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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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PUSH OR DEAD STOP FOR PURE PUMP RACES
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On 7/31/2004 tom
wrote in from
United States
(68.234.nnn.nnn)
I agree with both Chris and Gessmer.
If you werer going to have a separate race for just pumping aside from a skogging/push race then here is an idea.
From a dead stop, you are truly testing ONLY your pumping ability.
Since a separate pumping challenge would be all about pumping ability what about this:
No pushing, no ramp, no dead stop.
Four tick tacks and start pumping. OK, kit kat whatever. Or like Steve suggests you could "tick tack" (instead of push) like a maniac up to speed prior to the time trap?
That's a basic pumping related propulsion method and you can't cheat on that either. I kind of like this because it's a skateboard race based on propulsion where your feet never touch the ground. It would eliminate the lack of excitement and drama/entertainment value from watching a painfully slow dead stop beginning, and also eliminate the advantage of a super strong pusher who can just blast off.
Also what about a pumping relay race? Feet can never touch the ground.
Is that really lame?
Just a suggestion.
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Flat Land Racing
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On 7/31/2004
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
ok this is cool!
Slalom has the FCR, for flat land racing
it could be the FLR series.
I think you should have seperate events for pushing
and pumping and an unlimited event where you can pump or
push.
I would like to see a longer push race, too.
Maybe a mile or two or longer.
This course could also be used for an unlimited
race where you push or pump.
Time traps are good, but I would like to see
a traditional race with everyone skating at once
for the longer events. Adds more drama and excitement.
This type of racing will help to grow the sport of skateboard
racing. This is because it is hard to get into downhill or
slalom racing (for a beginer). This will allow anybody
with a skateboard to give racing a shot, even if their
skills are not that advanced.
Of course timed events allow people from all over to
compare times on the forums, kind of like cyber slalom.
So that's cool, too.
I wonder what the record for a 1 mile flat land race,
unlimited push or pump, would be?
What about a 2 mile race?
There have been some interesting longer push races listed on
the contest calendar. Like the Portland Pusher and the NYC
Central Park race, both of which are 7 mile push (or pump)
races. I would like to see some shorter push races of the
same type. I think it would be ok to have some mild hills
on a longer course, too. Since it would be hard to find
a completely flat longer course.
It would be cool to see skateboard manufacturers produce
specialized equipment for these racing diciplines.
And of course, the same equipment would be really
good for fast cruising, also.
Just my .03 cents
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Pumping speed trap; Estimated best speed
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On 7/31/2004
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
United States
(24.21.nnn.nnn)
The Chronocone 2004 timing system has a built-in speed trap where the distance is entered and the time across the speed trap gives the speed.
The speed trap distance can be measured in meters and the speed given in KPH OR
the speed trap distance can be measured in feet and the speed given in MPH
As has already been mentioned, the conversion factor is 60MPH = 88 feet per second (one of those conversions that are memorized in engineering school).
The conversion for KPH (Kilometers per hour) to meters per second (mps) is:
1m/s = 3.6 KPH [ because 3600 s/H ; 1000m / Km ]
The best cyberslalom time is 8 seconds, which is 22 feet per second (15MPH) average over the 174 foot course. I'd estimate the the finishing speed is closer to 35fps , or about 24MPH.
So my guess is that we will see speeds around 25MPH for the fastest pumpers.
-- Pat
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THREAD PUMPIN
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On 7/30/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Wow. Some good meat and potatos in getting details worked out. 44' in one sec for 30mph is mindboggling on the flats. I'm thinking my 34" x 9.25 for my big size 13 feet works best for both skoggin and pumpin. Heavy boards and superwide trucks don't work for me. Chaput's big green wheels so far are pretty sweet for recreational skoggin and pumpin and I'm sure the guys that are totally into shaving millesecs off of elapsed time will come up with freespining axel designs and the likes with trucks that crank a clean 45'ish degree arc etc ...
I agree the two disciplines are worlds apart but imagine creating a race where both of them are required around an oval in alternating laps or whatever permeation we all dream up. It will be interesting to see what the industry standard deck for both skogging and pumpin will evolve into. We just need some good contests to come together and determine what shreds the best on the flats. It might be refreshing for the downhillers to take a serious look at flatland skating techniques. Overall it will most likely increase the growing numbers of skaters that would rather try this venue of skateboarding in place of the ollie freaks and flair air trends and for veteran skaters another reason to skateboard.
I'd like to get video of other people skoggin and pumpin on my sites. Please email mpgs. movs, etc about the same movie dimensions(width/height) you checked me out stroking the pavement.
I'm diggin the energy and really want to get on the boardwalk with fellow pumpers and skoggers.
Email me and let me know if you want to hook up.
PUMP YOUR DECK BABY !!!!!
C YA
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Online The Trap Ranking
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On 7/30/2004
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(66.121.nnn.nnn)
Steve in AZ, The online ranking page you wanted for The Trap is ready. Let me know when you finalize the rules and I'll replace the temporary ones I cobbled together.
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Campaign funds
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On 7/30/2004
Candidate in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(130.13.nnn.nnn)
Ur...uh, hi.
Will you support me in this election year by providing me with a simple timing system? Dual 6' tape start/stop with a reset button, 50' of wire.
Anyone? How 'bout after the slalom season?
I've already got wheels comin'.
-=S=-
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I accept the nomination
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On 7/30/2004
President of Speed...in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(130.13.nnn.nnn)
You got it, Chris. Maximum Velocity. Period.
I did the calcs. at work on paper; they were simple enough. I wanted to make sure that it was easy enough to convert a raw time into MPH easily, and I think 44' is perfect.
Approach: Straight-line. Not many venues have what it takes here, but I can't see an oval or figure-8 doing anything but slowing down the effort.
Min/Max Start distance: How about NO MINIMUM and NO MAXIMUM? Too little or too long of a start distance would both only slow the rider at the trap. I say let the skaters decide and keep this simple. That said, I'm sure that after folks begin to record their fastest times, we'll start to see a standardization of starting distances. Hehe...even on Bonneville, no one cares how long or how short of a distance it took for you to get up to speed.
I'm content with leaving things as they are for now. The more rules you impose, the more those rules can be mis-interpreted. How long did it take to finally get that "One foot on the ground in the starting box with the clock starting as your front wheels pass the start line" for C.S.??
I'm hoping that my fellow speed-pusher-and-pumper-freaks across this country...nea, the WORLD...will accept the challenge and begin to run "The Trap". Get back to this forum with your preferred start distance findings and anything else you have to offer.
Thanks to CC, Dan G., Chris Y., and that "exited as a puppy" Eric "silversurfer" for getting me started with this.
Now go skate.
-=S=-
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I like where his is going...
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On 7/30/2004
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
This is an election year. I nominate Steve from AZ to write the rulebook. He's only a few commitments away. 44 feet evenly divides 5280 feet into 120, which is evenly divisible by 60. That's a pretty good distance. Long enough for accurate timing, short enough so as not to tire one out. The approach should have a generous minimum distance so as not to require quick acceleration. The real test as I understand it, is maximum speed.
Longer distance should be covered in a straight line or on a figure 8, as an oval or loop would tend to favor regular or goofy footers.
I was looking at a little chart that I did in Excel:
44' in 1 second = 30mph
44' in 2 seconds = 15mph
44' in 3 seconds = 10mph
44' in 4 seconds = 7.5mph
mph = 30 / secs
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Skogging vs. Pumping races
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On 7/30/2004 Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Yes, toddc. I agree that these disciplines need their own contests or measure of expertise. Hill climbs (like at the Gathering each year) are great pumping contests. Skogging, one-foot or two-footed pushing would be more of a timed distance thing.
I'm proposing a unified flatland speed record standard REGARDLESS of how you get there. How fast can you get that thing going under your own power? You can push, skog, pump, paddle, blow or fart your way up to speed, it don't matter (but fire or combustion in any form is out)! In fact, that will lead contestants to try different ways. Fine.
We just need to standardize the parameters of an official contest. Nothing has yet been set, but keeping it simple is imparative.
-The speed trap should be 44' long.
-There should be an area after the trap in which to slow down or turn safely.
-There should be a minimum distance (all flat) on which to approach.
-There MAY be a maximum build-up distance, but I don't think it's neccessary for such a "sprint" style event. How much flat space would someone really need?
Everything else is up to debate until I can draft a comprehensive set of universally accepted parameters. Right now, we're just throwin' out $h!+ and seein' what sticks.
-=S=-
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skogging vs. pumping
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On 7/30/2004 toddc
wrote in from
United States
(68.121.nnn.nnn)
Very different disciplines that need separate "race" formats - let's not confuse them...
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Spectators of the SPSFSR
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On 7/29/2004 Steve in AZ (very flat where I am)
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
...would see most of the crashes in spectacular fashion before or after the trap.
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Self-propelled Skateboard Flatland Speed Record (SPSFSR)*
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On 7/29/2004
Steve (the speed instigator) in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Hehe...I knew it wouldn't take too long to hear from DG and CC on this one.
Actually, since skoggin' is a way to push, I just figured pushing to be part of getting up to speed; at least for trying to set a "top speed", where your fastest MPH is the desired outcome. Pumping from a dead stop is possible but is also a lot easier on a 24" Bahne with HiJackers then on a board that would generate higher speeds (and more stability) above 20mph.
I like the "one push" start idea, but I think that would be better for a pumping contest vs. just going fast. Since the best pumpers can easily out-speed their fastest push, I thought it best to leave it up to the contestant as to how to get up to speed prior to the time trap (which I also agree is the best way to get a time). Kinda like scissors-jump vs. Fosbury Flop. Whatever gets you there.
I have yet to mark the distance in which I've generated "top speed", but the minimum start distance should be long enough to accommodate both pushers and pumpers. The Trap shbe SHORT, but not too short...say, a distance that's easily divided into 5280'/one mile...say either 44 or 88 feet (1/120th or 1/60th of a mile, respectively). If you consider that the standard Cyber Slalom course is 174', covering that in 4.00 seconds (176') would result in an approximate speed of 30.00 MPH.
Using either a 44' or an 88' trap gives a good viewing area for spectators & an easy place to set up even the most basic of timing systems. It also gives a Standard (much like what CyberSlalom has become) that can be practiced world-wide.
As with everything, the devil is in the details. It was only two years ago that the CS was standardized from start to finish. Things like running the trap in BOTH directions to eliminate the wind or pitch factor is possible.
I think this may be the beginning of a new benchmark.
-=S=-. You heard it from me first.
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Skogging
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On 7/29/2004
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(66.121.nnn.nnn)
Chris Yandall, Great posts on Skogging, nice video clip too. 21mph?! You're flying. I rode the Mission Beach boardwalk hundreds of times on my cruiser bike when I lived in PB but it was an off period for me skateboard wise.
Your feet-facing-forward stance is what alpine snowboarders call "high angles", aka 90*/90*. I've been pumping the flats almost exclusively during the past year or two but my stance is probably closer to 80*/80*. Have you tried ceramic bearings yet?! They made a huge difference for me. I also use a rockered deck for getting excellent foot lock-in and for getting a bit lower to the ground to ease pushing.
My deck of choice is a flipped Comet Don O'Shea stiff flex. 78a 3dm Avalons and original Seismics round out the setup. I run the original stiff gold springs in the rear for better power transfer, though I'm sure I'm not approaching 21mph. Do you ever slip out on the boardwalk sand?
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Getting Pushy
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On 7/29/2004
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
I'd prefer to see one push. One foot on the board, one foot on the ground. As soon as the foot on the ground is lifted, neither feet are allowed to touch the ground again. You can't drag the push foot as a way of circumventing the "one push" rule.
I understand the "pureness" of no pushing but it at the end of day, starting without any pushes is unnecessarily slow and doesn't really add any excitement or drama or. I say take one push and start pumping like a madman.
If you didn't want there to be any pushes, you could start on a small ramp but I'd rather just see one push.
The other question might be, "how do we time this"? A radar gun may produce some false results because of all of the arm flailing. It seems as if we'd be looking at an elapsed time over a known distance (speedtrap?). Then the question becomes, "how far from the start do we set the speedtrap"?
I say "build it and they will come". Con Fluitt into adding a friendly sideshow to the other 4 disciplines in Colorado. Chris, go out and figure out how far it takes you to get up a head of steam. Ball park the distance and comit to that number of yards/meters for the start. Use a good length distance so that mph/kph can be easily calculated based on elapsed time. I'll make a nice big self-serving trophy for the First Annual Gumball Rally and Dan can give out a large cash prize 8-)
Sign me up. I want to be #11.
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Flatland Unassisted Speed Record
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On 7/29/2004
Dan Gesmer
wrote in from
United States
(172.152.nnn.nnn)
Let's make this interesting...
No pushing allowed. As in, truly starting from a dead stop, testing pure pumping skills and nothing but that!
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Flatland Un-assisted Speed Record
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On 7/29/2004 Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Huh...Y'know, Chris, I don't know if one of those records exists.
Fastest speed recorded from a dead stop, self-propelled on a skateboard, unassisted within a one mile distance.
You could push or skog up to 20 mph or so, and then pump to max. velocity.
...all on good wheels, of course. Let's take this to the Pumping or Riding Techiques forum.
-=S=-
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skoggin the flats
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On 7/29/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(63.196.nnn.nnn)
one day while skoggin', a segway pulled up next me and the gent says "did you know you are going 21mph?". I was surprised. Never took the time to even think about measuring speed. So we tooled along together about 1/2 mile chatting away while passing joggers, bikers and skateboarders. Dudes, it's a great sk8Rsize. Super low impact on the joints if you use my technique that I've groomed through the years.
So you get the idea around 21mph could be an average skogging speed. If there was a world speed record on the flat from generated speed, it might be in the high 20's low 30's to hazard a guess. I'll explore that avenue.
Cheers Mates!
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Skogging
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On 7/29/2004
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
thanks for the gumball endorsement, Chris Y.
I like them, too.
Did you get my e mail?
I am intereseted in your skoggig book and article.
Can you e mail me a copy of your skogging article?
Is your skogging book available to purchase?
Can you give me ANY more info on flat land speed techniques?
I checked out www.skogging.com - you are fast, looks very interesting!
Hugh R. - I am interested in the techniques you mentioned for
"commuter skating", also.
Anybody else have any suggestions for flat land pushing speed?
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Silver Surfer Tour duh Wheel
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On 7/28/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
I think most of the competitive wheels on the market in this arena are pretty damn close(kryptos' e.g.). "reinventing the wheel" ? remember the stokers? road riders? then OJ's? etc .....
Chaput's wheels are built on what worked in the past and what is better today. It is CLEAR that his BIG gumball is *right* on the money. I'm all over that wheel! I aint no competitor these days but I am a discriminating skater with 30 years of skateboarding mileage under my feet compared to most skaters alive today and just love to skate for the love of skating. Competition brings out the best and the ugly of those who want that *numero* uno distinction from the rest of the pack. With glory comes shame and no matter how much one person thinks they got their s#@! together over controversial actions, the fact remains that DOO DOO exists. woops.. why did I go off on this tangerine ? :D
Oh yea.. s#@! that speaks for itself. Chaput's wheels for this old fart who loves to skate the flats and generate speed need to find that soul roll.... that harmonic roll that the universe gives to us hormoned furRY fools that need that special kick down the road roll.
Chris .. you listening .. send me some more wheels!!! I got the chicks creaming over 'em !!! ;D
<skogging>ROLL ON!</skogging>
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Skogging/Commuter Skating/Push Racing
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On 7/26/2004
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
Jack Smith and Chris Yandall,
Thanks for the info!
Can you or anyone else give me anymore suggestions tips for a 7 mile
push race around central park in nyc?
What is better for this race a big wheel like a Flywheel in 76mm to 97mm or a Krypto race core in 76mm to 85mm? (if so which wheel, size and duro?)
Or a smaller wheel like a Flashback or 70mm Krypto classic? (if so which wheel, size and duro?)
What will be easier to push?
What will be faster on flats and mild hills?
Chris Chaput - you started to answer this on the vendors corner but can you be any more specific with recommendations on wheel size and duro for a race like this? Road surface is reported to be about average and I weigh about 165 lbs.
Thanks for any help you can provide!
Anybody?
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Messed Up Link
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On 7/25/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Sorry but my last embedded link was wrong.
www.skogging.com
I guess this thread should be in the "Techniques" category. But to help keep it in this one, this chick was telling me how much she liked my Big Green wheels tonight :D
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Use Your Noggin' Do Some Skoggin'
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On 7/25/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Y0 silver surfer, the best way to describe it is to see it in action. I put a video up on skoggin.com.
I just got back from a Mission Beach night run and even in the stange state I was in...I was able to blast from the coaster to santa clara drive without stopping. Approximately a mile.
You have to face your body straight down the fall line path and work both legs to accelarate the board. I did the best I could with quicktime editing attempting to depict a loop of the action. My son and I going out tomorrow to nail some more details down but essentially, it's the art of using both sides of your body to move forward. Again, a blend of skateboarding and jogging.
I'm almost to a point now where I can alternate one kick per side and literally make it look like I'm running with my board.
I'm actually pioneering this for myself as an exercise I can take to my grave. If I take a few prisoners with me, dudes .... they'll know that feeling of being a crosscrountry skier on a skateboard. :D
C Ya
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pumpyourdeck.com
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On 7/25/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Been pumping since the mid-70's and even to this day, fast gyration on flats turns me on more than downhill. I'd even make a small wager that pump contests would be a lucrative sporting event.
Pump It
Neat to see a thread on this stuff.
Chris Yandall
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pumpin
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On 7/24/2004
grinch
wrote in from
(63.195.nnn.nnn)
um, pumping just rocks. bombing, busting airs, sliding, any of those things that'll land you in the ER just don't do it for me anymore. maybe it's the surf influence. also, when i had to have surgery and stay out of the ocean for a month plus, it helped alot to start riding my carveboard and 56" w? exkates to get that feeling back. when i got back in the surf a few days ago, i was able to jump the learning curve faster than if i had not done any of that crosstraining. it's just fun exercise. a note to all, parking lots are where it's at. i've got a few favorites in the north bay area, though the stuffy old number crunchers get bitter at me even when it's completely off hours and i'm just carving around. anybody else know what i'm talking about with this? the parking lots for big businesses are sick, when they're on a hill. too flat is too flat. there's this one parking lot that i can spend along time going down , almost infinately, if i really tried, of course my legs would eventually give out, but the ammount of lines and power available on these pavement waves is just boggling. between runs, i look at all the possibilities and plan a run over there, need to maintain speed here, then carve all over down that part, pump acroos to the other section, and try to make the run last as long as i can, while still going as fast as i can. kindof makes me feel sorry for the people in florida. i still think for a longboard, the best all around trucks are exkates. sure, you can't adjust them easily, but they provide so much energy, turning, pretty stable, and there's that no wheel bite thing. well, enough of this, i'm gonna go turn my legs to jelly!
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economy
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On 7/21/2004 cfavero
wrote in from
(24.13.nnn.nnn)
i am finding the secret to pumping is many things.first,if it is speed,it is about starting off with some tourqy pumps,but as you accelerate,minimzing your arm and upper body movement,pumping uphill per say,you would want to exaggerate those movements to provide torque.but when you are buidling speed,three things,the stiffer the board,the shallower the turn radius and the more vertical you can pump,the more speed you will build.look at olson as an example.p.s.a wicked helps(thanks al)cf
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How to Pump