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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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Pumper
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On 8/23/2007 Mr. X
wrote in from
United States
(69.222.nnn.nnn)
Gents,
My first board is done and I'm working on the second. You've been considerable influence. The first board is a 26" Arbor Koa mini with Tracker RT-S and X and 3DM 76a Duro Hotspots (This is board I wanted when I was a teen). The second board (parts on order but not yet received) Z-Flex 30" deck, Seismic trucks, stable rear and turny front. I purchased a couple of pairs of springs for the trucks, soom angled risers and 3dm Hot Spot 69 wheels in the 80a durometer. This should provide minimum setup for a decent pumper.
Been thinking about a longer board for next year. Kind of long distance pumper/cruiser. (LDP?) I found this one dudes site (search for pavedwave gear - I don't want to post his url) who has lots of examples of what he's used. I'm liking one setup in particular for LDP board. RoeRacing deck, Split-fire or Carver trucks and Gumballs.
Mr. X
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front truck 'snap test'
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On 8/22/2007
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Senor X - another decent pre-riding test for setting up a good, snappy pumping front truck, is this: once you've set it all up, stand the board up on its tail with the trucks facing you, and with just a couple fingers or palm, pull a wheel toward the wheelwell, like going into a hard turn, then slide your fingers away to let it snap out / release from your hand. The truck *should* snap back to center with a nice, responsive rebound -- even a little 'wiggle' as it centers again. This will also give you a good idea how prone the setup is to wheelbite.
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Rear truck steering, pumping, and 'gears'
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On 8/10/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
. X, yup, the reduced steering at the rear truck makes it drive forward Vs. steer an arc. Gilmour considers this 'a gear up' in bike parlance. You'd find that slow pumping may not work quite as well, but the thrust at a slightly higher speed would be increased, and btw, so would traction at said faster speed.
There's three other factors besides steering angle to consider in 'gearing' the pump-speed of a board.
One is truck-bushing tension (or spring tension if you use Seismics). Softer bushing kits can make for easy low-speed pumps, and stiff do better at speed. In slalom, it's best to go as stiff as you can manuver thru a given turn-arc, however for cruising/pumping, it's often finding the most comfortable RANGE of lean and thrust that's important. Hence, Stims, Radikals and Jim-Z's are great because of the greater rebound and because they can be Softer while providing some stability.
A second thing to consider is wheel traction and roll. Too sticky, and you lose speed in rolling, and you have 'pump' harder to 'cruise', yet to hard, and you've got no 'teeth' to dig in with to gain momentum during acceleration. Generally, softer duros work better for lower speeds or hilly sections (and rougher surfaces), so they 'gear down', while harder durometers will cruise along great once up to speed or with a lighter pumping motion, better once you've up-shifted a bit.
Third is board flex. Softer dosen't mean better, as there's two flexing directions; Torsional or side-to-side; and linear flex (which is why some boards have camber for more power). However, softer usually is a 'gear down', and stiffer a 'gear up'. Really, though, it's whether the board 'rebounds' when pumped down upon. That's the big factor in flex that make or breaks a pumping board.
Last thought here; I mentioned using a mellower version of the steering used in slalom set-ups. You want a more fluid turn than the quick darting turns made by slalom racers. Slalom boards are predominately forward truck steering vehichles, the very little steering for a given lean angle at the rear. You'd want 'some' of that front-end dominated steering, but not quite that quick and nervous. At the rear, you want 'some' of that thrust and directionality, but you also may want to scrub some speed, too. Manuvering around obstacles such as pedestrains, potholes, roadkill, etc is still needed, but those turns need not be lightning-quick. So, take a bit of Slalom thinking with you, but 'de-tune' your pumper to keep the fluidity and flow smooth.
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Pump Setup
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On 8/10/2007
Mr. X
wrote in from
United States
(70.236.nnn.nnn)
PSR,
I may try the JimZ bushings but before I read your post I purchased a set of Tracker Orange which is one level up from the blue that I'm using now. I'll try those first. Also, If I understand your statement correctly, you're saying that I should or could put a wedge on the front truck and a reverse wedge on the rear? Wouldn't this further reduce the turning radius of the rear truck? Is this a good characteristic of a good pump setup? I'm trying to imagine the mechanics of the board when it's being pumped. Seems to me that this would make it harder to start but faster once is does. Yes.
Mr. X
Lastely, Let me say thanks first off for all the advise. I've gone back several hundred posts and have learned a lot. (Good Forum!)
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Pumper set-up
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On 8/8/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Mr. X, get yourself the Jim-Z bushings, one set hard, one soft. Put those on the rear RTS. Mix + match soft/hard Jim-Z's. I believe you'll find that bushing (shaped very much like the old Stimulator) will give you more rebound, and thrust, in pumping when used on the rear truck. You could also try the lower/soft up front for more stability, when you find that nice multi-level parking garage that'll pass for a hill. Keep the wedging similar to, but not as aggressive as, what one would use for a Slalom set-up. -7* to -10* at the rear, and +5 to +8 up front should be a good range (depends on board wheelbase, flex, etc.) for decent pumping. Get a front-foot block (check over on Slalomskateboarder BST, Glenn has some nice ones) to increase forward thrust.
A great flat-land alternative IMHO would be a Seismic rear truck with Medium/Med-Stiff springs. The rebound from the springs has great thrust potential, but does require quick-ish feet. My Turner Hybrid with a Seismic rear on it can pump UP a 4% gradient, until I run outa breath, of course...But that's something that not-so-easy to do with Trackers only on it.
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Optimal Pump setup
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On 8/8/2007
Mr. X
wrote in from
United States
(64.81.nnn.nnn)
You are correct Mr. Peters sir. RT-S rear and RT-X front. A type-o on me. I appreciate the comments. I'm using a Z-flex board with almost no flex. I purchased the softest available bushings for the Trackers. (RT-X and RT-S) I too like the more stable setup but I think the only way I'm going to know for sure is to buy another board and learn for myself.
I'm thinking about a couple of Revenge trucks on a mini cruzer deck. Small and tight turns. Not good for hills but I live in Illinois anyway. Not a hill in site. I'll post my results if anybody is interested.
Mr. X
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pump board setup
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On 8/8/2007
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
i think you meant rts rear and rtx front, right? because reversed would be the same...
i've always preferred a stable rts in the back and a looser rtx in the front, for an efficient pump setup. a few people like a "surfy" pumper, with the reverse: a more stable front and looser back truck. it's not as common, but still one way to surf your pump.
a basic note on stiffer or looser trucks depends on the deck. if you're working with a fairly flexy, springy deck, then you can afford both trucks to be a little more snug, balancing out the snap of each pump between the trucks and deck. on the other hand if your deck is stiff and unforgiving, then the bushings in the trucks will be providing most of the rebound, so there needs to be more give / looser truck as a result.
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Best setup for a pump board.
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On 8/8/2007
Mr. X
wrote in from
United States
(69.222.nnn.nnn)
Let me ask please... I've recently built a board with Tracker RT-X in the Front and Tracker RT-X in the rear. I can pump the thing pretty good but it seems that I can build better speed when the board is reversed. Can anybody tell me from experience if 2 stiffer or 2 turnier trucks would work better? (ie: 2 RT-S's or 2 RT-X's). I'll build another board if my current setup is lacking optimal hardware. Thanks.
Mr. X
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X-Trux
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On 7/1/2007
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(198.144.nnn.nnn)
From the webmaster..
To those who signed up to be X-Trux test riders, I'm sad to report that the South African company that was developing them seems to have flaked on us. Their last contact with me was Sept 12, 2006 when they were reportedly making final changes to truck's design. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
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Center set wheels
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On 6/16/2007
Rick S
wrote in from
United States
(66.32.nnn.nnn)
Thanks PSR! I've read some good things about the 78a GOS and 80a/77m Hawgs, and I expect that the 78a GOS would be faster than the softer 75a that I've tried. I'm not racing on these wheels, but since I'm pumping on the flats, I'm providing all of the power, and I'd like wheels that keep the speed as much as possible. I should also point out that the 76mm FlyWheels I was referring to in my previous post were the first generation amber wheels which have a core which is about 50mm, 5mm larger that the current version, and that may account for the ride quality.
What I'm hoping is that one of these center set wheels might provide similar performance to the Gumballs or Speed Vents, with the aded plus of being easy to rotate to balance the wear.
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Center-set wheels
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On 6/14/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Two advantages I think of right off the bat are; Less wheel interference when having to foot-push, as the wheel lip is 'tucked in' closer to the deck; And, you can even out the wear by reversing the wheels, which will give the wheels longer life, and keep the rolling resistance down (coned wheels grip a bit better, but are slower, and can track oddly on straights).
A down-side might be needing a bit more wheel-to-deck clearance to prevent wheel-rub in deep turns (depends on whether your truck's hangers are nearly as wide as the deck), but otherwise, I don't see any drawbacks.
The Big Zig should be pretty close to what you're looking for, although I think the softest out (now) is 80A? Flywheels (and other large cored wheels) do seem to ride harsher, even with softer compounds.
SpeedVents (not centerset,but bigger core) don't seem to ride harsh, though. Could be the 'bounce' in the urethane, might be the core? The old 'Super Paw' was pretty smooth also, with a big 'bling' factor with the machined Aluminum core. Bummer Power Paw went out of business.
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Center set wheels
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On 6/14/2007
Rick S
wrote in from
United States
(66.32.nnn.nnn)
Has anyone had good results running center set wheels for LDP? I really like the option of reversing the wheels to balance the wear. I've been running 83mm FlyWheels for years, but have avoided the 76mm due to the harsh ride of the big hub. In general, I prefer the 75-77mm wheel size, but all of my favorite wheels in that range are offset. I have tried the Sector 9 GOS and Bomb Hills, both in 75a, but found them noticeably slower than the FlyWheels, Gumballs and SpeedVents. I haven't tried the S9 wheels in 78a, or the Hawgs, but I’d like to get some feedback before any more experimentation. Any comments, pro or con, would be appreciated.
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Randal set-up
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On 5/29/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
So, Nicky, did the birthday present work out?
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Randals set-up
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On 5/27/2007 Pre-School Rider
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Nicky, Randals are different than many 'normal' trucks. Look at the PIVOTS, not the Kingpins! Put the Pivots towards the board's ends, and Randals will then turn just fine. Oh,with the risers, If they're wedged, put the thin ends towards the tip/tail for Better Turning; For Speed, put the thin ends facing towards the board's tip or nose (this may raise the tail a bit); DO NOT put the wedged risers on with the thin end towards the Tail, it'll steer like a forklift. If you've got further questions, I check in here every 12-14 hrs. or so.
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Assembly
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On 5/27/2007 Nicky
wrote in from
United States
(71.116.nnn.nnn)
Hey...bought a longboard with randal trucks and wedge risers for my husband and am trying to assembly it for his birthday. I put it together but the board goes in the opposite direction. What an I doing wrong? The trucks are on with the kingpins facing eachother and the risers only go on one way..... I am lost. HELP!
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the wave / x board / ess board
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On 4/27/2007 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.139.nnn.nnn)
I am surprised seeing this board at costco, sport authority, big 5
never thought it would sell well...
guess i am wrong..
someone told me the inventor is korean and homeless before hitting big with this invention.
"Well, the X-Board guys took their board to the annual INPEX convention on May 12 - 15. INPEX is America’s largest invention trade show, and the X-Board came out with three gold medals - in the Sports area, Recreation area and Toys & Games area. The X-Board also took the 2004 Grand Prix prize, and won Best Invention for the Americas in 2004!!"
http://www.streetsurfing.com/
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spawn of pumgo
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On 4/24/2007 peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
since this place seems to have taken a recent sharp psychotic turn toward the deviant side of mass-marketed skate sludge, I present you a recent evil finding:
make it stop...
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/booster-blades-honorable-suicide-254319.php
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before pumgo
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On 4/9/2007 hc
wrote in from
United States
(168.149.nnn.nnn)
http://www.streetsurfer.com/
(powerboard)
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pumpin or pimpin?
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On 3/30/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
I saw this thing when it came out, and LAUGHED, for quite awhile, too. ;-D
Ilove the 'see-saw motion claim; Ever endo hangin' ten?, yeah, that'll Work...
Even their claim of being the first 'push-free' skateboard is IMHO, bogus. My first 'push-free' deck was a fiberglass Hobie, equipped with Speed Springs and Pacers. That thing (and this was '75) would literally climb hills just gyrating, and IF that failed, just Tic-Tac (or Moonwalk if you're able). Granted, my Bahne from two years previous was maybe the better board, but it came with Bahne trucks and Road-Rider #2's; not so fast, though agile enuff.
So, Pumping a board for motion, using surf-type turning motions, has been around since, well, before I was born, before Vietnam was a war-zone. Some folk just gotta use Hype. I'm with CY on this; I'll stick with a good ol' Skateboard...
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Adam's http://www.pumgo.com/
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On 3/30/2007 Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(70.167.nnn.nnn)
wow. more funky crap ! looks like a scream for a few minutes... i'll stick to a conventional skateboard.. thanks!
cYa
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pumping foot
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On 3/30/2007
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(70.167.nnn.nnn)
On 3/21/2007 Nick wrote in from United States (128.82.xxx.xxx) Help me out, I just recently got a new Krown longboard and for no reason that I can think of my pumping foot is killing me. I've skated before and this has never happened to me. Whats wrong? any doctors in the house?
no doctor here but you mention "pumping foot". I pump with both feet so i'm not sure what you are talking about. www.pumpyourdeck.com .. is that the pumping you are talking about? if you have one pumping foot, perhaps you aint pumpin right ...
cYa
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OUCH!
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On 3/21/2007
Nick
wrote in from
United States
(128.82.nnn.nnn)
Help me out, I just recently got a new Krown longboard and for no reason that I can think of my pumping foot is killing me. I've skated before and this has never happened to me. Whats wrong? any doctors in the house?
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Footstops
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On 3/21/2007 Juan M
wrote in from
Venezuela
(200.35.nnn.nnn)
Hello PSR could be possible to post a pic of your footstop.
Thanks
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Footstops
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On 3/16/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Cam, you'd want to use the left bolt holes; The L. rear would put you slightly behind the truck's axle; The L. front would put your foot right over the axle (and in slalom, often just a tad Too Far forward), but your smallest toe will 'lead' the axle. Best bet, really, is not to use the truck holes, but instead use a 5mm or 6mm T-nut, covered by a thin foam (or Dooks) riser (with a cutout for the T-nut), and bolt the block on to that. This lets you put that block exactly where it feels best(usually somewhere between the front/rear bolts of the front truck), plus it won't tweak any mounting hardware.
A good way to figure out your best foot placement would be to use sticky-back Surfboard foam bits on top of the griptape. Don't trust them to stay put very long, but that'll at least let you kinda figure where that toe-block is most effective and comfortable.
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footstops
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On 3/16/2007
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(208.64.nnn.nnn)
I used old truck bushings (two stacked) and found the front-most left bolt hole to be idea for my foot size/placement.
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How to Pump