|
|
|
| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
|
| Topic |
Info |
|
Skogging vs. Pumping races
|
|
On 7/30/2004 Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Yes, toddc. I agree that these disciplines need their own contests or measure of expertise. Hill climbs (like at the Gathering each year) are great pumping contests. Skogging, one-foot or two-footed pushing would be more of a timed distance thing.
I'm proposing a unified flatland speed record standard REGARDLESS of how you get there. How fast can you get that thing going under your own power? You can push, skog, pump, paddle, blow or fart your way up to speed, it don't matter (but fire or combustion in any form is out)! In fact, that will lead contestants to try different ways. Fine.
We just need to standardize the parameters of an official contest. Nothing has yet been set, but keeping it simple is imparative.
-The speed trap should be 44' long.
-There should be an area after the trap in which to slow down or turn safely.
-There should be a minimum distance (all flat) on which to approach.
-There MAY be a maximum build-up distance, but I don't think it's neccessary for such a "sprint" style event. How much flat space would someone really need?
Everything else is up to debate until I can draft a comprehensive set of universally accepted parameters. Right now, we're just throwin' out $h!+ and seein' what sticks.
-=S=-
|
|
|
|
|
skogging vs. pumping
|
|
On 7/30/2004 toddc
wrote in from
United States
(68.121.nnn.nnn)
Very different disciplines that need separate "race" formats - let's not confuse them...
|
|
|
|
|
Spectators of the SPSFSR
|
|
On 7/29/2004 Steve in AZ (very flat where I am)
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
...would see most of the crashes in spectacular fashion before or after the trap.
|
|
|
|
|
Self-propelled Skateboard Flatland Speed Record (SPSFSR)*
|
|
On 7/29/2004
Steve (the speed instigator) in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Hehe...I knew it wouldn't take too long to hear from DG and CC on this one.
Actually, since skoggin' is a way to push, I just figured pushing to be part of getting up to speed; at least for trying to set a "top speed", where your fastest MPH is the desired outcome. Pumping from a dead stop is possible but is also a lot easier on a 24" Bahne with HiJackers then on a board that would generate higher speeds (and more stability) above 20mph.
I like the "one push" start idea, but I think that would be better for a pumping contest vs. just going fast. Since the best pumpers can easily out-speed their fastest push, I thought it best to leave it up to the contestant as to how to get up to speed prior to the time trap (which I also agree is the best way to get a time). Kinda like scissors-jump vs. Fosbury Flop. Whatever gets you there.
I have yet to mark the distance in which I've generated "top speed", but the minimum start distance should be long enough to accommodate both pushers and pumpers. The Trap shbe SHORT, but not too short...say, a distance that's easily divided into 5280'/one mile...say either 44 or 88 feet (1/120th or 1/60th of a mile, respectively). If you consider that the standard Cyber Slalom course is 174', covering that in 4.00 seconds (176') would result in an approximate speed of 30.00 MPH.
Using either a 44' or an 88' trap gives a good viewing area for spectators & an easy place to set up even the most basic of timing systems. It also gives a Standard (much like what CyberSlalom has become) that can be practiced world-wide.
As with everything, the devil is in the details. It was only two years ago that the CS was standardized from start to finish. Things like running the trap in BOTH directions to eliminate the wind or pitch factor is possible.
I think this may be the beginning of a new benchmark.
-=S=-. You heard it from me first.
|
|
|
|
|
Skogging
|
|
On 7/29/2004
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(66.121.nnn.nnn)
Chris Yandall, Great posts on Skogging, nice video clip too. 21mph?! You're flying. I rode the Mission Beach boardwalk hundreds of times on my cruiser bike when I lived in PB but it was an off period for me skateboard wise.
Your feet-facing-forward stance is what alpine snowboarders call "high angles", aka 90*/90*. I've been pumping the flats almost exclusively during the past year or two but my stance is probably closer to 80*/80*. Have you tried ceramic bearings yet?! They made a huge difference for me. I also use a rockered deck for getting excellent foot lock-in and for getting a bit lower to the ground to ease pushing.
My deck of choice is a flipped Comet Don O'Shea stiff flex. 78a 3dm Avalons and original Seismics round out the setup. I run the original stiff gold springs in the rear for better power transfer, though I'm sure I'm not approaching 21mph. Do you ever slip out on the boardwalk sand?
|
|
|
|
|
Getting Pushy
|
|
On 7/29/2004
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
I'd prefer to see one push. One foot on the board, one foot on the ground. As soon as the foot on the ground is lifted, neither feet are allowed to touch the ground again. You can't drag the push foot as a way of circumventing the "one push" rule.
I understand the "pureness" of no pushing but it at the end of day, starting without any pushes is unnecessarily slow and doesn't really add any excitement or drama or. I say take one push and start pumping like a madman.
If you didn't want there to be any pushes, you could start on a small ramp but I'd rather just see one push.
The other question might be, "how do we time this"? A radar gun may produce some false results because of all of the arm flailing. It seems as if we'd be looking at an elapsed time over a known distance (speedtrap?). Then the question becomes, "how far from the start do we set the speedtrap"?
I say "build it and they will come". Con Fluitt into adding a friendly sideshow to the other 4 disciplines in Colorado. Chris, go out and figure out how far it takes you to get up a head of steam. Ball park the distance and comit to that number of yards/meters for the start. Use a good length distance so that mph/kph can be easily calculated based on elapsed time. I'll make a nice big self-serving trophy for the First Annual Gumball Rally and Dan can give out a large cash prize 8-)
Sign me up. I want to be #11.
|
|
|
|
|
Flatland Unassisted Speed Record
|
|
On 7/29/2004
Dan Gesmer
wrote in from
United States
(172.152.nnn.nnn)
Let's make this interesting...
No pushing allowed. As in, truly starting from a dead stop, testing pure pumping skills and nothing but that!
|
|
|
|
|
Flatland Un-assisted Speed Record
|
|
On 7/29/2004 Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Huh...Y'know, Chris, I don't know if one of those records exists.
Fastest speed recorded from a dead stop, self-propelled on a skateboard, unassisted within a one mile distance.
You could push or skog up to 20 mph or so, and then pump to max. velocity.
...all on good wheels, of course. Let's take this to the Pumping or Riding Techiques forum.
-=S=-
|
|
|
|
|
skoggin the flats
|
|
On 7/29/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(63.196.nnn.nnn)
one day while skoggin', a segway pulled up next me and the gent says "did you know you are going 21mph?". I was surprised. Never took the time to even think about measuring speed. So we tooled along together about 1/2 mile chatting away while passing joggers, bikers and skateboarders. Dudes, it's a great sk8Rsize. Super low impact on the joints if you use my technique that I've groomed through the years.
So you get the idea around 21mph could be an average skogging speed. If there was a world speed record on the flat from generated speed, it might be in the high 20's low 30's to hazard a guess. I'll explore that avenue.
Cheers Mates!
|
|
|
|
|
Skogging
|
|
On 7/29/2004
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
thanks for the gumball endorsement, Chris Y.
I like them, too.
Did you get my e mail?
I am intereseted in your skoggig book and article.
Can you e mail me a copy of your skogging article?
Is your skogging book available to purchase?
Can you give me ANY more info on flat land speed techniques?
I checked out www.skogging.com - you are fast, looks very interesting!
Hugh R. - I am interested in the techniques you mentioned for
"commuter skating", also.
Anybody else have any suggestions for flat land pushing speed?
|
|
|
|
|
Silver Surfer Tour duh Wheel
|
|
On 7/28/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
I think most of the competitive wheels on the market in this arena are pretty damn close(kryptos' e.g.). "reinventing the wheel" ? remember the stokers? road riders? then OJ's? etc .....
Chaput's wheels are built on what worked in the past and what is better today. It is CLEAR that his BIG gumball is *right* on the money. I'm all over that wheel! I aint no competitor these days but I am a discriminating skater with 30 years of skateboarding mileage under my feet compared to most skaters alive today and just love to skate for the love of skating. Competition brings out the best and the ugly of those who want that *numero* uno distinction from the rest of the pack. With glory comes shame and no matter how much one person thinks they got their s#@! together over controversial actions, the fact remains that DOO DOO exists. woops.. why did I go off on this tangerine ? :D
Oh yea.. s#@! that speaks for itself. Chaput's wheels for this old fart who loves to skate the flats and generate speed need to find that soul roll.... that harmonic roll that the universe gives to us hormoned furRY fools that need that special kick down the road roll.
Chris .. you listening .. send me some more wheels!!! I got the chicks creaming over 'em !!! ;D
<skogging>ROLL ON!</skogging>
|
|
|
|
|
Skogging/Commuter Skating/Push Racing
|
|
On 7/26/2004
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
Jack Smith and Chris Yandall,
Thanks for the info!
Can you or anyone else give me anymore suggestions tips for a 7 mile
push race around central park in nyc?
What is better for this race a big wheel like a Flywheel in 76mm to 97mm or a Krypto race core in 76mm to 85mm? (if so which wheel, size and duro?)
Or a smaller wheel like a Flashback or 70mm Krypto classic? (if so which wheel, size and duro?)
What will be easier to push?
What will be faster on flats and mild hills?
Chris Chaput - you started to answer this on the vendors corner but can you be any more specific with recommendations on wheel size and duro for a race like this? Road surface is reported to be about average and I weigh about 165 lbs.
Thanks for any help you can provide!
Anybody?
|
|
|
|
|
Messed Up Link
|
|
On 7/25/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Sorry but my last embedded link was wrong.
www.skogging.com
I guess this thread should be in the "Techniques" category. But to help keep it in this one, this chick was telling me how much she liked my Big Green wheels tonight :D
|
|
|
|
|
Use Your Noggin' Do Some Skoggin'
|
|
On 7/25/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Y0 silver surfer, the best way to describe it is to see it in action. I put a video up on skoggin.com.
I just got back from a Mission Beach night run and even in the stange state I was in...I was able to blast from the coaster to santa clara drive without stopping. Approximately a mile.
You have to face your body straight down the fall line path and work both legs to accelarate the board. I did the best I could with quicktime editing attempting to depict a loop of the action. My son and I going out tomorrow to nail some more details down but essentially, it's the art of using both sides of your body to move forward. Again, a blend of skateboarding and jogging.
I'm almost to a point now where I can alternate one kick per side and literally make it look like I'm running with my board.
I'm actually pioneering this for myself as an exercise I can take to my grave. If I take a few prisoners with me, dudes .... they'll know that feeling of being a crosscrountry skier on a skateboard. :D
C Ya
|
|
|
|
|
pumpyourdeck.com
|
|
On 7/25/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Been pumping since the mid-70's and even to this day, fast gyration on flats turns me on more than downhill. I'd even make a small wager that pump contests would be a lucrative sporting event.
Pump It
Neat to see a thread on this stuff.
Chris Yandall
|
|
|
|
|
pumpin
|
|
On 7/24/2004
grinch
wrote in from
(63.195.nnn.nnn)
um, pumping just rocks. bombing, busting airs, sliding, any of those things that'll land you in the ER just don't do it for me anymore. maybe it's the surf influence. also, when i had to have surgery and stay out of the ocean for a month plus, it helped alot to start riding my carveboard and 56" w? exkates to get that feeling back. when i got back in the surf a few days ago, i was able to jump the learning curve faster than if i had not done any of that crosstraining. it's just fun exercise. a note to all, parking lots are where it's at. i've got a few favorites in the north bay area, though the stuffy old number crunchers get bitter at me even when it's completely off hours and i'm just carving around. anybody else know what i'm talking about with this? the parking lots for big businesses are sick, when they're on a hill. too flat is too flat. there's this one parking lot that i can spend along time going down , almost infinately, if i really tried, of course my legs would eventually give out, but the ammount of lines and power available on these pavement waves is just boggling. between runs, i look at all the possibilities and plan a run over there, need to maintain speed here, then carve all over down that part, pump acroos to the other section, and try to make the run last as long as i can, while still going as fast as i can. kindof makes me feel sorry for the people in florida. i still think for a longboard, the best all around trucks are exkates. sure, you can't adjust them easily, but they provide so much energy, turning, pretty stable, and there's that no wheel bite thing. well, enough of this, i'm gonna go turn my legs to jelly!
|
|
|
|
|
economy
|
|
On 7/21/2004 cfavero
wrote in from
(24.13.nnn.nnn)
i am finding the secret to pumping is many things.first,if it is speed,it is about starting off with some tourqy pumps,but as you accelerate,minimzing your arm and upper body movement,pumping uphill per say,you would want to exaggerate those movements to provide torque.but when you are buidling speed,three things,the stiffer the board,the shallower the turn radius and the more vertical you can pump,the more speed you will build.look at olson as an example.p.s.a wicked helps(thanks al)cf
|
|
|
|
|
the secret is in the tail...
|
|
On 7/1/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
...of the wicked the deck doesn't necessarily flex the most where the shape cuts in at the waist. the flex is redirected further up to about three quarters further forward towards the deck's nose. wheelbase is variable depending on wherever its drilled actually. it works real well at about 18" though i've raced it at something like 21" at la costa w/favorable results.
what i really like most about the way this shape has evolved is how many ways your feet can "dig" into this deck as you change position during the ride.
lately though i've been steppin onto other decks to get a feel for what is going on. one that really strikes a chord in me is the pocket pistol duane peters surf sacrifice. i really like what chicken (and whoever his deckmaker is) have done with his decks. simplicity has its virtue.
|
|
|
|
|
The Wicked...
|
|
On 7/1/2004 ss
wrote in from
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
...that Alan skates probably has a wb shorter than 30". That board is just about made for pumping, isn't Alan? What is the wb of the Wicked, and what makes it such a great pumper (in addition to your skills, of course)?
|
|
|
|
|
sikc bugs and othe rcritters
|
|
On 6/30/2004 vaitus
wrote in from
(216.166.nnn.nnn)
oh I git it now, just couldt'n pic myslf pimping with a 30" something wide stance...
|
|
|
|
|
all pumped up
|
|
On 6/29/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(216.80.nnn.nnn)
oh yeah you can just stand on the front truck and pump w/your foot in the middle of the broad wehn uoy wnat two do tha
|
|
|
|
|
puping on randols
|
|
On 6/29/2004 vaitus
wrote in from
(24.199.nnn.nnn)
*while standing alomost directly over each truck* even on a long wb? sounds like a sinkbug...pls xplain
ps sory couldn't help it...
|
|
|
|
|
spelling...
|
|
On 6/29/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
...was never my storng point.
|
|
|
|
|
juicing with randals...
|
|
On 6/29/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
i find that randals pump quite differently than most other trucks. they really lend themselves well to working one truck against the other.
push your board to about walking pace and then while standing alomost directly over each truck try to act like our pushing the front truck towards the way your facing and push the back truck towards your back (do the opposite for the next pump). this is the simplest way i can think of describing it right now.
after a while you will get the idea and you can do this with most techniques, even parallel...
...hope this helps.
|
|
|
|
|
Pumping
|
|
On 6/29/2004 Neil Johnsen
wrote in from
(217.154.nnn.nnn)
I have a Comet John O'Shei with Randell 150 trucks and Turner white Avalon wheels and i also have a Flexdex Stinger 36 with randell 150 trucks and Abec 11 70's Flashback 78a wheels. Bothe decks have Abec 7 bearings in the weels.
My problem is i still can't pump when going along flat ground even after trying for 6 months. I can push along and get a far speed going but as soon as i try to pump i start to slow down rather than speed up. Am i doing something obviously wrong? Has the set up on my decks got anything to do with it? Please help
|
|
|
|
|
How to Pump