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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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bass ackwards
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On 6/8/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
AW FOOEY!
i'm such a freakin' idiot!
it IS backwards. and i can't even use the excuse that it's a mirror image...
i mounted it, took pics, rode it, and realized it was wrong. then i remounted it, and took more pics, then posted the wrong pic. Doh!
Obviously, i've got a thing or two to learn about efficiency of motion, both on and off the board. :)
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backward truck
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On 6/8/2006 hc
wrote in from
United States
(168.149.nnn.nnn)
i think its backward, no?
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Richy Carrasco...
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On 6/8/2006
Geezer-X
wrote in from
United States
(65.127.nnn.nnn)
Has a MONSTER pump.
http://www.sk8kings.com/new/video/RichyCarrascoSlalomRacing.htm
To answer some questions, regarding "swing" vs. "twist", in slalom the prevailing pump form (which granted, combines a racing line around cones with generating power OR braking)uses the entire body and board setup. Watch Richy in action and it'll be immediately apparent.
The "twist" essentially is pushing the nose one way and tail the other. With a lot of steering in both ends, it generates power.
At a slalom event that used to be held in MD, The Gathering, the last day used to end with the uphill pump race. There was a loop road, maybe a 1/3 of a mile around. We'd start at the high point, bomb the downhill, and as speed tapered off, would start pumping to build as much speed as possible on the flat. The road would gradually transition from flat to up hill, and the big, arm-y, swinging power pump style would devolve to the "anything that can make me go" style. It's really hard to configure a setup that can generate useful boost both at 25 mph and at 2 mph.
It turned out that a tiny, flat 70's deck with about a 16" wheelbase and a ton of front steer usually worked where it mattered, which was ekeing out another agonizing 10' at the end when everyone was *really* struggling.
I've done some flatland pumping for fun on a local bike path, and I usually ride an insect deck that's about 34" with the trucks all the way at the ends. I use a PVD rear and an RTX or Indy front. It's my regular GS racing setup with more steering. I use the biggest wheels I can get under it on my best bearings. Usually Oust 7s.
I do a ton of 8mm axle conversions on trucks for slalom racers who are looking for grip, but serious pumpers would benefit from the reduced drag the better alignment provides. Reducing rolling resistance is huge while flatland pumping.
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Push vs Pull
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On 6/8/2006 Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
In my recent experiments with my new pavedwave deck I am observing that a lot of my pump technique has centred around creating linked turns that cause the wheels to pull the board forward. It would seem that the board is being wiggled at various speeds by the legs to create this wheel pulling effect.
On re-reading Dan Gesmer's description of pumping I realized that in talking about weighting and unweighting and referring to the circular motion of the abdomen driving the pump rather than the power of the legs he was explaining how this created a centrifugal force that resulted in the board being pushed (rather than pulled).
I tried this method more pointedly than I had before and found that though it seemed to be working for me it didn't feel as intuitive as powering the turns with my legs. Perhaps it is inexperience or a lack of required strength but the variety of deck manipulations that led to the board moving forward seem easier to me than the weighting/unweighting method that Dan uses.
On an incline I prefer the quick deck wiggle that James refers to and Geezer also mentions in order to generate speed and go up hill. I definitely use my legs and feet to power this movement. For longer sustained higher speed flats I prefer mixing the circular motion with a figure 8 type motion that Derek talked about in his post below. But again these movements often seem to be generated more from the legs and not so much from the abdomen.
As for arm movements it seems that there is a variety of motions that can assist the pump from the close-in quick movements during the uphill "wiggle' to the wider slalom type swings for long pumps and higher speeds.
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new CX vs old CX
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On 6/8/2006 Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
I recently mounted a new set of CX's on my new pavedwave board. The new trucks have a more shiny finish and sit on a similarly shiny silver baseplate rather than the former black baseplate. Generally these trucks function in the same way as the older model however I was noticing that I couldn't get the hanger as loose as on the other version. Is it possible that the new Carver CX's are using a shorter kingpin? Anyone else noticed this difference?
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CX?
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On 6/8/2006 G7enn
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(80.229.nnn.nnn)
I did wonder if it was the new Carver but I thought they were 'just' a standard truck with the axle moved back several inches to give a cheaper version of the tippy feel you get from the old complex Carvers (the only ones i've tried). Surely the Pivot is still towards the nose of the board. That photo really looks like an Indy or similar mounted backwards. I can even see the reflection of the bushings in the shiny deck...
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zogs wild fatboy
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On 6/8/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Before your images fall off the 'front page' Zogs, thats one sick lookin' little kokopelli pumper, one of the most rad paint jobs I've seen yet! with the double split-fires no less... got some ride impressions soon i hope!
and G7enn thats an often and understandably asked question about the carverCX, its mounted right! on their latest models they even burn a directional arrow/note into the hangar so that people mount them correctly. got more pics of those here
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g-x pump tech's
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On 6/8/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
yeah, I feel that I'm always switching between the two pumps or something like it, where swinging's best for acceleration or long, deep pumps that maintain a fast clip. I think its why my slalom buddies have an initial impression that distance stuff is kinda nuts or requires marathon stamina, because they can't imagine keeping that kind of pump up (and I can't either!)
That's where I've found switching between that, and centering more over the rear and steering with the nose a.k.a. the "deck wiggle / twist" comes in handy for maintaining an already fast momentum with less physical investment. The other thing I like with that pump is pouring a lot of energy into the rear for charging up a hill. Geezer -- its cool to hear your last comment about the slalomers milestone, I learned so much last winter isolating pump technique with cyber. it doesn't hold up to the adrenaline of screaming down a hill, but it sure gets your head wrapped around this stuff!
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Speedvent photo
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On 6/8/2006 G7enn
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(80.229.nnn.nnn)
Is that truck on backwards or is there more to these pumping specific setups than I realised?...
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technique
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On 6/8/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
hey geezer-
thanks for the insights there! dividing technique into categories of twisting and swinging is a great way to look at it. i can totally see what you mean there. i'm looking forward to getting out for a ride and exploring those ideas.
i've been thinking of the two approaches in terms of having a single pivot point or a double pivot point, or as moving the body in a circular motion vs. figure 8's. it's helpful to me to find new ways to define this stuff. one of the things i like about your idea is that it gives a clear and simple visual to check in with on a ride.
thanks again!
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pump technique questions
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On 6/7/2006 Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(142.22.nnn.nnn)
Gezzer X, thanks for your comments about the styles of pumping. Given that as a newb pumper I am in the twist camp, I would appreciate a little more explanation about what you describe as the swing (sounding like dance class here ;-) ).
In terms of incorporating the whole body in the pump motion would you also say that more of the board is used as well? In other words, the whole board is pumped rather than just the front of the deck being wiggled in quick motions?
And when you describe the swing style as using arm motion what exactly do you mean by that? Is it a wide motion that lends momentum and power to the pump that you are referring to?
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Pumping form
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On 6/7/2006
Geezer-X
wrote in from
United States
(63.138.nnn.nnn)
I've been following the growing attention to pumping as a viable means for covering distance. In the late 70's I traveled around town on slalom boards pushing and jogging (before it was "skogging") and pumping.
I just watched the video clip a few posts down, and feel compelled to comment. Primarily, pumping style can fall into 2 camps: the "twist" and the "swing".
The twist uses a lot of front steer, and can generate a little power even at very slow speeds. If you're trying to pump to speed from zero, or pump up a steep hill, it feels natural and it works.
The swing (for lack of a better term) uses the whole body, particularly the arms, and works best on a stiffer board with less steering. It's cabable of much higher speeds, as each "stroke" covers much more ground.
Have a look at some slalom videos. Kenny Mollica probably still has all his race videos from 2001-2005 for sale, and they're a master class in how to pump effectively. Learn both ways. having watched many slalom newbies progress in talent, it's always a milestone when they abandon the twist and start using their whole body for propulsion.
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speedvents - how heavy?
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On 6/7/2006 Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(142.22.nnn.nnn)
Hey Derek, how do the Speed Vents compare in weight to the Avilas? I am thinking that given the design of their core the SV's are likely to be significantly lighter than their older cousins the monster Avilas.
Nice wedging btw.
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speed vents here I come!
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On 6/7/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(142.22.nnn.nnn)
Ohhhhh sweet Derek, thanks for posting about the new wheels - photo and all. Looking good! I simply can not resist the idea of an even faster wheel. I was liking the pink gummies even more than my Avilas and was contemplating getting a second set but oooooo la la, I think now it will have to be speed vents for me!
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speedvents
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On 6/7/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
OOO LA LA!!!
those speedvents are freakin' fast! i bought the softest ones- 75a i believe, and i'm thinking that these things might be magic or something. i was convinced my watch was broken or the mile markers were moved on the trail, because today's ride was way too smooth, and without any additional effort. even into a pretty good headwind, the pace on these things was consistently quick. on the flats, my average speed was between 5-10% faster than anything i've ever done on a 10+ mile ride, and the uphills today felt easier than they have all year. these babies are my new best friends :)
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centennial pix
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On 6/5/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
 smooove asphalt
 yep, it don't git much more rural than this!
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LDP trippin'
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On 6/5/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Erin, I'd take a setup for sure! ...just take the softest wheels for any terrain, dissassemble trucks and all into your check-in baggage - skate tools and hardware can sometimes get confiscated when they're in carry-on. At the very least you could loosen the bushings for parking lot surfing, and at best you might find some great trails!  LUCKY!
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have ldp'er will travel
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On 6/5/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
I've got a couple of trips planned for this summer and I am wondering whether it would be suitable to take along a ldp board.
First two weeks in Maui (a winter trip that had to be postponed, long story) and then three weeks in the Lakes District of England. I have no idea whether the roads, sidewalks or bikepaths in these places would be work for flatland pumping.
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centennial annual ??
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On 6/2/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Erin, great vid! you captured the feel of that trail and that day -- you're a hill climber! I'm still buzzin from that ride. Thats gotta be an annual, memorial day event, and that trail's gonna be a monthly gig for me from now on. The rolling hills were amazing, especially the 4 miles up, then the 5 miles gradually DOWN, and that was only the top half of the trail. A snowboarder's dream -- without the lift tickets.
A biker friend shot me this 'wayfaring' site to geek out on, its really cool but I'm just getting started-- for mapping out distance courses you've boarded, or ones you're planning on. I added a route I'm gonna testride from the Burke up to the Centennial trailhead. It might be suicide as I'm not sure what riding the SR-9 shoulder is like (probably illegal) http://www.wayfaring.com/users/show/14782
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centennial trail ride
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On 6/2/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
erin ROCKS!
you should have seen her nailing the inclines like they were nothin', and smiling the entire time...
nice job on the video sista! that ride was a blast.
we gotta do this ride again, and with more people. that trail is dreamy.
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"A Paved Wave Kind'a Day"
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On 6/1/2006
ninefeet
wrote in from
France
(212.234.nnn.nnn)
NICE VID !!!!
Are going up the hill??
Nice boards to...
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"A Paved Wave Kind'a Day"
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On 6/1/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
http://media.putfile.com/A-Pavedwave-kinda-Day-95
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Zogs
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On 5/31/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Zogs,
diggin the artwork man, I really like that fatboy, flames are cool.
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U.B's RII's and stuff.
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On 5/31/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Hey Tarin,
we are way down south in west sussex, right next to Gatwick, we were in north Devon (woolacombe) only a month or so ago.
I think me and the CX just haven't had enough time to get properly aquainted.
I've been spending alot of time on the Tracker RTX/RTS's and just have never set the CX up to my liking? I'm sure in time i'll get it, just lately my skate time has been few and far between, so i've gone with a setup i know works.
As for the Randals, i brought a bulk load a while back when i was selling set ups on e-bay, the base plate holes were all over the place, then a little while ago, i got some Randal downhills to use the hangers for Skumping, but when it came to fit the rear one as they come, i couldn't get the bolts through the holes let alone line them up with the ones i'd drilled in the deck, i was told this is due to making a cast from a truck that was made from a cast before.........you get it i'm sure?!!!
Those UB's are 'Urban Blue', you must have seen them down Devon, the seem to be anywhere you can buy a micro scooter, kites and stuff with Devon writen on?
Its a shame they seem to have a bit of a bad rep, but the trucks are a great RII copy, i think it might be because the do so many other lines, so are not seen as a longboard company (sorry if this offends anyone from Urban Blue, its just how i've interpreted it).
Click here for link
This is their longboard site, they are a part of Click here for link R&J sports ltd.
And they are U.K. based, so you would think we would be able to get better prices, but it doesn't seem much different than buying U.S.?
On a similar note, did everyone see the review on all the trucks like Randals, that are now on the market from everywhere but the U.S.? I downloaded the pdf if anyone wants it, its from the fish, i'm not on there much so i'm probly well late in finding it?
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replies
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On 5/31/2006
tarin
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(82.152.nnn.nnn)
derek-
so you're using the randal 150s for your everyday pumping, and cx's for special occasions now?
erin-
the distances some of you guys do are insane. i dont think i've pumped any further than 5 miles so far. i dont know if it's my technique, my c7 set-up, or the gritty and somewhat hilly terrain i've usually been on thats made me not want to go much further.. but im moving at the moment (sitting on a train writing this actually) and hopefully, will get the money together to get some cx's soon so i should have this figured out shortly.
munchh-
i'd been living in fort william, in the north of scotland, and have had to get my skating things from the states. a friend brought a deck over when she came to visit early this year, and i've since gotten a replacement c7 front from daddiesboardshop.. the shipping came to about 10 pounds. whereabouts in britain are you? im in devon at the moment, but am moving to copenhagen and will be there within the week.. and am looking forward to pumping on their smooth, smooth bike paths.
thanks for the link to your man and your set-up page.. i've seen the latter before, linked in from pavedwave if i remember correctly.
redrill the bolt holes.. you need to redrill bolt holes with randals? and what problems have you had with the cx's?
james-
hiya.. i've been linked to the ncdsa forums ever since i began googling longboarding and pumping i thought i should finally drop in myself!
the first part to ever break was one of the washers around the main kingpin, it just crunched like granola when i put a wee bit of pressure on. then the next two things went together: the fat coil you're referring to, as well as the piece that goes on the horizontal kingpin right behind the spring, that the hangar hooks into. the stainless steel part that's bent at a 90 degree angle that sits up against the spring. i'll post a picture.
then that part (but not the spring) broke again on my replacement! after only a few weeks.
do cx's have anything easily breakable like that in them?
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How to Pump