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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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rock'n'roll
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On 2/12/2005 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
Hi guys...Weight/unweight is a more soulful feeling, I think, and sweet as pudding, but for speed, it's gyration all the way. Interesting fact about Michael Dong, too, with the core training. You definitely feel it in the abs if you're really doin' it. I first learned to gyrate when I bought some Carver trucks(unique swivel-mechanics all about gyration), but now I can pump faster on RIIs, and in both cases, it's mid-section rock'n'roll. Hey hey, my my...
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pumping / gyrating cruiser
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On 2/11/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
This custom "Bigger Bug" just came off the press, with a surf shape and a slight touch of camber. Perfect balance for switching between the nose/truck gyration riding Adam/PSR are talking about -- plus has the pump of a cambered performance deck. 7-ply, carbon-fiber bottom, 45" long, 36" wheelbase and almost 10" wide at the nose. Extra 'glass for stiffness. I've been wanting this deck for years and the guy to do it was right here -- Insect has done it again!! Steve Hopper is incredibly helpful throughout the design and build process, and his work speaks for itself. Gonna be a sweet year!
...and what better place to test it than the Redmond Velodrome!
http://home.comcast.net/~jampet99/images/circuitLongboarding.wmv
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Adam's post/Pumping/Gyrating
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On 2/11/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
Adam,
If gyrating is the key I'm sunk because I can't work a hoola-hoop (although 5 kids says I've got at least some skill at gyrating...). The weighting/unweighting along with hip twist seems to work for me. I'm not getting the speed but WTF I'm having fun just the same. I can keep it going I'm just not ripping along at a decent speed. I probably get up to about 7 or 8 maybe 10 mph. I'm keeping up with my kids on their bikes. At 6'2" 250lbs I don't exactly wiggle (after a few Beam and cokes I weeble real good!). I'll give the gyrating thing a try tomorrow. Long, long ago in the fog of times past I seem to remember a 17 year old kid who could pump his fibreflex by weighting/unweighting. Didn't even know I was doing it then, I was just running cones. Maybe that's it! Use a tight slalom course as a training aid. What do you think? Set up the cones about 8' apart and keep running them until I get the right rhythm that works for me. Okay, I've got shtuff to think about now...
PSR...
Please expand on the flex pumping theory that you spoke of in your last post. I ride a 34" CY deck with a decent camber that flexes very well. I've moved the rear trucks forward one full baseplate length. They have been moved back to the original position this evening for my experiment with the Randals tomorrow. Moving the trucks forward on the deck stiffend the board (no duh) and gave me a slight amount of tail to be able to kick through turns when not pumping. It also tamed the flex somewhat, which might explain the w/uw snap problem. I had it working before I moved the trucks... It wasn't fast but it was satisfactory. I'll see tomorrow. I hope I'm not boring you folks. Its great to have feedback from other more experienced (in this discipline) riders. Thanks for taking the time to answer my posts.
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard.
Skater liber vel moritus!
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Pumping/Gyrating
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On 2/11/2005
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(64.81.nnn.nnn)
PSR, You are indeed right.. both techniques produce forward motion. I learned pumping/bouncing first and later developed gyrating, and I must say that I prefer the latter for feel, superior acceleration, and higher top speeds.
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Pumping/Gyrating
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On 2/11/2005 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
Adam,the boards with a stiff flex, and foot placement over the trucks are boards that're Gyrated into propelling turns. Boards like Pumpkins,Loaded,or Summits are Flexed between the trucks and are Pumped to create propelling turns. Hence,a Pumpkin will not get a nice time in a Cyber-slalom, but my old Hobie Parkrider will. Funny thing, though, is that cambered, flexible boards can be Gyrated, and Pumped, and when one uses Both motions, go along very nicely. Stiffer boards can be pumped, too, but react more subtly. No doubt, newer, stiffer slalom boards can be pumped, but they're relying more and more on gyration. Hence the advent of concave on previously flat slalom shapes recently, and also the lessening of camber as well.
I'm not splitting hairs here, just noting the differences in body dynamics that create propulsion while your feet are on the board.
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More experimenting
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On 2/11/2005
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(64.81.nnn.nnn)
J-in-A,
From my own experience and observations, pumping power does not come from weighting/unweighting a la skiing or snowboarding. Rather it comes from gyrating your torso left and right with precise timing to propel the skateboard forward. The (arguably) best tight slalom racer in the world, LUCA GIAMMARCO of Italy, rides a stiff plank of a deck so flex/bouncing has nothing to do with his explosive acceleration. Other top slalom pumpers (Simon Levene and Gary Holl both come immediately to mind) keep their feet almost directly above their trucks, so again, board flex is not where they're getting their Go. And if you want to see truly impressive pumping acceleration, look no further than two-time Cyber Slalom Cup champion Michael Dong who spent all of 2004 training his core. Yep.. pumping power comes from your abs and obliques, as well as your lats and other stabilizing muscles that allow your upper body to twist independently from your lower -- quickly and powerfully.
My preferred pumping setup (after much experimenting) is a stiff Comet slalom deck that's flipped for rocker to provide a more natural footing as well as extra foot lock-in. On that note, don't discount toe blocks to keep your front foot on the deck during all-out dashes. My Comet is outfitted with 135mm Seismic trucks, the rear being detuned with a wedge. I run very light springs fore (original silvers) and one notch stiffer aft (original reds). I run ceramic bearings to minimize wheel spin-up drag, though Ninjas are nice in that regard too. Proper bearing spacers are an absolute must.
Wheel choice is all-important as you need maximum traction when you're trying to twist your deck into the tarmac! I use 3dm Avalons in 78a or 80a thought any good GS slalom wheel will do (Manx, ABEC11 Grippins). Do a search here on Dan Gesmer's gyrating piece for as good a description of the gyrating/pumping technique that's ever been put to paper.
See you in The Trap listings.
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More experimenting
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On 2/11/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
The saga of J-in-A's quest for pumping nirvana continues.
First to peters up in WA, (my Mom lives in Puyallup) my tunes of choice are Blue Oyster Cult "Agents of Fortune" and the "Heavy Metal" soundtrack.
Although the trackers are working well something is still amiss. Pumping body movements are getting better, but the energy transfer from the upweight snap is still not there. Time to go back to the lab and see what's on the slab. I see you shiver with antici... pation.
Okay back to square one with new trucks. I removed the tracker 149mm darts and replaced them with Randal II 150mm's. The rigid angled risers go back on with one change, the rear riser is facing forward to de-tune the rear truck. After running 149mm Tracker Darts with the wedges making them squirrelly, it should be interesting to see how the Randals respond. One last change, the 70mm 78a Krypto Classic K's have been replaced by Gumballs 81A in the front (thanks Chris in Longmont for the suggestion) and 78A in the back. Tomorrow is supposed to be nice (no snow). I'll try it out and see what happens. If it gels I'm off to the Denver Skate Park with it to see how I get along with the Snake Run on it. I'm sure there will be more labwork to do. IGOR... throw the main switch.
As for skogging... Let's just say its a pain in the ass. ;-)
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard.
Skate liber vel moritus!
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CYA 38" protos in AZ
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On 2/11/2005
Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(130.13.nnn.nnn)
Ya-ya! Me too, C.
-=S=-
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38* boards for testing purposes
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On 2/10/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.224.nnn.nnn)
that old song "it's not the meat, it's the motion" .
you could have the best pumpin designed deck but if you aint got the technique, you aint goin' nowhere.
pickin out a good line on the flat and maintaining a groove of moves in the pumpin slot is exactly what the doctor ordered!
from www.pumpyourdeck.com you can see my favorite motion :D and dudes, I'm 50 freakin years old :D
let's just say I love pumpin' my deck and thus I even invested in the domain name( click here ) and springin' for some video's online to get those in remote areas who are unfamiliar with what a textual description might explain .. a simple visual of the technique. i ain't saying i'm god's choice of spillin the "right way" on the screen, but i'm saying that just as in many sports like surfin or snowboardin', skiing ... there's a rythm of pulling off perfect back to back turns to keep you generating self-propelled speed without getting off your deck. every medium is different but there seems to be a universal constant that only your soul can bounce back at your body as you're crankin' it down the relative fall line at various speeds of cruising enjoyment.
it's damn cool! pump it til you break wind like it's never been broken before :D (ya it's a gas ..hehehe)
dude in denver(borauroa) wants a 38" prototype. email me! i got your number and want your feedback. i have a couple of more and I can make a nice deal for whoever else is interested.
the one i'm working with(newer 38") the sector 9 production boys is a little wider in the tail. it appears that slightly narrower trucks in the rear with a cambered/concave deck may be the future of "perfect" pump boards.(wedg'ing the trucks is key too).
Be Back Soon ....
Chris (i'd rather be pumpin' it than yakkin about it) Yandall
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illinois
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On 2/10/2005
bean-a-reano
wrote in from
United States
(216.89.nnn.nnn)
I have family in Warren which as I remember not too far away. I am learning both. And am stoked to go to a St. Louie race. Riding garages with gOAd and harmes has been great fun so far.
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Lodgepole !!ouch!!
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On 2/9/2005
Tod
wrote in from
United States
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
Jim,
I checked em out, and me likey!! I've been toying around with the faux concave
foam add ons and I just can't seem to get it right... been using flat Roeracing
decks since I started slaloming... I recently got a custom deck with just a hint
of a "scoop out" under my front foot and I love it... the Pig has this same sort of feel.
Hey,I'll try the narrower hanger in the front w/ the grippens, sounds like that'll work. I don't have any 169s....Yet
I put some Avalons on it and will try that next time I hit the "shed".
Bean-a-reano, I'm up north of Freeport almost on the WI border... I'm hoping there will be a slalom race in St. Louis this season, so I'll probably be down that way at some point...Do you pump tranny or cones??
or are you "bi" like me... 8^)
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pumping sewagte
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On 2/9/2005
bean-a-reano
wrote in from
United States
(216.89.nnn.nnn)
Hey Tod I live in Illinois also, Springfield. great to hear someone from the state. email me Maybe we can hook up for a session.
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re:Pumpable Skaterbuilt
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On 2/9/2005 Jim Richardson
wrote in from
United States
(67.100.nnn.nnn)
Ha... I have found the same thing to be true of my Skaterbuilt PIG... If you wanna turn it up a notch... throw a 169 hanger on the front.. try that setup with some Grippins... seriously... the center set design of the Grippins allows you to maintain plenty of clearance...... I am not sure what you'd need to do to fit a set of Avilas under there; but I have set mine up with Avalons (and ith MANX) all the way around and 169 hangers front and rear... I usually have a hard bushing next to the baseplate and a medium at the kingpin nut... The massive concave makes for a pumping machine... Skaterbuilt has GS and TS decks on the way .. hit their homepage to see em (and scoll down a little to see me running the PIG/Manx setup in a ditch slalom race :) would have doen alright if I hadn't overamped my first run and ended up bouncing off a utility pole haha )
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Pumpable Skaterbuilt
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On 2/7/2005 Tod
wrote in from
United States
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
PaulW,
No wedges just 9/16 risers and super loose trucks... A little push, two or three good arm swings and I'm roamin around the local street course to the strains of little kids yelling, "Get outta the way ya old fart!!"
Obviously, the top end is rather limited on this thing, but its proven to be good training for slalom. I've been doing laps around a pretty good size machine shed rehabing a tweaked knee and trying to stay halfway in shape through the winter, kind of like resistance training. The racing rigs ought to feel like toothpicks once I'm ready to pump one of those down the street again...
Kinda funny story...
The farmer that lets me ride inside his shed asked me what I was going to do when I first started going there. I explained slalom to him and that I needed to get my pump back in shape for racing. He responds, Here in Illinois, pumping is something that happens when the septic backs up :-)
I'm hoping he wasn't trying to be metaphoric...8^/ Later Tod
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Tod's 'Built
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On 2/7/2005
PaulW
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.19.nnn.nnn)
Tod> That 12" SB setup sounds near enough, dammit, to my own (I'm using SIMS The Wheel IIs though). Have you wedged the Indys? If so... how? I'm amazed that you're calling it an easy board to pump! -but I know what you mean about the momentum. It's a tank.
FWIW, I use a Fibreflex Mallard / Seismics / Hyper Stradas for transportation -nice, turny, pumpable combo. >Paul
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Responses to my posts
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On 2/2/2005 Alex
wrote in from
United States
(65.187.nnn.nnn)
I Just wanted to say a quick thank-you to those who responded to my posts. I appreciate your time.
-Alex
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@ Alex
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On 1/29/2005
Tod
wrote in from
United States
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
Alex,
To me this pumping thing really turns into a question of what are you willing to compromise on...top end speed, off the line acceleration, or maneuverability....?
It would be cool if truck geometries could be actively leaned out and wheelbase and wheel diameter could grow as you go faster. Kinda like shifting to higher gears on a bicycle. Maybe someday???
Although I have some nice slalom setups...
Oddly enough the easiest setup I have to pump on flat, and damn near from a dead stop, is a 12" Skaterbuilt pig w/ Indy 215s (bones hard bushings) and 65mm dubcons. (I should put a set of Avilas on it and see how that works?) . The 17" wheelbase and the indys geometry along with the truck load of leverage the wide deck offers make it easy to pump even though it’s the stiffest deck I’ve ever ridden. And once you get the big bad boy rollin the laws of physics keep it goin. LoL
I'm sure there will be a lot of personal preference type postings on this topic... I too am interested to read what others use to just cruz the flats with...
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Components for a great pumping board
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On 1/29/2005 Alex
wrote in from
United States
(65.187.nnn.nnn)
Everyone,
I'm interested in all of your ideas about what would make the best set-up for a pumping board. I know there are lots of variables involved, such as idividual rider weight etc., but I'm sure if everyone inputs their ideas, eventually there will be some general consensus as to which types of components will or will not work together to create at least, a good, if not great pumping system. Also, ideally the board should be fun and a good all around cruiser. I'm looking forward to reading all of your ideas.
As you may have noticed in my post below, I have not ridden in about 25 years, but I'm about to start again. Pumping interests me a lot (as does skogging), so I am trying to figure out what I am going to put together. My thoughts are based simply on doing some research, a little theoretical thinking, and a vague recolection of skating 25 years ago.
My novice ideas are as follows:
The deck should probably be resposive so that energy exerted into the deck will be used to propell the deck out of a turn, so I'm thinking at least a moderate amount of flexibility via possibly a composite material in combination with wood and with a camber in the deck, like an Insect deck or Loaded deck for example. It also sounds as though Chris Yandall has decks for sale that work quite well. Also, I'm not sure about deck length, but I suspect if it's too long it will be more difficult to get the energy response out of it due to its weight and size, for instance slolom boards tend not to be too long. I don't have any specifics about deck length yet, I hope you will. I'm guessing it's in the 35 to 45" range depending on rider height and weight. Shorter for better pumping, longer for more of a cruiser.
I'm not to sure about the trucks, wheels and bearings, but I'm thinking the trucks should be a quality, responsive truck like the Randal or Original trucks, I'm thinking maybe wider to keep the lateral movements under control, but no wider than necessary to do that. The wheels, I think should be sticky enough to keep lateral movement under control and a shorter profile may be easier to get moving and pump slower with, but a taller profile may go faster if you want to pump at higher speeds.
Anyway, those are my thoughts, I'm going to put something together and try it. What do you all think? I'm looking forward to reading all of your thoughts on system design. Maybe I'll find my ideas are completely wrong. What do you think?
-Alex
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Alex's Deck
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On 1/27/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(208.20.nnn.nnn)
Hi Alex,
I'm 45 and started skating again about 7 weeks ago. I'm 6'2 250lbs. I ride a Sector 9 Platinum series, "Bomb Hills, Not Countries". You can buy it complete and its a sweet ride. I bought my CY in the last month because I was having trouble pumping the S9. Its 46" vs 34" on the CY deck. The S9 Platinum Trilam is 38" with concave and camber. I haven't rode it myself but it looks to be a good all around board. Long enough to cruise and carve, with enough flex to make pumping manageable. I like my CY deck a whole lot. At 34" its just a the bottom of my comfort range lengthwise. I've been playing around w/ different wheels and risers and I've hit on a combo I like. CY is in the process of developing a 38" deck. I'll be getting one of those when they come out and passing the 34" on to my son at some point. Take a look at Landyachts, Dregs, Insect and Pocket Pistol boards too.
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard.
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Deck Design Questions
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On 1/27/2005 Alex
wrote in from
United States
(65.187.nnn.nnn)
Hi Everyone,
I'm planning on getting back into skateboarding after a 25 year absence, I'm 38 now. I'm not interested in doing anything crazy, but pumping and skogging interest me a lot, with downhill carving interesting me somewhat. I'd like opinions on optimum deck designs for my intersts and my physical build. I'm 6'-2" and 210 lbs, long legs.
I'm trying to decide on certain deck parameters such as length and flexibility. I think for my height and length of stride I would want a longer board with a minimum length of 38" or so. What do you think? Also, I am somewhat confused on the issue of flexibility in the deck. Would more flex be better or worse for pumping and how would it effect skogging? How does the flexibility of a deck effect general cruising and medium aggressive carving? Would more flexibiltiy be easier on the knees? Also, the board has to stand-up to my weight.
I'm leaning toward something in the 42"-46" range with 7-9 plys, a slight concave and a slight camber, but I'm open to suggestions. Would a kicktail interfere with skogging? Is this length too long for pumping?
Any suggestions on particular decks will be appreciated. I have checked-out Chris Yandall's deck on line, I'm concerned it may be a bit small for me, not sure though.
Thanks in advance for the advice,
Alex
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Still experimenting
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On 1/24/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(155.104.nnn.nnn)
I'm on to something. I removed the rigid angled risers on my CY deck and replaced them w/ 3/16" homemade rubber risers. I had some 8" x 8" x 3/16" sheets of rubber in my toolbox for some reason. Had them forever and finally found a use for them. Anyway after replacing the rigid wedges w/ the flat soft rubber the difference was definitely noticeable. I'm running 149mm Tracker Darts and the wedges made them really squirrelly, now they're very stable and plenty turny. The 70mm 78a Krypto Classic K's work terrific. I finally figured out the right movements and got the board geometry right. I can pump now. Man is that a good workout. Now for skogging. ;-)
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard!
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Insect BigBug and 3dm board
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On 1/23/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
hey tom, for me most any performance deck gets more pumpable with narrower trucks like 150mm or less, and smaller wheels like 65-70mm if you're on a lot of flats. That 83mm wheel diameter + 180mm truck requires a higher 'base' speed to keep an efficient pump. I use larger truck+wheel combos for downhill carving and go smaller hardware for flatland cruising.
Maybe others have better experience pumping on large wheels but I also find it demands the faster initial speeds...or when you're specializing for short, intense sprints (the new Abec11 77mm Strikers are a good example of this...)
Rode 3dm's GS Hybrid a while last year and found the deck incredibly pumpable for shorter distances -- super light & responsive. I'd expect their new models to be just as hot.
Still, that BigBug is a sweeeet deck! -- I got an Insect Dragonfly and a Roe CrossFire -- both from the shop in Seattle... before you buy that 3dm I'd try out the smaller hardware and see if it works for ya?
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3dm board
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On 1/23/2005
tommeakin
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.79.nnn.nnn)
hey,
i have a 44" insect bigbug, on which i have learned to pump, but i can only seem to pump at running speed upwards, is this normal? I dont think my board is really not set up for pumping though, i have 180 seismics and 83mill flywheels on it.
To get to the main point of my post: i am looking at the new 38"(i think) board from 3dm, and i was wondering how well that board would pump, as it would be a definate campus cruiser and i want something that is pumpable. Does anyone have any knowledge of this board?
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RE: Hey Jack in Bor(Aurora) :D
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On 1/19/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(208.20.nnn.nnn)
Your 34 works for big feets too. I got sz 13 gunboats and they fit that deck great. It'll also support 250 lbs and still flex back out of turns. You need to post some testomonials on your site.
I gotta agree Aurora isn't the most exciting place on earth. I'll bet its grown some though since you lived here. There's a housing and shopping developement where Stapleton airport used to be and Aurora stretches all the way down south to Parker and east almost to Watkins. They're going to build a minor league stadium on the corner of Alameda and Buckley Rd. just outside Buckley AFB. I don't get that at all. If I want to watch farm league ball I can go see the Rockies play.;-) Maybe they'll put in a garage for parking! I'm scouting hills in these new developements so I can ride them before the area gets occupied. Denver skatepark is pretty cool. My son and I have left some skin there for old times sake. I'm looking forward to visiting California this summer. My wife grew up in Burbank and I grew up in and around San Pedro. My brother in law skates too. His old Logan Earthski is hanging in his garage. Snow in the city is for the birds. At least in California snow stays in the mountains where it belongs.
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard.
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Hey Jack in Bor(Aurora) :D
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On 1/19/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(63.196.nnn.nnn)
Thanks for the kudos on my 34" . It is a cool all around board for smaller feets and it looks like it might be a good downhill board. I just attedded the Pumphouse contest in Poway. See the "slalom" thread and scroll back for pictures and the average board lengths were 30-34" .
I'm rounding out my deck line to hang in the 34-38" x 9-10 wide skogging/pumping tools.
BTW, I used to live in Aurora back in the early to mid 80's . But we called it Bor-Aurora . I'm sure it's more interesting these days and with you pumpers out there, you all should spice up the sidewalks/streets!
My oldest daughter is living with my first wife near downtown Denver. She's skoggin/pumpin too and frequents some skatepark near there. She's an avid snowboarder and is looking to get involved with the race scene. She has the go-got-it attitude daddy has even to this very day!
If you got a crew, I'm sure she'd love to hookup. Let me know!
cYa
< br>
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How to Pump