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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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distance vs slalom
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On 6/27/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
hey PMG-
james peters probably has some good stuff to offer here, since he's done extensive training both in slalom and in LDP. but here's my take...
long distance training builds your body's ability to process energy efficiently, while sprinting builds your power. you can see this if you look at the different body types of bulky sprinters vs. scrawny marathoners.
if you do a lot of distance training, your quickness typically tends to decline and your ability to jump is affected. those springy muscles come in handy in stuff like slalom. i would think that it's fine to do a bit of both disciplines from time to time, but if you are set on training for a specific event, the bulk of your time would be best spent focused on that.
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97 km!?!?!
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On 6/27/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
hey ravn-
not only do you get the world cup, but a big smooth bike trail as well... sounds like a dream ride you are going on this afternoon. looking forward to hearing how that ride goes!
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Re: Derek & Marc
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On 6/26/2006
Ravn
wrote in from
Germany
(195.37.nnn.nnn)
Thanks derek,
I guess the Tierney is rather heavy when you compare it to a Roe - plus it has got a rather wide tail, adding extra weight in the back. That could be a reason why it does not really feel unstable with that stance.
But I will have the opportunity to do a little more experimenting today.. there's an inline skate marathon track (up to 97km of dead flat butter smooth asphalt - woo!) in the area which I will pay a visit to in the afternoon. I have been riding a lot across town and on bike trails where the tarmac/pavement is not so great, and I guess that moving on a better surface will also allow for the faster gears (and stances) to work better. I wasn't able to cater for music yet, though - I probably got to hum a tune myself while riding..
@Marc: The trucks are in my gear box currently.. I have run out of bushings and have to order some more sometime.. Do you mean black bushing or black torsion ring? I've got a truck with these large bushing blocks and haven't found any information on available durometers on the tierney website or elsewhere.
I haven't pumped a lot on the Tierney yet.. but if it pumps, I will definitely try it. :)
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RE: Ravn
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On 6/26/2006
Marc
wrote in from
(71.231.nnn.nnn)
I am new to LDP as well. I have a little bit more experience in Slalom but not much there either. I found that with Slalom you place your feet in a way that faces your body forward, but in LDP I found it is better to stand sideways (like you would on a Tierney). I can get more powerful pumps out of it that way.
On another note, what did you put your tierney trucks on if they arent on the T-001? And, have you tried pumping the Tierney? It is fun with the black bushing.
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Marathon pumping vs. Sprint pumping?
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On 6/26/2006
PMG
wrote in from
United States
(198.151.nnn.nnn)
When I go out and pump not only am I doing it to keep in shape, but my main reason is to practice for slalom races. While it’s best to practice slalom using cones, I rarely set up cones when I am skating by myself because I am too lazy and it takes too much set-up time.
If I pump to practice for slalom races is it best to pump for long distances or would it be better to pump as fast as I can for short distances? Marathon pumping vs. Sprint pumping?
When I pump for long distances to build my stamina I try stay a relaxed and as loose as possible and use only the necessary energy required to keep myself moving forward.
If I am only looking to improve my racing skills which method should I use?
PMG
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form and footing
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On 6/26/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
hey ravn-
great to hear you're getting in some nice long rides!
i didn't even know there was such thing as slalom skating when i started doing LDP, and i still don't have as much experience in this discipline as i would like. the foot positions and the general motions in slalom have been discussed extensively, and i think there is a ton of stuff to be learned there. and with that said, i think there are many things unique to LDP that seperate it from slalom.
one of the main differences is the extent to which your form will vary during a given session, determined by whether you are going downhill or uphill, accelerating or maintaining speed... and because of that, your foot position and arm usage are going to vary extensively.
i used to ride quite a bit with my front foot positioned ahead of the front truck. it's a sacrifice of stability, but it provides a good easy gear where you can just drag the back of the board across the pavemement and accelerate with that friction. riding into a good headwind is one place where i still find this foot position to be helpful, but at higher speeds, it's too risky for me. when i moved back to the center of the board, i found that not only did i have more stability, but increased power, since i could now alternate my weight evenly on my front and back foot, and dig deeper with sharper, evenly balanced pumps.
(also... i can't remember if the teriney board is really heavy- is it? because that makes a big difference on where your feet are going to feel comfortable.)
with arm motions, the best thing i've found is to pump, relax my arms, and see what natural movements they fall into. from there, i exaggerate that motion a little bit, and bring it into my form. as far as i can tell, arm motions are helpful for raising your center of balance, and that comes in handy for acceleration and going up hills. But if you are just trying to maintain speed, arm motions can be a waste of energy. it seems to me that it's the same approach as speedskaters have when they use their arms.
have a great ride!
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groove
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On 6/26/2006
Ravn
wrote in from
Germany
(83.121.nnn.nnn)
Thanks a lot, Erin! Yes, that mp3 player should be the next thing on my wish list. I haven't had the chance to pump to music yet, and it sounds so good when you describe it. I am currently just enjoying the flow and finding out which movements go along with it. I am sure that if there's more groove, my arms will join in. ;)
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arm movements and stance
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On 6/26/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Hi Ravn, welcome to the ldp lounge.
Really cool to hear that you enjoy going distances on your lpd board.
Every time I go out for a pump sesh I discover something new which is the magic of this sport. Generally speaking, however, I have found that standing over the front truck is the optimum power postition for me. I prefer to use a toe stop so I don't have any surprises over time with my foot creeping too far up the nose of the board therefore I haven't experimented with a stance that puts my front foot ahead of the truck. I was interested in reading what you had to say about this. I know that Derek moves around a lot on his deck and doesn't use a toestop either so it will be interesting to hear what he has to say about stance as well.
There are times when I am just mellow that I might stand just a snitch behind the front truck but I agree with you that standing more towards the board's centre really reduces the efficiency of the pump.
As for arm movement, I am a big fan of it. But this seems to be a very personal thing as some of the other pumpers I skate with have less arm movement and are still very fast and efficient long distance pumpers.
Arm movement evolved for me when I started pumping whilst listening to my ipod. The tunes get me into dance mode and I tend to move on the board in relation to the beat of the music. Gradually I discovered various moves that lent power to my pump along with rhythm to the ride. And then of course sometimes I just throw in some moves just 'cause they feel good.
There are quite a few arm movements that I have found work well with pumping. James' shadow boxing style works especially well going up hills and for generating speed, longer swinging motions help retain fast grooves and alternating dancing type movements add energy to a long non stop flat and are also good if there's a tail wind.
For me pumping is about more than just fitness or travelling from A to B, but rather its about the feeling, the grooves and most of all the fun! To that end I tend to move on the board in whatever way feels good and puts a smile on my face.
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LDP foot placement
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On 6/26/2006
Ravn
wrote in from
Germany
(195.37.nnn.nnn)
Hi everybody,
As I haven't been posting much on ncdsa.com let me quickly introduce myself: I am Thomas (aka Ravn in most fora) from Berlin, Germany. Used to be a lot into downhill carving, but got hooked on LDP a while ago, doing mostly 10-30km tracks currently.
I currently run Carver CX front + rear truck on a Tierney rides deck.
http://relet.net/g2/main.php?g2_itemId=4967 <- deck photo
As you can see, I have no slalom pumping background, hence my question (coming real soon now):
While messing around with various foot positions on my board, I discovered that pumping is most effortless when my front foot is noticeably in front of my front truck. I do not have a toe stop that would prevent it, but a slightly upturned nose that eventually stops my foot way in front of the truck. The motion I am using to pump feels like what some of you have been describing as "walking on the spot". I do not use much arm motions, to "rock the child" or punch it, or anything similar.
The movement feels ok to me, and I can pump distances without problems. However I am wondering (and here the question finally arrives) - should I try to adopt some arm movements or another stance to.. I don't know - generate more power? Feel better? I am just confused because on most videos, people pump differently than I do, and stand more in the center of the board. Have you tried to stand in front of the truck yet?
I have tried to stand more to the rear with my feet.. pumping is still ok, but not that good. It works still at higher speeds, but changing cadences is more difficult then. I also tried if arm movements help, but I could not get the right feeling.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions you can make.
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truck width
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On 6/25/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Yes, that's right Tarin, the Holey is wider than the CX in the set up I am using. I was curious to see how a slightly wider truck in the rear would affect traction.
At this point I'm not sure I like the idea though as it feels like with the wider truck at the rear there is a greater tendency for the rear wheel to lift a little during some parts of the pump phase.
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cx front and holey back?
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On 6/25/2006
tarin
wrote in from
Denmark
(82.143.nnn.nnn)
erin,
arent your trucks different widths? how is that working for you?
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stoked!
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On 6/25/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Just got back from a 25 km skate - I'm stoked. Been pumping the 'piper with my pink gummies, CX front, Holey rear - this set up rocks!
Sun's out and everyone's out there having fun. It feels like summer has just hit Vancouver.
Ok, gotta go put some more silicone lube on those loudboy bushings then take off for more skating. bye
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n-less repetitio
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On 6/25/2006
tarin
wrote in from
Denmark
(80.198.nnn.nnn)
'doing it til you get it right' works for me too.
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endless richness
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On 6/24/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
"The discovery of endless richness in subtle variation on familiar themes."
That really captures the essence of ldp for me. Thanks for posting Evans.
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repetition
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On 6/24/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
right on evans!
that's a quote from aikido master george leonard, in his book "mastery," yeah?
there are an infinite number of ways to express yourself on a longboard, and every one of them is valid. slalom, skogging, vert, downhill, ldp, or cruising for 2000 miles- why is it necessary to suggest that one experience is better than the other? it's not better, it's different.
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Repetition
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On 6/24/2006
Evans
wrote in from
United States
(66.214.nnn.nnn)
The essence of boredom is to be found in the obsessive search for novelty.
Satisfaction lies in mindful repetition......
The discovery of endless richness in subtle variation on familiar themes.
Evans "Badlands" the House of High Speed
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Long Distance Anything is Repetitious
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On 6/23/2006
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(70.167.nnn.nnn)
Since when has quantity dictated fun?
for gods sakes, men have been climbing moutain peaks and swimming triathalons to prove who's dick is bigger for ages! the few and far between will find a medium less traveled and perhaps more enjoyable simply for longevitity of movement through the years.
great! travel the globe and boast about distance! you guys are awesome! but don't set the bar all about long distance to be worth a deamn!
some of us like to make the best out of a 10 mile pump everyday instead of traveling 2000 miles once a year or maybe once in a lifetime and brag about it everyday :D
just ride the damn things and let your actions speak louder than roars here :P
and oh yes! i pump often and anyone here that loves flat-land self generated speeds.... look @ ME @ 53! this aint no party, this aint no disco... this is a nice stroll down the san diego beach boardwalks.! senior citizen wheelchair rides on your skateboard! you don't need to catch 20' of air to show what you got! just be smooth and in command of your skateship.
cYa
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Mexico to Kanaduh
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On 6/22/2006
Marc Moberg
wrote in from
(71.231.nnn.nnn)
Why is he going up? Don't you think down would be easier? Just kidding....
Anyway, let him know that Seattle is a bad place to ride a skateboard on the street. It is considered a toy and it is illegal to ride in the street. However, the sidewalks are open for riding, he will have to do a little people slalom to get through.
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cali pushers
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On 6/22/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Haven't yet heard of LDP events down south, but there are a couple hardcore California distance pushers, E.J. I've been in touch with, that was planning to make the Solstice, but I alerted him when the event got scaled down. He's still jonesin' to come up. He mentioned a 50-miler this September the Ensenita to Rosita bike ride, sounds wicked!!
A guy by the moniker "Deciduous Tea" on the Gravity boards is on his way up here - he's boarding from Mexico to Canada, so his schedule's hard to pinpoint, but he'll be coming through Seattle in July. He was stoked to hear we'll ride along with him wherever / whenever we can on his stint through Seattle metro. I think he's just south of Portland at the moment.. Will call him before we head to Salem tomorrow. Details coming!
And of course -- the Portland Push crew... when's the next one I wonder?!
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Hmmmm......
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On 6/21/2006 SS
wrote in from
(71.233.nnn.nnn)
Yes James, I understand completely.
I guess I didn't really mean it that way.
It would be more of a way to spread the stoke than anything else.
But I guess I was thinking of economies of scale.
In thoery the more decks Roe can sell the less each deck would cost to
manufacture.
But perhaps that sort of economic theory does not apply here?
Anyway it was just a thought.
I hope you and everyone here is doing well and pumpin' up a storm.
Cheers
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Roe
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On 6/21/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
SS - I've always been into LDP for the ride above all else. Roe's supported our niche for years now, and helped it evolve.
Increase sales? A hand-made carbon fiber deck at Gareth's price barely breaks even. From the inception of "Roe slalom", Gareth's goal has always been to get people on decks and riding. That matches my philosophy. The wireless device testing business is how I make money. How I have fun, is riding and testing boards, and the quality of the Roe LDP speaks for itself.
Time to get some pumps in -- its "Go Skateboarding Day" after all!
thanks -jp
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Roe Decks....
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On 6/21/2006 SS
wrote in from
(71.233.nnn.nnn)
Hey all!
James check out Yandall's Skogging forum.
It sounds like he may be interested in some Roe decks.
Possibly the LDP model or a signature model of his own.
Could be a cool way to increase sales of the Pavedwave LDP deck.
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Sunday's Pump Madness
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On 6/21/2006
Double D
wrote in from
United States
(67.40.nnn.nnn)
Thanks, JP, for a ton of fun on Sunday.I'm totally fired up now on distance riding. Now, I just need to get these arch cramps handled. Got them again on a 8 mile ride this morning. Very frustrating! Anyway, Sunday's ride was Great. Can't believe how many people showed up. The Gospel is spreading! Thanks for all your hard work, and all that you've done for this discipline. Can't wait for the next event. Green River?
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ldp california
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On 6/20/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
are there any flatland distance skate events down in southern california? i didn't see anything on the contest calendar, but that would be awesome. it would be nice to check out a few of those great trails, meet some more riders, and have an excuse for a nice vacation.
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july and august LDP events
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On 6/20/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
MS Skate August 27th is coming...but not soon enough! -- so we're definately planning another LDP event in July.
I'll soon have MS brochures to distribute as part of volunteer effort again. If any of you want to promote this as well, I'll get extras.
This year the MS Skate brochure uses a skateboard as the logo!! HUGE thanks to Trish Alexander and the speedskaters of SkateJourneys for supporting and promoting long distance skateboarding, three years running!
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How to Pump