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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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the secret is in the tail...
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On 7/1/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
...of the wicked the deck doesn't necessarily flex the most where the shape cuts in at the waist. the flex is redirected further up to about three quarters further forward towards the deck's nose. wheelbase is variable depending on wherever its drilled actually. it works real well at about 18" though i've raced it at something like 21" at la costa w/favorable results.
what i really like most about the way this shape has evolved is how many ways your feet can "dig" into this deck as you change position during the ride.
lately though i've been steppin onto other decks to get a feel for what is going on. one that really strikes a chord in me is the pocket pistol duane peters surf sacrifice. i really like what chicken (and whoever his deckmaker is) have done with his decks. simplicity has its virtue.
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The Wicked...
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On 7/1/2004 ss
wrote in from
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...that Alan skates probably has a wb shorter than 30". That board is just about made for pumping, isn't Alan? What is the wb of the Wicked, and what makes it such a great pumper (in addition to your skills, of course)?
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sikc bugs and othe rcritters
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On 6/30/2004 vaitus
wrote in from
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oh I git it now, just couldt'n pic myslf pimping with a 30" something wide stance...
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all pumped up
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On 6/29/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
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oh yeah you can just stand on the front truck and pump w/your foot in the middle of the broad wehn uoy wnat two do tha
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puping on randols
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On 6/29/2004 vaitus
wrote in from
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*while standing alomost directly over each truck* even on a long wb? sounds like a sinkbug...pls xplain
ps sory couldn't help it...
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spelling...
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On 6/29/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
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...was never my storng point.
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juicing with randals...
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On 6/29/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
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i find that randals pump quite differently than most other trucks. they really lend themselves well to working one truck against the other.
push your board to about walking pace and then while standing alomost directly over each truck try to act like our pushing the front truck towards the way your facing and push the back truck towards your back (do the opposite for the next pump). this is the simplest way i can think of describing it right now.
after a while you will get the idea and you can do this with most techniques, even parallel...
...hope this helps.
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Pumping
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On 6/29/2004 Neil Johnsen
wrote in from
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I have a Comet John O'Shei with Randell 150 trucks and Turner white Avalon wheels and i also have a Flexdex Stinger 36 with randell 150 trucks and Abec 11 70's Flashback 78a wheels. Bothe decks have Abec 7 bearings in the weels.
My problem is i still can't pump when going along flat ground even after trying for 6 months. I can push along and get a far speed going but as soon as i try to pump i start to slow down rather than speed up. Am i doing something obviously wrong? Has the set up on my decks got anything to do with it? Please help
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flopping...
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On 6/18/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
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...around is what you'd probably do after "scrubbing" real hard.
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scrubbing...
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On 6/18/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
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...is the appropriate term, thanks saz.
though it does sound more like the art of stopping by putting your head to the ground?
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Anti-pumping
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On 6/17/2004
Steve in AZ
wrote in from
(130.13.nnn.nnn)
I've been pumping for so long that my style has incorporated the pump "flow" in just about all of my racing now. So much so that I've been having a hard time making cones, especially if I gather too much speed at the top of the hill.
P.L. is right in that you can scrub speed with your rear wheels, and to a lesser extent your fronts. I had to learn to "un-pump". Instead of driving my front truck through each turn, I started...um...flopping.
Yes, flopping. The art of taking one's big flat-ass size 12N's and "flopping" them on either side of the board to turn, instead of pulling and pushing the surface of the deck to develop speed. Now I 'flop' my feet to simply 'turn'. Amazing thing is that my rear wheels seem to want to stay stuck to the road a little bit more, which was my big problem when I got too fast; I would power my rear truck right out from under me.
Flopping makes me feel good. That is, until I feel the need to pump.
-=S=-
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purging...
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On 6/17/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
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...just might be a discriptive name for the technique of removing speed while turning. i guess?
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actually there is...
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On 6/17/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
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...a technique that would be considered the opposite of pumping. it is a way to sap energy from each turn and its just a matter of where you throw your weight into the turn. in this case you do so just past the apex of the turn as if you would do just as you were going into a slide but at the last moment actually allowing the board to follow through the turn just before it breaks away into a full on slide.
easy to conceptualize but tough to actually perform especially when you consider that your real objective is to get through the course as fast as you possibly can while racing. i guess its just a matter of self control.
try it some time, bugs. as with the usual practice of creating propulsion this technique is also developed through its own sense of rhythm.
hth
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Pumping in reverse
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On 6/17/2004 Bugs
wrote in from
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If you can pump, you know that pumping involves putting a lot of energy into propelling the board forwards. But can you put this energy in so as to slow the board down instead of propelling it forwards?
Pumping is a bit like swinging on a swing. On a swing, it *is* possible to slow yourself down by shifting your weight in the opposite way that you normally do. Anybody tried this on a skateboard?
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psycholloyd
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On 5/24/2004 cfavero
wrote in from
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if any one has ever seen alan pump,its one word,FLOW.i have the priviledge to skate with this cat and he has been a total influence for me for like,what?20 years.cf
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Pumper
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On 4/29/2004 SJ Ryan
wrote in from
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Heh, yea i have been watching that bearing forum, i guess i caused quite a stir when i questioned ron's motives on slamming pleasure tools. i can't wait to see what the outcome of the bearing wars is going to be. for a steel bearing, im putting my money on the PT 7's even though they dont stand up to abec 3 ratings or whatever. i really dont think even for 40-50$ that you can buy a better steel bearing than that, let alone their 12$ cost. people may say, well you got lucky with a good set then-well, i own several sets, they're all fast, spin great, easy to clean, and i dont plan on throwing any of them away for a while, they're just that good. for ceramics, i have no idea-thats a rich man's luxury i suppose lol.
On the Bahne, I had my doubts on it's abilties due to it's 100$ complete cost, and even after the first dozen rides i didn't really like it. other than old skateboards and kickflippers, it was the shortest wheelbased board i'd owned. Personally, i learned to pump on a 36 inch flex deck, R-2's and krypto classics, after spending more time on the Bahne i found that it was me that was holding the board back. the longer boards i had pumped on turned much slower and the pumping action in turn, was slower. I would say the best way to learn to pump on the Bahne is to find a video of quality skaters running a tight slalom course. to maintain speed on the bahne, your cycles (pumps/minute i guess) have to be much higher than on a normal longboard- more of an aerobic activity than somthing fun to do. as for pumping on original trucks, i have yet to ride them, but by the look of the lean angles they seem more suited to carving then to pumping. when i really get moving while pumping a board, i find that the deck hardly leans at all, its more of a steering with your lower body against the grip of the wheels.
i have ridden the chief on randal r2 150's with gravity super g's 80a. what an unbelieveable board, great lively flex, and an awesome pumper. with my experiance on other boards with seismics, i think they would be a great match for the chief. i want that chief that i described, but unfortunatly money's tight right now ( just bought a 600$ set of wheels for my road bike). as ive said before Landyachtz make great boards and you cant go wrong with any of em!
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Pumper
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On 4/29/2004 silversurfer
wrote in from
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
SJ - the bahne and I have not gotten along too well, so far. I don't know why. I can actually "pump" better on my Original Freestyle 43, if I'm actually doing it right.
I was thinking of a bigger pumper, maybe something like you recommended to Angi;
"Landyachtz Chief, Aluminum Seismic 180 trucks , ABEC 11 78a Flashback Wheels, Pleasure Tools". Have you ridden a set up like that? How is it for pumping?
I may have to give the Bahne more riding time. Right now I just use the Original. The wheels and bearings from the Bahne are currently on my sons board. They work great on it.
Speaking of bearings, have you seen what your comments about "independent, third party bearing testing" have produced? Check out the bearing wars 2 thread over on the bearings forum.
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Pumper
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On 4/26/2004 SJ Ryan
wrote in from
(12.76.nnn.nnn)
Hey Silversurfer, not to seem like i stalker but i know from previous posts that you and i have the same Bahne black hill (seismic, rt-s?). this is actually a great board to learn to pump on. i'm not too good at describing the mechanics of pumping, but ive found this particualar set-up likes your front foot right behind the front truck and the back foot directly over the rear. the bahne may not have the top end pumping speed of a loaded or something like that, but the shorter wheelbase and snappy flex give you decent acceleration. so far i've pumped for 2 miles on flat ground without touching a foot to the ground on the black hill.
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the Wicked...
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On 4/26/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(216.80.nnn.nnn)
...was designed to provide an ergonomic fit. I'm still refining the shape trying to be able to eek out the maximum amount of energy from whatever was originally expended.
The first thing you might notice when standing on this board is that whatever stance you choose, goofy or regular (parallel works, but differently) your front foot's toes are lifted with a lower heel while your back foot's heel is lifted and the toes are low. The reasoning behind this is simple. If you stand with your feet shoulder length apart and turn either direction so your hip is at about a 45º angle... Do you notice what your feet want to do?
There is a crescent shaped shadow that you will see at about three quarters up the front. This concave area gets progressively steep toward the apex of that curve which acts as a foot hook.
The flame like wings make this skinny deck ride a lot wider but they are also actually wheel wells though the trucks are mounted too far back (for La Costa) in this picture. They also have differing elevations for variations in one's stance.
There is a partial "beam" that runs up the center which not only acts as a pediform/arch support, but also moves the flex from the skinnyest section to a point just below the crescent (or the widest part of the deck). To the untrained eye it may seem more like an evenly flexing deck.
This one is carbon made with an eight ply maple core that was a flipped out old rocker from '75. My latest one's will be wood core foam w/carbon laid up from scratch.
Some people take dismiss this thing as a piece of art. While another guy tried to claim that they had something to do with this deck's development. All I know is that this shape is a happy combination of me going crazy with a sander and then having the experience to realize of understanding just what might I have, but after setting foot on the very first prototype I have to admit that me and my buddy were stunned.
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Wicked!
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On 4/26/2004 SS
wrote in from
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
Tell me more about the Wicked. What is it made of? Size? Camber? It looks almost like a two piece deck. How exactly does it work? What components do you use on it? What type of skating do you do with it?
BTW, Alan I think your SlideGear looks really cool, too.
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Psidlo's board
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On 4/26/2004 Dave G
wrote in from
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What Alan said!! To this day I like my Wicked as well as any other of my 20 slalom decks for pumping on flat!!And that circular thangy will make you Whacky
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Oh and your board is WICKED!
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On 4/26/2004 SS
wrote in from
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
psYchOLoyd, I weigh about 170 lbs. if that helps.
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Learn to Pump Board
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On 4/26/2004
SilverSurfer
wrote in from
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
psYchOLoyd - Thank you very much for your response. You are always very helpful.
I don't want to paint you into a corner or anything but I am close to purchasing two complete set ups. I want one to learn pumping on and one to learn sliding on.
If you could provide specific recommendations for deck, trucks and wheels it would be very helpful. I have a few ideas but I cant make up my mind.
I know you make your own boards and that they are awesome. I'm afraid that my craftsmanship is not up to par. For right now I am going to have to go with store (internet) bought.
If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. I really want to learn to pump my board better. I did read the article by Dan Gessmer. It help some but was kind of technical. psYchOLoyd's tips are great and I am working on it. I think I might need a board with a little more flex and maybe some camber, right? But what exactly?
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pumping unleaded
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On 4/26/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
For the ultimate pumping experience: This would be different for everybody. Personal preference not withstanding - height weight and physical makeup are major determing factors, yada, yada, yada...
To learn on: A deck with about .5" to 1" of flex when fully weighted so a maybe a medium stiffness for the riders weight would be my recommendation. Turny trucks that won't allow the wheels to bite, some fast bearings and firm grippy wheels (mushy wheels may be somewhat of a drag depending on conditions).
A deck with a shorter wheelbase would help you with part of the experience: that of "twisting" one truck against the other. Almost like trying to make one towards the left while forcing the other one in the opposite direction. You do this back 'n forth at slower speeds till you gain some momentum.
This is what I'm using now...
My deck is so aptly named the Wicked because that's what people would always seem to say whenever they got their hands on it. Now I see that someone's came along and is now using that as their company name. Hope they do well with it (it's a tough one to live up to).
A good way to learn how to pump on flat ground has a two step approach. First you want to learn how to go in circles one way, facing inward for example (looking towards the center of the circle). Then later on, the second step is to learn this facing the other way, like facing outwards (or facing away from the center of the circle).
You'll want to push a little to start riding in a circular path covering an area about the size of half a tennis court. As you are circling try driving your board to do a smaller arc but then "kick out" at the same time by putting more weight onto the turning board essencially pushing the board outward (away from the center of your circle). This "kicking out" works together w/the tighter arc by cancelling each other out and what you derive is forward momentum and remember that you're four wheels are maintaining contact with the ground this whole time.
Once you can keep your momentum going in circles facing both inward or outward try doing figure eights and the switch between directions will give you a good idea of how to pump in a straight line.
This is the very technique I used to learn on my own and the same way I've taught everyone else along the way... right Dan?
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Ulitimate Pumper
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On 4/24/2004 silversurfer
wrote in from
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
What would be the best set up for an ultimate pumping board?
What deck, trucks, wheels and bearings would be best to learn pumping on?
What are you using now?
Can you give me any tips to help me learn pumping. I can sort of do it now, but I'm not quite sure if I'm doing it right. I'd like to be able to generate more momentum and speed, especially on flat ground.
Axiously awaing your responces.
Thank You -- SS
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How to Pump