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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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My Pumpin' Decks
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On 2/14/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.224.nnn.nnn)
I skogged and pumped for an hour today down at cloudy cool sun diego mission beach today :D
skating vert, pumpin, skoggin and shaking it up with my babe is keepin me in great shape! I'm trying to break the 200 lb barrier. I'm down 80 lbs from last year and I owe it all to laying the rolling smack back on the cement.
Decks go out tomorrow for the both of ya!
Remember, I want serious feedback ! Let's do it here, since we're blazing the trail for new pumpin' designs with the rest of the skaters here. pumpin a flat board with your feet directly over the trucks/wheels is not as much fun as a deck that absorbs the weighting and unweighting while gyrating. i dont care how many contests someone wins with that kind of board, it doesnt make it the right fit for everyone. Not only are they flat, they are boring. i rode flat/stiff decks for years. boring yuck, spit, splatter, blah bleh. ACK!
I've got my newest proto nearly designed and Dennis at Sector 9 with Victor are kickin out some final shapes.
The deck I have now is basically the same as the one I'm shippin' to Steve and "jumpin Jack boraurora flash" but with a wider tail and wider rocker for my big size 13.5 feets. this deck was indeed a sweet sweet sidewalk spaceship!
hugz to all!
cYa
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Proto Money
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On 2/14/2005
Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
On it's way! Thanks, CY.
-=S=-
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38" Decks
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On 2/13/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
CY,
Done deal. I just paid my visa bill. It'll take a couple days to clear. I'll paypal you by Wednesday 2/15. Have a great Sunday.
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard.
Skate liber vel moritus!
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38" specials
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On 2/13/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.224.nnn.nnn)
OK these prototype decks cost me 25.00 to template out. I'll ship for free at my cost.
Give up your beer for a week and paypal me the amount, I'll ship!
Steve? Jack? deal?
here's a look at the goods. (note: deck only to ship ;D)
http://chrisyandall.com/38inchers.jpg
cYa
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skogging "pain in the ass" Jack
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On 2/13/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
Exactly! A real pain in the ass when you fall. Other than that I'm having a good time with it. I'm having a bit of a time getting into a rythym, but it'll come. That's where stubborness (and a good pair of padded roller-hockey pants come in). I'm looking forward to the day when I have it completely nailed. Waiting to hear back from you on 38" deck issue too. Thanks for your response and your time. Its a beautiful day in Boraurora. My son and are going out to scout/skate some locations today for longboardmaps.com. I'm taking my CY 34" to see how it carves hills and run some cones with it.
Cheers,
Jack in Boraurora
God rides a longboard.
Skate liber vel moritus!
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skogging "pain in the ass" Jack
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On 2/12/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.224.nnn.nnn)
pumpin' and skogging long distances is yummee! pumpin' gets repititious and mixin' it with a skog on the flats is a splendid exercise.
um. it's only a pain in the ass when you fall ? ;P
cYa
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RE: "pump" board
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On 2/12/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
PSR,
What you're describing is what I'm (almost) doing. It sounds like I almost have it nailed. I'll try the back foot presses/releases and face forward more. I naturally front foot steer except when carving then I apply pressure with both feet. I'm going to have to analyze my style somemore and then factor in my biomechanical problems. I'm gonna nail this. It took me two years to learn to 360, I guess I can learn to pump! I just bought some 400 speed film for another project I'll have my daughter play photographer.
I gotta go. My 12 year old is at a St. Val dance at the church and needs to be picked up.
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard.
Skate liber vel moritus!
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"pump" board
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On 2/12/2005 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
Jack, I had the use of a Summit Sidewinder a few years back, to play with and 'dial in' for a friend. It featured a huge Cambered section, just aft of center, and ideally placed under the rear foot. It had a very deep flex, but had a fairly stiff nose that was widest just ahead of the board's middle. I could easily get this board up to speed by pumping using primarily the rear foot, not all the much different of a move than what I use to float turns in powder with a swallowtail snowboard. Basically, I divied up the tasks between feet, using the front to steer(lean,toe/heel), and the rear foot did little leaning,but worked the camber by quick pressure down, with quick 'releases' of the camber's springiness. The result was that small uphill grades were just slightly slower sections in the road. The issue in terms of control, heading downhill, was in bending the board early, and 'squeezing' the release of the camber in the last half of a turn. I found that rear-wheel traction was the limiting factor in controlling descent speed, and once they broke loose, the flex actually made keep the wheels underfoot tough. 'Bounce-Chatter' would set in, bucking me as the wheels slid.
Using a bit of torso 'angulation' and twist (countered rotation early, as to anticipate the camber's tendency to 'unload' energy quickly) let me steer deeper while working the pump timing.
My lead shoulder lifts and also turns to 'face the turn' in heelside turns as the heel of the rear foot drives the pump.
The rear shoulder lifts, and I let the elbow drive forward as I pump through the toeside turn, and I'm almost on tip-toe midway through the turn.
There's a cadence to this, and it's important to try to keep the shoulders more-or-less facing the direction of travel, and using only as much torso-to-hip twist as your back and/or personal level of flexibility can deal with. Twist too far, and you're out of sync very quickly. Equally important is the quickness of the pressure the rear foot applies; slower pressure yeilds slower acceleration; Quick release often means you're upping the tempo of the transition from one turn to the next. Remember to lead the steering with front foot, especially on inclines or in speed control situations. (Funny thing that,Turning Early is the key to both decelerating turns, and Racing turns).
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rock'n'roll
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On 2/12/2005 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
Hi guys...Weight/unweight is a more soulful feeling, I think, and sweet as pudding, but for speed, it's gyration all the way. Interesting fact about Michael Dong, too, with the core training. You definitely feel it in the abs if you're really doin' it. I first learned to gyrate when I bought some Carver trucks(unique swivel-mechanics all about gyration), but now I can pump faster on RIIs, and in both cases, it's mid-section rock'n'roll. Hey hey, my my...
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pumping / gyrating cruiser
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On 2/11/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
This custom "Bigger Bug" just came off the press, with a surf shape and a slight touch of camber. Perfect balance for switching between the nose/truck gyration riding Adam/PSR are talking about -- plus has the pump of a cambered performance deck. 7-ply, carbon-fiber bottom, 45" long, 36" wheelbase and almost 10" wide at the nose. Extra 'glass for stiffness. I've been wanting this deck for years and the guy to do it was right here -- Insect has done it again!! Steve Hopper is incredibly helpful throughout the design and build process, and his work speaks for itself. Gonna be a sweet year!
...and what better place to test it than the Redmond Velodrome!
http://home.comcast.net/~jampet99/images/circuitLongboarding.wmv
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Adam's post/Pumping/Gyrating
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On 2/11/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
Adam,
If gyrating is the key I'm sunk because I can't work a hoola-hoop (although 5 kids says I've got at least some skill at gyrating...). The weighting/unweighting along with hip twist seems to work for me. I'm not getting the speed but WTF I'm having fun just the same. I can keep it going I'm just not ripping along at a decent speed. I probably get up to about 7 or 8 maybe 10 mph. I'm keeping up with my kids on their bikes. At 6'2" 250lbs I don't exactly wiggle (after a few Beam and cokes I weeble real good!). I'll give the gyrating thing a try tomorrow. Long, long ago in the fog of times past I seem to remember a 17 year old kid who could pump his fibreflex by weighting/unweighting. Didn't even know I was doing it then, I was just running cones. Maybe that's it! Use a tight slalom course as a training aid. What do you think? Set up the cones about 8' apart and keep running them until I get the right rhythm that works for me. Okay, I've got shtuff to think about now...
PSR...
Please expand on the flex pumping theory that you spoke of in your last post. I ride a 34" CY deck with a decent camber that flexes very well. I've moved the rear trucks forward one full baseplate length. They have been moved back to the original position this evening for my experiment with the Randals tomorrow. Moving the trucks forward on the deck stiffend the board (no duh) and gave me a slight amount of tail to be able to kick through turns when not pumping. It also tamed the flex somewhat, which might explain the w/uw snap problem. I had it working before I moved the trucks... It wasn't fast but it was satisfactory. I'll see tomorrow. I hope I'm not boring you folks. Its great to have feedback from other more experienced (in this discipline) riders. Thanks for taking the time to answer my posts.
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard.
Skater liber vel moritus!
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Pumping/Gyrating
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On 2/11/2005
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(64.81.nnn.nnn)
PSR, You are indeed right.. both techniques produce forward motion. I learned pumping/bouncing first and later developed gyrating, and I must say that I prefer the latter for feel, superior acceleration, and higher top speeds.
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Pumping/Gyrating
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On 2/11/2005 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
Adam,the boards with a stiff flex, and foot placement over the trucks are boards that're Gyrated into propelling turns. Boards like Pumpkins,Loaded,or Summits are Flexed between the trucks and are Pumped to create propelling turns. Hence,a Pumpkin will not get a nice time in a Cyber-slalom, but my old Hobie Parkrider will. Funny thing, though, is that cambered, flexible boards can be Gyrated, and Pumped, and when one uses Both motions, go along very nicely. Stiffer boards can be pumped, too, but react more subtly. No doubt, newer, stiffer slalom boards can be pumped, but they're relying more and more on gyration. Hence the advent of concave on previously flat slalom shapes recently, and also the lessening of camber as well.
I'm not splitting hairs here, just noting the differences in body dynamics that create propulsion while your feet are on the board.
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More experimenting
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On 2/11/2005
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(64.81.nnn.nnn)
J-in-A,
From my own experience and observations, pumping power does not come from weighting/unweighting a la skiing or snowboarding. Rather it comes from gyrating your torso left and right with precise timing to propel the skateboard forward. The (arguably) best tight slalom racer in the world, LUCA GIAMMARCO of Italy, rides a stiff plank of a deck so flex/bouncing has nothing to do with his explosive acceleration. Other top slalom pumpers (Simon Levene and Gary Holl both come immediately to mind) keep their feet almost directly above their trucks, so again, board flex is not where they're getting their Go. And if you want to see truly impressive pumping acceleration, look no further than two-time Cyber Slalom Cup champion Michael Dong who spent all of 2004 training his core. Yep.. pumping power comes from your abs and obliques, as well as your lats and other stabilizing muscles that allow your upper body to twist independently from your lower -- quickly and powerfully.
My preferred pumping setup (after much experimenting) is a stiff Comet slalom deck that's flipped for rocker to provide a more natural footing as well as extra foot lock-in. On that note, don't discount toe blocks to keep your front foot on the deck during all-out dashes. My Comet is outfitted with 135mm Seismic trucks, the rear being detuned with a wedge. I run very light springs fore (original silvers) and one notch stiffer aft (original reds). I run ceramic bearings to minimize wheel spin-up drag, though Ninjas are nice in that regard too. Proper bearing spacers are an absolute must.
Wheel choice is all-important as you need maximum traction when you're trying to twist your deck into the tarmac! I use 3dm Avalons in 78a or 80a thought any good GS slalom wheel will do (Manx, ABEC11 Grippins). Do a search here on Dan Gesmer's gyrating piece for as good a description of the gyrating/pumping technique that's ever been put to paper.
See you in The Trap listings.
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More experimenting
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On 2/11/2005
Jack in Aurora
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
The saga of J-in-A's quest for pumping nirvana continues.
First to peters up in WA, (my Mom lives in Puyallup) my tunes of choice are Blue Oyster Cult "Agents of Fortune" and the "Heavy Metal" soundtrack.
Although the trackers are working well something is still amiss. Pumping body movements are getting better, but the energy transfer from the upweight snap is still not there. Time to go back to the lab and see what's on the slab. I see you shiver with antici... pation.
Okay back to square one with new trucks. I removed the tracker 149mm darts and replaced them with Randal II 150mm's. The rigid angled risers go back on with one change, the rear riser is facing forward to de-tune the rear truck. After running 149mm Tracker Darts with the wedges making them squirrelly, it should be interesting to see how the Randals respond. One last change, the 70mm 78a Krypto Classic K's have been replaced by Gumballs 81A in the front (thanks Chris in Longmont for the suggestion) and 78A in the back. Tomorrow is supposed to be nice (no snow). I'll try it out and see what happens. If it gels I'm off to the Denver Skate Park with it to see how I get along with the Snake Run on it. I'm sure there will be more labwork to do. IGOR... throw the main switch.
As for skogging... Let's just say its a pain in the ass. ;-)
Cheers,
Jack in Aurora
God rides a longboard.
Skate liber vel moritus!
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CYA 38" protos in AZ
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On 2/11/2005
Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(130.13.nnn.nnn)
Ya-ya! Me too, C.
-=S=-
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38* boards for testing purposes
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On 2/10/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.224.nnn.nnn)
that old song "it's not the meat, it's the motion" .
you could have the best pumpin designed deck but if you aint got the technique, you aint goin' nowhere.
pickin out a good line on the flat and maintaining a groove of moves in the pumpin slot is exactly what the doctor ordered!
from www.pumpyourdeck.com you can see my favorite motion :D and dudes, I'm 50 freakin years old :D
let's just say I love pumpin' my deck and thus I even invested in the domain name( click here ) and springin' for some video's online to get those in remote areas who are unfamiliar with what a textual description might explain .. a simple visual of the technique. i ain't saying i'm god's choice of spillin the "right way" on the screen, but i'm saying that just as in many sports like surfin or snowboardin', skiing ... there's a rythm of pulling off perfect back to back turns to keep you generating self-propelled speed without getting off your deck. every medium is different but there seems to be a universal constant that only your soul can bounce back at your body as you're crankin' it down the relative fall line at various speeds of cruising enjoyment.
it's damn cool! pump it til you break wind like it's never been broken before :D (ya it's a gas ..hehehe)
dude in denver(borauroa) wants a 38" prototype. email me! i got your number and want your feedback. i have a couple of more and I can make a nice deal for whoever else is interested.
the one i'm working with(newer 38") the sector 9 production boys is a little wider in the tail. it appears that slightly narrower trucks in the rear with a cambered/concave deck may be the future of "perfect" pump boards.(wedg'ing the trucks is key too).
Be Back Soon ....
Chris (i'd rather be pumpin' it than yakkin about it) Yandall
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illinois
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On 2/10/2005
bean-a-reano
wrote in from
United States
(216.89.nnn.nnn)
I have family in Warren which as I remember not too far away. I am learning both. And am stoked to go to a St. Louie race. Riding garages with gOAd and harmes has been great fun so far.
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Lodgepole !!ouch!!
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On 2/9/2005
Tod
wrote in from
United States
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
Jim,
I checked em out, and me likey!! I've been toying around with the faux concave
foam add ons and I just can't seem to get it right... been using flat Roeracing
decks since I started slaloming... I recently got a custom deck with just a hint
of a "scoop out" under my front foot and I love it... the Pig has this same sort of feel.
Hey,I'll try the narrower hanger in the front w/ the grippens, sounds like that'll work. I don't have any 169s....Yet
I put some Avalons on it and will try that next time I hit the "shed".
Bean-a-reano, I'm up north of Freeport almost on the WI border... I'm hoping there will be a slalom race in St. Louis this season, so I'll probably be down that way at some point...Do you pump tranny or cones??
or are you "bi" like me... 8^)
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pumping sewagte
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On 2/9/2005
bean-a-reano
wrote in from
United States
(216.89.nnn.nnn)
Hey Tod I live in Illinois also, Springfield. great to hear someone from the state. email me Maybe we can hook up for a session.
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re:Pumpable Skaterbuilt
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On 2/9/2005 Jim Richardson
wrote in from
United States
(67.100.nnn.nnn)
Ha... I have found the same thing to be true of my Skaterbuilt PIG... If you wanna turn it up a notch... throw a 169 hanger on the front.. try that setup with some Grippins... seriously... the center set design of the Grippins allows you to maintain plenty of clearance...... I am not sure what you'd need to do to fit a set of Avilas under there; but I have set mine up with Avalons (and ith MANX) all the way around and 169 hangers front and rear... I usually have a hard bushing next to the baseplate and a medium at the kingpin nut... The massive concave makes for a pumping machine... Skaterbuilt has GS and TS decks on the way .. hit their homepage to see em (and scoll down a little to see me running the PIG/Manx setup in a ditch slalom race :) would have doen alright if I hadn't overamped my first run and ended up bouncing off a utility pole haha )
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Pumpable Skaterbuilt
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On 2/7/2005 Tod
wrote in from
United States
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
PaulW,
No wedges just 9/16 risers and super loose trucks... A little push, two or three good arm swings and I'm roamin around the local street course to the strains of little kids yelling, "Get outta the way ya old fart!!"
Obviously, the top end is rather limited on this thing, but its proven to be good training for slalom. I've been doing laps around a pretty good size machine shed rehabing a tweaked knee and trying to stay halfway in shape through the winter, kind of like resistance training. The racing rigs ought to feel like toothpicks once I'm ready to pump one of those down the street again...
Kinda funny story...
The farmer that lets me ride inside his shed asked me what I was going to do when I first started going there. I explained slalom to him and that I needed to get my pump back in shape for racing. He responds, Here in Illinois, pumping is something that happens when the septic backs up :-)
I'm hoping he wasn't trying to be metaphoric...8^/ Later Tod
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Tod's 'Built
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On 2/7/2005
PaulW
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.19.nnn.nnn)
Tod> That 12" SB setup sounds near enough, dammit, to my own (I'm using SIMS The Wheel IIs though). Have you wedged the Indys? If so... how? I'm amazed that you're calling it an easy board to pump! -but I know what you mean about the momentum. It's a tank.
FWIW, I use a Fibreflex Mallard / Seismics / Hyper Stradas for transportation -nice, turny, pumpable combo. >Paul
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Responses to my posts
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On 2/2/2005 Alex
wrote in from
United States
(65.187.nnn.nnn)
I Just wanted to say a quick thank-you to those who responded to my posts. I appreciate your time.
-Alex
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@ Alex
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On 1/29/2005
Tod
wrote in from
United States
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
Alex,
To me this pumping thing really turns into a question of what are you willing to compromise on...top end speed, off the line acceleration, or maneuverability....?
It would be cool if truck geometries could be actively leaned out and wheelbase and wheel diameter could grow as you go faster. Kinda like shifting to higher gears on a bicycle. Maybe someday???
Although I have some nice slalom setups...
Oddly enough the easiest setup I have to pump on flat, and damn near from a dead stop, is a 12" Skaterbuilt pig w/ Indy 215s (bones hard bushings) and 65mm dubcons. (I should put a set of Avilas on it and see how that works?) . The 17" wheelbase and the indys geometry along with the truck load of leverage the wide deck offers make it easy to pump even though it’s the stiffest deck I’ve ever ridden. And once you get the big bad boy rollin the laws of physics keep it goin. LoL
I'm sure there will be a lot of personal preference type postings on this topic... I too am interested to read what others use to just cruz the flats with...
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How to Pump