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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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pump ennui
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On 3/16/2008
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
there are so many more people who really get a rush out of the speed generated by pumping and creating their own gravity on a flat plane-- so the un-cool nonsense that it is to a few naysayers, is far more satisfying to those who dig it, to the point where brash critique can just come across as lack of enlightenment, or plain and simple disinterest, and in the end who cares if its cool or not, I don't. bikers who ride tour de france aren't any less cool than those who ride cyclocross, just different worlds, so whatever. i think bank riding / carving hills is a blast, but that's just different kinds of *terrain* to pump-- pumping can be seen as its own concept.
i do agree that explaining all the mechanics of pumping step by step can be as interesting as explaining why a joke is funny and therefore why you should laugh. yet some seem to benefit from having a technical model in their head. even though the detailed yak doesn't do much for me, there are many different types of learning amongst all the crazy humans.
it would be cool if you post a VID rather than a picture though, to check out your 3-wheeler RTR in action!
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Powercarve
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On 3/16/2008
Whacko Zako
wrote in from
United States
(71.136.nnn.nnn)
I fear this forum on pumping grows tiresome, How to pump article, I browsed over however nothing here strikes me as cool, only as a way to sum up what is obvious for most. Me personally, I ride a 3 wheel RTR, a short-long with Classic indy-type high trucks on huge stacks, and prefer driveways and steeps to all this push and pump nonsense. Sure you can get a board rolling and then pump to maintain your speed, but whats cool about that? Surprise, you can pump on banks with the right set-up! I better just post some pictures, and if anyone gets this, post after me!
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Portland Pusher #9 - 100+ racers signed up!
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On 1/29/2008
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(198.144.nnn.nnn)
The Portland Pusher #9 is shaping up to be one of the largest races ever on the Ncdsa.com Contest Calendar.. Click here for link
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Pumping with Bennett Vectors
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On 1/14/2008
Rob in VA
wrote in from
United States
(138.162.nnn.nnn)
I just put the new clear red bushings in my Bennett Vector Re-issues and they are great. Can definitely pump easier than with the stock red bushings. The $8 that I spent (from tailtap) was well worth it. Although not quite as easy, I am able to pump my flat Fibreflex Teamrider reissue with the Bennetts almost as good as my neighbors Sector 9 longboard (with loads of concave) with Randalls. So, pumping is quite possible on just your basic old school set up. Couldn't hang for too long, however, before my left (front) calf was worn out. Need to work on technique I guess and am going to try putting in some wedge next to see how it does.
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wedged spud
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On 1/12/2008
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
jamal, you'd definately find a topmount easier overall to pump. but depending what trucks you've got on the spud, you might get a little better action just by adding some wedging in front and dewedging in the back.
this is the one i'm hoping to build and test out-
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low-ride pumping
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On 1/11/2008 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(64.30.nnn.nnn)
Jamal, with a drop-down, the deck swings Out laterally a bit in pumped turns, not driving downwards to the wheels,as a cambered(top-mount) deck will do, so it Looses Energy (great for controlled descents!) when you pump it 'normally'.
Try setting your rear foot further back in that 'cradle', keep the front foot on the flat. Use a bit of hip-twist as well as shoulder angulation (lifting the shoulder up on the inside of the turn). Be sure the rear truck turns less than the front (slalom set-up in steering). I hope some of this helps, but maybe the Drop-carve is what you're needing? My experience with Urban Assault is where I decided to use non-dropped deck for cruise-pumping.
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landyachtz spud and still what?
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On 1/11/2008
jamal
wrote in from
United States
(76.118.nnn.nnn)
god man,
i got the landyachtz spud and still can't as hell pump
what am i doing wrong?
do i need to work out more?
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mile and lowrider pumpers
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On 12/15/2007
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
hey jimi, if you haven't already you might check where we've tracked some cyber miles a couple years back, here. this page also shows the set ups we used at the time. 3:33 was the best mile so far, and this was done by pumping, no pushing. a better time might be had by finding a *straight* stretch and pumping it both directions to ensure it's flat -- most of the times posted were done in an 400m oval banked velodrome designed for high speed racing bikes, we skated on the flat inner "apron" most of the time -- but i think the constant turning in the oval might cut down on the overall time?
i'm currently working on a low rider pump setup using a LY EVO, which has a more efficient angle mount for the front truck. one thing we found by cranking hard on the older DH design like the one "ac" posted, pumping stresses that particular angle with some interesting results. granted, this could have been a one-time fluke, but i like the feel of the Evo angles over the DH anyway. the main issue i still have with these in general is its harder to transmit pump power into the front truck for quick acceleration and power, i still prefer a topmount for pumping efficiency. plus the wheelbase is huge on these.
what i'd really like to try is the LY Evo shape, in the shorter Spud length...this would mean creating a whole new mold.
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lowerd
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On 10/22/2007 ac
wrote in from
United States
(70.19.nnn.nnn)
low rider boards are really easy on your legs for pumping
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Fastest mile
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On 10/17/2007
Jimi
wrote in from
United States
(146.244.nnn.nnn)
It's been forever since I've visited this forum (pumping was just barely added last I was here). My little brother had to move from San Diego to Washington state. He loved to surf/body board and I knew he wouldn't be able to do that anymore so I gave him my flexdex (terrible for pumping) which he always loved to ride.
Somehow, I never replaced my board, just road my friends' boards. But since I rode my buddy's OP with Revenge trucks (pumped effortlessly) I've got the fever back.
I want to set up my own board and was looking through the archives for info on fast pumping setups. The info on 176', mile, half and full marathons was really cool, but I didn't see any info on what kind of setups were being used by competitors. Are there any events like these going on in San Diego?
I'd like a commuter pumper: something that would allow me to cover as much boardwalk as possible in minimal time. This includes easily maneuvering around people.
I know this topic is the elusive white rabbit, but perhaps someone knows what equipment top finishers in the mile or half marathon competitions tend to use.
I weigh 155lbs and like a flexy 40" (more or less) board, but would try anything to achieve results. Those lowered (drop thru or angled) boards seem pretty sweet too.
Cheers and thanks for any help.
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risers for bennett 71mm
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On 10/12/2007
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
I use a couple angled wedges in front and dewedge in rear with the same, one soft angled riser + one hard riser, front and back. Whats pictured is actually the soft riser + angles from the Khiro wedge kit --highly recommended!!- but basically the angle of those hard ones is the same as the standard (5/16"-9/16")
Other factors are if your bushings are really soft, allowing deeper turns, and whether your deck has some concave or not, that might give wheels a little more breathing room before chance of bite. Basically, how loose you like to run 'em. but this combo normally works for me. Here's a couple sk8kings links:
shock pads
hard riser wedges
wedge kit (setting up several boards)
@ Mr. X, would be cool to hear how that little pumper is workin out!
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how many risers to use
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On 10/11/2007 graham
wrote in from
United States
(68.45.nnn.nnn)
i want to set up my board up with some bennetts and 71mm wheels, and the front truck wedged and the back dewedged but i dont wanna get wheels bite, how many risers should i use to avoid wheel bite
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Pumper
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On 8/23/2007 Mr. X
wrote in from
United States
(69.222.nnn.nnn)
Gents,
My first board is done and I'm working on the second. You've been considerable influence. The first board is a 26" Arbor Koa mini with Tracker RT-S and X and 3DM 76a Duro Hotspots (This is board I wanted when I was a teen). The second board (parts on order but not yet received) Z-Flex 30" deck, Seismic trucks, stable rear and turny front. I purchased a couple of pairs of springs for the trucks, soom angled risers and 3dm Hot Spot 69 wheels in the 80a durometer. This should provide minimum setup for a decent pumper.
Been thinking about a longer board for next year. Kind of long distance pumper/cruiser. (LDP?) I found this one dudes site (search for pavedwave gear - I don't want to post his url) who has lots of examples of what he's used. I'm liking one setup in particular for LDP board. RoeRacing deck, Split-fire or Carver trucks and Gumballs.
Mr. X
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front truck 'snap test'
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On 8/22/2007
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Senor X - another decent pre-riding test for setting up a good, snappy pumping front truck, is this: once you've set it all up, stand the board up on its tail with the trucks facing you, and with just a couple fingers or palm, pull a wheel toward the wheelwell, like going into a hard turn, then slide your fingers away to let it snap out / release from your hand. The truck *should* snap back to center with a nice, responsive rebound -- even a little 'wiggle' as it centers again. This will also give you a good idea how prone the setup is to wheelbite.
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Rear truck steering, pumping, and 'gears'
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On 8/10/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
. X, yup, the reduced steering at the rear truck makes it drive forward Vs. steer an arc. Gilmour considers this 'a gear up' in bike parlance. You'd find that slow pumping may not work quite as well, but the thrust at a slightly higher speed would be increased, and btw, so would traction at said faster speed.
There's three other factors besides steering angle to consider in 'gearing' the pump-speed of a board.
One is truck-bushing tension (or spring tension if you use Seismics). Softer bushing kits can make for easy low-speed pumps, and stiff do better at speed. In slalom, it's best to go as stiff as you can manuver thru a given turn-arc, however for cruising/pumping, it's often finding the most comfortable RANGE of lean and thrust that's important. Hence, Stims, Radikals and Jim-Z's are great because of the greater rebound and because they can be Softer while providing some stability.
A second thing to consider is wheel traction and roll. Too sticky, and you lose speed in rolling, and you have 'pump' harder to 'cruise', yet to hard, and you've got no 'teeth' to dig in with to gain momentum during acceleration. Generally, softer duros work better for lower speeds or hilly sections (and rougher surfaces), so they 'gear down', while harder durometers will cruise along great once up to speed or with a lighter pumping motion, better once you've up-shifted a bit.
Third is board flex. Softer dosen't mean better, as there's two flexing directions; Torsional or side-to-side; and linear flex (which is why some boards have camber for more power). However, softer usually is a 'gear down', and stiffer a 'gear up'. Really, though, it's whether the board 'rebounds' when pumped down upon. That's the big factor in flex that make or breaks a pumping board.
Last thought here; I mentioned using a mellower version of the steering used in slalom set-ups. You want a more fluid turn than the quick darting turns made by slalom racers. Slalom boards are predominately forward truck steering vehichles, the very little steering for a given lean angle at the rear. You'd want 'some' of that front-end dominated steering, but not quite that quick and nervous. At the rear, you want 'some' of that thrust and directionality, but you also may want to scrub some speed, too. Manuvering around obstacles such as pedestrains, potholes, roadkill, etc is still needed, but those turns need not be lightning-quick. So, take a bit of Slalom thinking with you, but 'de-tune' your pumper to keep the fluidity and flow smooth.
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Pump Setup
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On 8/10/2007
Mr. X
wrote in from
United States
(70.236.nnn.nnn)
PSR,
I may try the JimZ bushings but before I read your post I purchased a set of Tracker Orange which is one level up from the blue that I'm using now. I'll try those first. Also, If I understand your statement correctly, you're saying that I should or could put a wedge on the front truck and a reverse wedge on the rear? Wouldn't this further reduce the turning radius of the rear truck? Is this a good characteristic of a good pump setup? I'm trying to imagine the mechanics of the board when it's being pumped. Seems to me that this would make it harder to start but faster once is does. Yes.
Mr. X
Lastely, Let me say thanks first off for all the advise. I've gone back several hundred posts and have learned a lot. (Good Forum!)
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Pumper set-up
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On 8/8/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Mr. X, get yourself the Jim-Z bushings, one set hard, one soft. Put those on the rear RTS. Mix + match soft/hard Jim-Z's. I believe you'll find that bushing (shaped very much like the old Stimulator) will give you more rebound, and thrust, in pumping when used on the rear truck. You could also try the lower/soft up front for more stability, when you find that nice multi-level parking garage that'll pass for a hill. Keep the wedging similar to, but not as aggressive as, what one would use for a Slalom set-up. -7* to -10* at the rear, and +5 to +8 up front should be a good range (depends on board wheelbase, flex, etc.) for decent pumping. Get a front-foot block (check over on Slalomskateboarder BST, Glenn has some nice ones) to increase forward thrust.
A great flat-land alternative IMHO would be a Seismic rear truck with Medium/Med-Stiff springs. The rebound from the springs has great thrust potential, but does require quick-ish feet. My Turner Hybrid with a Seismic rear on it can pump UP a 4% gradient, until I run outa breath, of course...But that's something that not-so-easy to do with Trackers only on it.
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Optimal Pump setup
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On 8/8/2007
Mr. X
wrote in from
United States
(64.81.nnn.nnn)
You are correct Mr. Peters sir. RT-S rear and RT-X front. A type-o on me. I appreciate the comments. I'm using a Z-flex board with almost no flex. I purchased the softest available bushings for the Trackers. (RT-X and RT-S) I too like the more stable setup but I think the only way I'm going to know for sure is to buy another board and learn for myself.
I'm thinking about a couple of Revenge trucks on a mini cruzer deck. Small and tight turns. Not good for hills but I live in Illinois anyway. Not a hill in site. I'll post my results if anybody is interested.
Mr. X
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pump board setup
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On 8/8/2007
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
i think you meant rts rear and rtx front, right? because reversed would be the same...
i've always preferred a stable rts in the back and a looser rtx in the front, for an efficient pump setup. a few people like a "surfy" pumper, with the reverse: a more stable front and looser back truck. it's not as common, but still one way to surf your pump.
a basic note on stiffer or looser trucks depends on the deck. if you're working with a fairly flexy, springy deck, then you can afford both trucks to be a little more snug, balancing out the snap of each pump between the trucks and deck. on the other hand if your deck is stiff and unforgiving, then the bushings in the trucks will be providing most of the rebound, so there needs to be more give / looser truck as a result.
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Best setup for a pump board.
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On 8/8/2007
Mr. X
wrote in from
United States
(69.222.nnn.nnn)
Let me ask please... I've recently built a board with Tracker RT-X in the Front and Tracker RT-X in the rear. I can pump the thing pretty good but it seems that I can build better speed when the board is reversed. Can anybody tell me from experience if 2 stiffer or 2 turnier trucks would work better? (ie: 2 RT-S's or 2 RT-X's). I'll build another board if my current setup is lacking optimal hardware. Thanks.
Mr. X
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X-Trux
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On 7/1/2007
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(198.144.nnn.nnn)
From the webmaster..
To those who signed up to be X-Trux test riders, I'm sad to report that the South African company that was developing them seems to have flaked on us. Their last contact with me was Sept 12, 2006 when they were reportedly making final changes to truck's design. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
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Center set wheels
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On 6/16/2007
Rick S
wrote in from
United States
(66.32.nnn.nnn)
Thanks PSR! I've read some good things about the 78a GOS and 80a/77m Hawgs, and I expect that the 78a GOS would be faster than the softer 75a that I've tried. I'm not racing on these wheels, but since I'm pumping on the flats, I'm providing all of the power, and I'd like wheels that keep the speed as much as possible. I should also point out that the 76mm FlyWheels I was referring to in my previous post were the first generation amber wheels which have a core which is about 50mm, 5mm larger that the current version, and that may account for the ride quality.
What I'm hoping is that one of these center set wheels might provide similar performance to the Gumballs or Speed Vents, with the aded plus of being easy to rotate to balance the wear.
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Center-set wheels
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On 6/14/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Two advantages I think of right off the bat are; Less wheel interference when having to foot-push, as the wheel lip is 'tucked in' closer to the deck; And, you can even out the wear by reversing the wheels, which will give the wheels longer life, and keep the rolling resistance down (coned wheels grip a bit better, but are slower, and can track oddly on straights).
A down-side might be needing a bit more wheel-to-deck clearance to prevent wheel-rub in deep turns (depends on whether your truck's hangers are nearly as wide as the deck), but otherwise, I don't see any drawbacks.
The Big Zig should be pretty close to what you're looking for, although I think the softest out (now) is 80A? Flywheels (and other large cored wheels) do seem to ride harsher, even with softer compounds.
SpeedVents (not centerset,but bigger core) don't seem to ride harsh, though. Could be the 'bounce' in the urethane, might be the core? The old 'Super Paw' was pretty smooth also, with a big 'bling' factor with the machined Aluminum core. Bummer Power Paw went out of business.
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Center set wheels
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On 6/14/2007
Rick S
wrote in from
United States
(66.32.nnn.nnn)
Has anyone had good results running center set wheels for LDP? I really like the option of reversing the wheels to balance the wear. I've been running 83mm FlyWheels for years, but have avoided the 76mm due to the harsh ride of the big hub. In general, I prefer the 75-77mm wheel size, but all of my favorite wheels in that range are offset. I have tried the Sector 9 GOS and Bomb Hills, both in 75a, but found them noticeably slower than the FlyWheels, Gumballs and SpeedVents. I haven't tried the S9 wheels in 78a, or the Hawgs, but I’d like to get some feedback before any more experimentation. Any comments, pro or con, would be appreciated.
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Randal set-up
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On 5/29/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
So, Nicky, did the birthday present work out?
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How to Pump