a permenently marked course at each slalom venue- and if you can below a certain time...you are in. That would greatly reduce the cone carnage.
You could also charge an additional fee for the TS.
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BHS
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On 10/5/2005 tway
wrote in from
(69.120.nnn.nnn)
Come on 13. Each outlaw race was not even close to the same crowd. Our last dam race had at least 10 new racers (probably more) racing for the first time. You can't expect them to race even a partially tech course. Especially w/o coneheads. If they did, they’d certainly leave with a bad taste in their mouth and probably not return. To filter TS into the Grass Roots scene...we need you to drop your laissez-faire attitude and step up and help out more. We'd certainly have a better shot at running more TS courses. Next year I encourage you to set several courses, pat a few kids on the back and give them some of your valuable TS insight…just like JG did for both of us. The experienced racers should be running the race, cone heading and coaching. I'll certainly try to improve on this next year so we can have more tech. courses. TS is, and has always been, my favorite discipline...I accredit this to JG.
Anyway, the trouble is everyone has their own idea/opinion of what a TS course is. Maybe this is why we set so many BHS courses this year. (Bland Hybrid Slalom)
Next year will be better. I promise.
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More Chief, less queef
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On 10/5/2005 Chief Red Beef
wrote in from
United States
(24.185.nnn.nnn)
Chaput...you just made the list buddy.
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whoa...
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On 10/5/2005
mike maysey
wrote in from
United States
(66.214.nnn.nnn)
keep it going...
how about standard slalom? It just might be generic enough....maybe?
carry on...
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More TS, Less Red Beef
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On 10/5/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
I don't agree that it takes a bunch of interested people to make it happen. Often times, "If you build it, they will come". I haven't liked TS in the past, mostly because it would require me to actually get off my lazy ass, and actually do something. Something like practice. Something like putting together a small board with a small wheelbase. Something like getting together with guys who routinely set up and run Tight courses. Because I'm not any good at it, it hasn't been fun. So I've been about as motivated to do Tight as most men are about making a feather boa, learning some dance moves and hooking up with the Village People.
Set up some scaffolding and a ramp that goes from atop the Huntington Beach Pier and down into the crowds in the sand at the a surf/skate festival and offer $10,000 in prize money to the top 10, and I'll set up a couple of nice decks and wiggle like separated lizard tail. And I won't be alone. And maybe, just maybe, since I had to go out and get good at running TS courses, I'll end up liking Tight Slalom. And if this happens to enough guys, it won't be difficult at all to find people, places and hills to run TS races on. I usually like the things that I am good at. If I like Tight Slalom, it would find it be the easiest form of skate-racing to promote. It's been real easy for me to not like TS. What is my incentive to like it? Money? Fame? Fun? No, no, and no. But dangle a carrot out in front of me and it's on.
Speaking of shifting interests. Are we really going to live in a world without Hybrid? Are our choices really going to only be Tight Slalom and Giant Slalom. Lord knows that Super Tight is going to have to wait for TS to gain popularity, and that a Super G is probably just going to be a real GS, so what's going to be in between? Nothing? If we can't find a way to make a Hybrid course interesting, we're in trouble. Fat chicks and anorexics shouldn't be the only things on the menu. I guess that I didn't get the memo. When did Hybrid become such a bad thing?
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Yo Cheif
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On 10/5/2005
ur13
wrote in from
(72.43.nnn.nnn)
I agree on the pavement issue but I know we have seen a few spots that could have had a killer TS that instead got a bland "hybrid"....
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Tite
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On 10/5/2005 Chief Red Beef
wrote in from
United States
(24.185.nnn.nnn)
Enough about tight already.
If more than a few people wanted to do it then it would get done.
Also, consider this: For a good TS you HAVE to have NICE PAVEMENT.
I have'nt been to a competition yet (granted I have'nt been to that many), that had a surface that could support a good TS.
NO one wants to run tight on S&*y pavement.
That reason alone is why I believe we have'nt seen much TS in competition.
By the way, Cornilia, the Radar Girl????.....BAM! Now, that's what I'm talkin' bout.
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John's On Meds
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On 10/5/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
"Novice" is a horrible word and would never be accepted. There's no need to put the word "Am" or "Pro" in front of a course description. Am and Pro are divisions, not courses. Could the TS or HS or GS course in the Ams be different than the Pros? Absolutely. And they could still both be within the definitions of the course type. The biggest difference between the two would most likely be the amount of offset, and/or the spacings.
Adding only the word "Slalom" to the disciplines that Hackett listed, you get:
Super Tight Slalom (STS)
Tight Slalom (TS)
Slalom Slalom (SS)
Giant Slalom (GS)
Super Giant Slalom (SGS)
Cyber Slalom (CS)
It seems pretty obvious that "Slalom Slalom" should be replaced by "Hybrid Slalom" and not by "Just Slalom", "Novice Slalom", or "Slalom". Unless, of course, you can find a better word.
We may need to have that many definitions, but we don't have to run all of these races at every event. I'd be happy with a TS, HS and GS, or a TS, HS and SGS at most races.
I fully understand that HS is generally easier that TS, and less scary than GS, but the point of racing isn't just to make courses difficult to run. It's not just to challenge oneself. It's to beat your opponents. That's what a race is. Otherwise it's just called practice. When there is good Hybris course set, the challenge doesn't come from merely avoiding the cones. It comes from finishing the course faster than other highly skilled racers. I remember GBJ's twin dragons at the Park'n'Ride a few years ago. Everyone was breathing hard from all of the energy that it took to accelerate through the cones. Athleticism paid off, as did skill, timing, rythm, etc. Just because the course is easy to run at lower speeds for the beginners doesn't mean that it's a bad course for advanced riders.
If the whole poit of Slalom is to set courses that are difficult to make, we may as well throw in a bunch of stupid, speed-scrubbing offsets and 5 foot spacings into all of our otherwise fast courses.
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RE: Hackett TS, HS, GS, or BS!
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On 10/5/2005 billbee
wrote in from
United States
(66.214.nnn.nnn)
Now yer' talkin'....I'm holdin' out for the action figures. Collect 'em all!
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TS
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On 10/5/2005
ur13
wrote in from
(72.43.nnn.nnn)
JG's courses were my introduction to slalom. Sorta learning under fire if you will. I got away from them for a few years and my skill level dropped (and everyone elses went up). However I've been practicing JG style TS course lately and already feel alot of my former "skill" (if you can call it that) coming back to me.
It was said earlier but a good TS course, a real TS course, sharpens all of your slalom skillset. It isn't any harder than a HS or GS, each has it's own points to be aware of...but it does take alot of concentration to stay "in course" in your head on a TS. There isn't much time to rest and when things go wrong you are screwed. Where-as in a GS if your line becomes late the chances of fixing it are much better.
The kicker is this. I noticed this summer in the few races I was at, mostly grass roots style, that the course setting was rather laissez-faire. Pretty straight forward courses that had little technical about them, and those cones that were kinda tech were jsut easier (and faster) to criddle from the inside. Now at a grass roots race the goal is to be inclusive, I know. Let the newbies be able to make the course and have fun, etc etc. However after 3 or 4 races of the same crowd, the same newbies, one can begin to set more challenging courses. You don't need to jump right into super-tech TS...but you can begin to set courses with parts of that. If you can't make the course, practice more....being pushed and challenged is how you advance. Not running the same courses that you can make clean every single time with little effort.
At the top level "Pro" races the courses should be bloody difficult. If the racers are popcorning the course...well they aren't "pros" now are they. Racers at that level should be able to step up to the challenge of what is put in front of them. Mike's point about practicing courses much much harder than what you will race is right on. I will agree watching a "pro" race where tons of cones are flying can look lame to the uniformed....but the otherside is that maybe people should practice harder courses.
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