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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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RE: 34" CYa set-up
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On 1/5/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
I agree Steve, circles, ovals, parabolas, even mobius loops - a predictable carving pattern is good! What's really worked well for me on a combination pump + perpetual carving -- at least on uphills and flats, is finding a rhythm that's easy to maintain and picks up a lot of speed with a higher cadence, or frequency of pump. That's where having some good tunes comes in... you forget you're on a deck sometimes, as if you're just floating (at 15-20mph!)
Our most efficient, maintainable "grooveboarding" sessions seem to be right in the center... We've found that burning leg and butt muscles will produce fast sprinting results, but for the long haul, I believe if after a really loooooong pump session your ABS are burning, then you're finding just the right groove.
Upper body and arm swinging can definately be lost energy, but I think that the high gears are at your center, and that’s where your energy can be concentrated for more efficient, deep grooves. So for uphills, transitions, and starting from a standstill, extended reach really comes into play. At this stage in our riding, it seems like that’s the best place to find the energy for acceleration.
Then once you reach a higher cadence, a tight circular "Shadow Boxing" style of arm movement just helps perpetuate the carving/pumping that much more -- the rest is all up to how long your feet and mid-section can hold out!
Derek and I have put together just a few vids on some of these techniques but in a couple future installments will add some where we're capturing more of these "tight" grooves. It's kind of hard to film because when we hit the deeper grooves, the cameraman can't keep up! Which is why a good amount of our video footage is still just feedback on how to *build up* to the most efficient groove - we still gotta capture the real thang!
peters
www.pavedwave.com
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RE: 34" CYa set-up
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On 1/5/2005
Jack Merica
wrote in from
United States
(192.35.nnn.nnn)
Thanks Steve I'm having a blast. Coaching my son is a little vexing. He has some minor balance issues, but overall he is doing very well. After reading your post and watching CY pump in the clip on his website I'm beginning to picture what I need to do. It looks similar to weighting/unweighting in turns when parallel skiing. As I don't ski with poles I'll try that technique along with your tip.
Cheers,
Jack
God rides a Longboard.
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34" CYa set-up
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On 1/5/2005
Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Welcome back, Jack!
I love my CYa deck, and I've tried running a number of different combinations of wheels and trucks on it. The 150mm RII's are a very good choice, but may seem a bit wide with the Avilas. I'm running 135mm widths with the Avilas and those are plenty wide. Your set up will also give you the flexability to run other wheels...like Manx or Grippins...and that will narrow your stance a tiny bit, as well as give you quicker "start ups" on your pumps.
AFA being a UA, I wouldn't know what that's like. But pumping is more about where and how you put pressure or force onto the surface of the deck, and how that pressure or force affects the wheels and the side-load traction they encounter with the ground. I generate most of my pumping power from my hips and thighs by "counter pushing" pressure between my right and left feet. I'm regular stance (L-F, R-R), so to generate speed turning right, I push my front foot into the turn to the right, and at the same time put a little pressure on the rear of the deck to the left. I do both of these with mostly toe-weighting. When turning left, I put more power to my heels, pulling the nose of the deck to the left and pushing out (or right) with my rear heel.
When putting it all together, I try to keep everything as "circular" as possible. I also am a mountain/road bicyclist, so I think of pumping as "spinning", moving from one turn to the next with little or no breaks. Think of it as carving a perfect wave pattern, or the side of an infinity symbol. For us non-UA's, we get the feeling of this by keeping our hands either at our sides or behind our backs (Hollien Style!)
Arm waving may get you started, but good technique and strong quads/calves/glutes will keep you going.
Anything to add, fellow pumping dudes/dudettes?
-=S=-
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Any upper extremity amputees out there pumping?
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On 1/4/2005
Jack Merica
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
Last month after purchasing my 9 year old his first "real" skateboard for Xmas, I bought a Sector 9 Platinum Bomber for myself. I'm 45 and its been a good 15 years since I did any serious skating. I'm looking for some advice from any fellow UE amps out there who skate. How do do you build the pumping momentum with one arm? I always seem to end up slowing down instead of speeding up. Any suggestions? After seeing CY's deck on the Tracker site and veiwing his website I decided the 44" Bomber was too long and purchased a CY deck yesterday. I can't wait to get it and outfit it. I found a site out here in Colorado that had Turner Avilas on sale for $18 a pair and decided to try these. I'm going to pair them with some 150 MM Randal II's and see how they work out. After I get the pumping figured out I'll think about tackling skogging, but not until I get some Crashgear first. ;-)
Cheers,
Jack Merica
Aurora, Colorado
God rides a longboard.
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Distance Pump and Carve
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On 1/2/2005
munson and peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Hey pumpers-
For the past several years, we have been studying the art of pumping and perpetual carving over longer stretches of terrain. While our current best is a continuous 15 mile ride without touching foot to ground, our current goal is to ride the entire 27-mile Burke Gilman Trail in Seattle strictly by pumping. We’ve tried to find others doing similar Gesmer-esque experiments, haven’t had much luck.
It would be great to talk to anyone doing this, or anyone interested in joining us for a ride sometime.
Please check out www.pavedwave.com to see what it is we’re doing.
Peace out homies…
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Chris Y.
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On 12/23/2004
Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(130.13.nnn.nnn)
gotcha, C. I'm always on the lookout for shapes I like that work with my size 12 narrow & flat gunboats. 36 x 9 sounds great. I've got a Loaded Pintail that fits that bill, with lots of pop! I'd like something like that with a bit more width for my rear foot.
AFA "footage" (pun intended), we'll have some of that for you once our Christmas present gets here from my in-laws! ;-D
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays...Skate Safe and Be Well.
The Michael's in AZ
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Steve in AZ.
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On 12/21/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
I have for immediate delivery, more .... just go to www.tailtap.com or if he's out, try www.chrisyandall.com :D
I think the requests around the planet for this deck is admirable. I built it for smaller feet since it was the first in my fleet. 36 x 9.5 and 38 x 9 stiff flexers are my passion. I miss that Madrid/Hickey deck. It's the board that kept me pumping back in the 90's but I think I got something a tad better.... the 36"x 9.5 is perfect for my wide size 13"'ers. I've tried all those fancy turned up boards and stuff and I just like my mini tramp(concave/cambered) :D flex for bustin' down the sidewalk. as you pump up and down, it just makes sense to me to have the board POP.
I'd like to see these guys talking different pumpin' board designs show me their style a la video. (yea, get on the deck and show the pump behind a camera!). ON THE FLAT, GENERATED SPEED. NO CHEATING! If you can get me mpg's of mov's, i'll post them in swf format. email the stuff to chris.yandall@gmail.com ( i have some extra invites if you need a gmail account )
I love the yikkety yak over this niche of skateboarding. As long as my knee's hold out, I'll be rockin' down the sidewalk, bombing hills and making kick turns off the coping!
OTH, mixing up skogging and pumping for miles is a nice walk these day for me. ! it's grooovy! :D
cYa
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Greg-O's Pump
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On 12/21/2004 Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Whoa, there, G! Did you say Greens or Purples in 110mm trucks??
First off, the 110mm is the older style composite Seismic truck. From what Dan sez on his website, I'd be carefull about running the newer springs in the older trucks. I think he recommends AGAINST using the older springs in the newer trucks, but I'm not sure about the other way around. Running the Greens or Purps in that narrow of a truck is probably going to be WAY too stiff, even at over 200#.
Second, if you're only running that narrow of a truck on the shorter board, the Yellow/Red combo should be just fine! I'm 190#, and that combo allows me to pump up to speed very quickly on the more narrow trucks. But I thought you were talking about a LONGboard, and that your Seismics were wider.
I think you'll find that having a truck that puts the wheels out to AT LEAST the edge of the deck, and preferrably 1/2" out from there makes for the best pumping leverage and traction. Chris Y. (see set-ups below) prefers an even wider truck set-up than that. I've recently tried a more narrow set-up on my TS board (Seismic 110 Silver front, SplitFire 108 spaced to 110mm rear with Grippins) seems WAY narrow, and I feel myself "tipping" over the edge of the board.
Finally, try a little something that works for me...
Using your same set-up, just add another 1/8" spacer to the truck. That gives you a little more leverage and a bit more "tilt" in your pump. But don't go too high!
C'mon by the house this Christmas weekend, G.O.; Chances are all of the neighborhood kids (and myself) will be out ridin' our new skateboards. It'll be in the upper 60's and sunny here in Scottsdale!
Oh, and that goes for anyone who may find themselves in the area this coming weekend. We'll run some TRAP times or some CyberSlalom.
-=S=-
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Thanks Steve
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On 12/20/2004
Greg Olsen
wrote in from
Canada
(206.172.nnn.nnn)
Thanks,
I have some new purple and dark green springs and will stick them in the 110 Seismics and see how that feels. I am gettting the hang of propelling the stiff board with counter rotational pumping but it is so graceless compared to downweighting pumping....
Grego
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Stiff flex pump & stuff
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On 12/20/2004
Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Greg O.:
Yup...I know what you mean about that little bit of flex giving you that extra push-back to your pump. Shorter slalom decks allow for you to get the same effect by pulling or pushing instead of the deeper leans with a longer or flexier deck.
To answer your question, at 210#, you've got to at least throw some RED springs on the back end of that bad-boy. If that's still too loose, put some reds up front. If that's STILL not giving you the energy return you're lookin' for, go to some greens in back. If that fails, then set up your board more like a GS board and try the Seismic in front and a Tracker Dart in back of equal width.
My three best PUMPERS are:
-Loaded Pintail, flex 2, RII 150's and harder Avilas.
-Chris Y. Sig, German Seismic 135 F/Geezer 135 o/s R, Gumballs 84f, 78r.
-Bozi GS36, Aluminum Seismic 155's 45*f/30*r, 74mm75a Amber Flywheels.
The loaded and the Bozi have the flex & the return pop, but the CYa makes up for that in a slightly shorter wheelbase and a sweet concave.
I still got me ONE more CYa in the plastic wrap! Chris...I think Tracker is out of them...you got any more, or are you just doin' the longer signed decks now?
-=S=-
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stiff vrs flex pump
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On 12/17/2004
Greg Olsen
wrote in from
Canada
(209.205.nnn.nnn)
I just built my first rigid board (post 193457 in Boardbuilding) and I am not really enjoying the ride. My pump was totally dependent on flex and unweighting but those don't work or occur on a stiff board. Pumping on a stiff deck is more about counter rotating the upper body against the lower. I have been able to so that on a very stiff flex board but on a non-flex board it is weird. I also tend to make my recreational turning quite deep and wide turns. With all the leverage of a wide, stiff deck I am at lock (Seismic trucks) right away without much resistance. I am up on the two inside wheels in fact. I guess in slalom one does not turn so deeply and the limitations of a truck do not come into play. You just angulate the ankles enough to get around the cones while doing the counter-rotation pump in the upper body. I never get a sense on my flex decks that I have reached any kind of turning limit though...more of a traction limit. Should I not expect the deep carving turns on my combo of Siesmics and a rigid board or do I just need heavier springs in the Seismics. The Yellow springs seemed fine on a narrow (LY AllStar). But I am 210lbs. I guess I am looking for pumping/basic turning/ set up advice. BTW Skogging is what I need to reduce my girth so I am in!! Unfortunately it is winter. We have had a warm weather repreive the last couple of days and I got to skate at lunch but it may snow again this weekend. I wonder if I lifted the back of my wife's treadmill up whether I could skate on it ..kind like surfing indoors all winter...
Thanks for any advice,
Greg
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PUSHING UP HILLS
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On 12/17/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Nick, thanks for the kudo's.
Someone get me on Oprah! :P
That's some amazing stuff you did there. And doesn't it seem logical that using both legs to push makes sense for long distances? I'm a bump skiier too and when you think of the fall line on the steep and deep and compare it to skogging, the relationship is similar. You work off the fall line straight down the sidewalk :D. I need to get some better videos on my techniques because I'm really feeling like I'm hitting the stride right on the money when I alternate on every push at around 12mph....
So, I'm heading down to the beach now. Sunny San Diego is in the 70's today and a beau day to smell the ocean.
As for pushing up steep hills... alternate your legs every push, stay as low as you can go and use your whole foot from toe to heel on each push, heel down first and then thrust through your whole foot to your toes. I'll get a video of this soon on how I do it.
You'll need some stamina :D That I can only recommend getting off the couch and going for long swift skogs.
I prefer to use the word "skogging" over "jogging" for the simple reason it's more definitive. skateboarding + jogging = skogging .
Whatever the case, doing it over talking about it is my preference. I'm available to talk it up with anyone. Just go to my site and let me know who you are and I'll call you! I need more skoggers getting jazzed about this aspect of skateboarding.
Here's my favorite set up. I'm selling personally signed boards produced by a famous local longboard company. 7 ply cambered/concave laminate.
Original trucks seem to be making me happy for those quick slashing turns at 2mph :D
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PUMPING exercise :D
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On 12/17/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Spamming the msg board today!!!
I get in shape skogging and offroad unicycling. WHAT A COMBO! Yep.. at the ripe old age of 50, i'm feeling like a teenager again! :D Old pic but I'm still digging the scene with a gangter's lean.
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"Cut The Jive And Jog" = Guinness Book World Record
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On 12/17/2004
Nick
wrote in from
United States
(66.87.nnn.nnn)
Chris -
I read your article Cut The Jive And Jog back when I was 11 years old. I learned to "Jog" soon after and have used my skateboard for transportation extensively ever since.
Jogging certainly came in handy last year, when I joined Jack Smith for the "Skateboarding Across America - On Board For Lowe Syndrome" trip from Oregon to Virginia. Being able to push with both legs was natural after 27 years of doing it, and helped make our 2774 mile trip a whole lot easier.
I'd like to thank you for opening my eyes to Jogging, and helping us achieve our goal of skating across the country in 21 days.
Do you have any secret techniques for pushing up steep hills?
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Skogging: Cross Country Skiing on your Skateoard
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On 12/17/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Hey Guys,
The whole skogging issue is in this thread for one reason. I love to pump and skog for exercise. I'll skog for about 200 yards and pump for 100 andd then go back into that glide.
Check out www.skogging.com at the bottom. I put up some recent video's where I show you can almost glide like a bird on the flats from your own generated speeds. In fact, on one video.. the birds seem to dig what I'm doing. I often head down to the north east mission bay area, mission beach boardwalks and mira mesa lake to catch exercise of this nature.
I love downhilling still and you can find me skating at www.powayskate.com and Memorial Park in Logan Heights, OB Skate and soon Encinitas.
I enjoy this message board since it's a great way to let people know that some of us die hard skaters like cliff coleman and myself keep stroking the pavement because the sport is a true love. And opening up different aspects of the sport will keep the sport alive in many different ways.
Getting air over the coping is just as difficult as switching feet over 15mph :D . think about it!
checkout www.skogging.com .
Cheers !
Chris Yandall
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skogging
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On 12/17/2004 Neil
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(217.154.nnn.nnn)
Oh so thats skogging, not sure about pushing with my left foot though. I can see road rash ahead
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Skogging along, singin' a song
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On 12/17/2004
PaulW
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(194.223.nnn.nnn)
Surely you mean "Skogging™ ©2004 CYandall International All Rights Reserved"?
As I understand it. Skogging is the name given to alternate leg pushing. So you push a couple of times with one leg, then push a couple with the other -rinse and repeat for hundreds of miles. Best tried at low speeds on a really long, wide and inflexible board. Or better still, not tried at all! Catch a bus if it's that far away!
Okay. I'm kidding.
Chris Yandall has a video cap on his site showing some skogging if you're interested. Google for Chris Yandall and I'm sure you'll find it.
P.
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Skogging
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On 12/17/2004 Neil
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(217.154.nnn.nnn)
What is skogging, i know what pumping is but this is the first time i have heard of skogging
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Flex & Skoggin'?
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On 12/15/2004
Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(130.13.nnn.nnn)
I'm predominantly a right-pushin' standard stance rider, and I've been this way since 1974. Recently, I've been working on getting my balance and rythym on my left-foot mongo push. I've done this on a number of my decks, and I've found one thing that remains consistent...
Flex is NOT my friend with my alternate push foot. My right leg and right foot have enough to worry about without having the board bend beneath it. A stiffer, flatter...and a little bit narrow, like Chris Y's deck...seems to work best for me. YMMV.
Now I just have to find a way to keep my left foot push from slowing me down instead of speeding up.
-=S=-
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decks
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On 12/15/2004 tom in toronto
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
Hey Chris Y
Just watched your video of pumping your deck...thats exactly what i've been doing on my 36" homemade flexdeck...but your deck-is it flexy? anyway , keep it rollin'
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Road Pumping Warriors
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On 12/7/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(63.196.nnn.nnn)
As long as the roads are nice and smooth and free of the dreaded wheel-lock-rocks(if you've skated a lot, you know what I'm talking about, it's like surfing and getting pitched over the falls).
I dont like being on the same road with cars. Too many freaks out on the road. So I skogged yesterday and will skip today because of too much work but will hit the skate rinks tonight for some shake-your-booTAY stuff.
Pump Your Deck!
Chris Yandall
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Pumping to work
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On 12/5/2004 Bugs
wrote in from
Japan
(202.32.nnn.nnn)
I sometimes skate to work, pumping all the way. It's 5 km (just over 3 miles), almost completely flat, and I've worked up a real sweat by the time I get there.
It's a real workout.
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wot's wot in pumping?
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On 12/4/2004
tom in toronto
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
Yo...love that skogging footwork...crazy... never seen that, gonna try it!
Checkin in from canada to say an envious hello to you Cali skaters...it rains here every other day and gettin cold...oh well summer comes eventually...
Love to know all about v-lam technology and pumping...who's riding what? What boards are best for a 210 pounder who wants to pump all the way to work? Is that remotely practical or just a fun way to ride? I can "pump" a bit on the shortboards but i really wanna see how fast i can go with a great-pumping deck.
any help greatly appreciated!
-tom in toronto
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.... wide trucks and skoggin / pumpin
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On 12/4/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
With the proper technique, I've been able to skog for years with a few foot-to-truck mishaps but both times, I was able to react quick enough to avoid disaster. As long as your technique is clean and you are aware that a bad step could occur anytime, it's not entirely out of the question to counter it.
I'm using 7"(inner wheel base) originals on my 38" special.
As for geting times who's the fastest in the world... I'm trying to work out a deal with the mission beach city officials to permit a contest on a choice boarwalk area. Wish me luck!
Chris Yandall
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How to Pump