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| Pre-1980 Vintage Gear (6027 Posts)
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value
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On 8/12/2001
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Several very good and interesting questions have been raised...
Do quality copies lower the value of much sought after originals? Possibly, but not always. I guess it depends upon what item were talking about and whether the copy is being sold as a copy.
If you look at the little Shelby Cobra kit cars... It seems in that case they have actually driven the value of the originals up. Watch the freeways going up to Willow Springs when they're having a race. Dozens of kits (and an occasional original) But these guys know they are copies.
Almost the same thing with the Cobra Mustangs. But some guys are selling the copies as if they are originals. Value seems to stay up on all of them... but the value of an original that is on par with a fake, does seem to show that it (the original) has been de-vlaued)
But with the Impalla SS, the caprice rip-offs are fooling most of the guys into thinking it's an SS... seeming for sure to be knocking down the value of a real one.
From this example it seems to me that on a copy that is sold as a copy, that the value of the original may actually go up and remain high.
But on copies that are sold as originals, the value of the true originals stays lower.
Just my 2 cent observation... I know cars are different, but its still "a bunch of guys" wanting to own what they couldn't before!
ART... that's a tough one for me... should art be free? Should artists have to suffer and starve? Should I leave this question for the philosophers... why yes, yes I should... HR
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DT original
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On 8/12/2001 r.mendino
wrote in from
(208.30.nnn.nnn)
yep...wes humpston bulldog design....very good condition.....
i wuz making the rounds on the comet at my climate controlled indoor slalom training facility when one of my self storage customers sez, "dude, check this out" and he proceeds to pull the deck out of his storage space
dt prism logo on top and the extra airbrush corona around the edge of the deck on the bottom
schwweeet!
no if he doesn't pay his storage space rent the contents of his locker will be auctioned
heh heh
r.
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DT copy
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On 8/12/2001 scabs
wrote in from
(66.21.nnn.nnn)
The auction was pulled...or closed
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1176544492
but like Duane pointed out...no bidders. Lots of guys saying they`d pay $150 to ride a copy DT but no one stepped up to bat.
There`s a whole big discussion about re-issues and copies and what they do to the collecyable market but I emphasize the real issue is about someone artwork.
`nuff said
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Copies / Reissues
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On 8/11/2001
the boardman
wrote in from
(64.0.nnn.nnn)
Copies of old decks would be wonderful. Very hard to find a old school pool skate. I'd pay $150 to ride a quality deck. I refuse to ride a toothpick. Nice FAT pool / park boards with loose trucks are where it's at. Loose is juice.
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Copy
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On 8/11/2001 Duane
wrote in from
(63.21.nnn.nnn)
No bidders on the Dogtown copy, justice was served.
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DT copy
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On 8/11/2001
scabs
wrote in from
(66.21.nnn.nnn)
I`m with GBJ on this one and don`t think it`s cool to copy somebodies artwork. I can understand wanting an oldschool ride that can be thrashed but if I personally spent that much time copying it, it would be for my own pleasure. Use of Wes` artwork seems intentionally done for the $$$
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$4550 DT's for $10
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On 8/10/2001
Preston
wrote in from
(63.10.nnn.nnn)
Hang on to your jaws you DT freaks,just a little over 5 miles from my house there is a church that has a thift store in the basement,and every second Sunday they have a sale,and 3 out of 5 times that I went I have seen complete DT's in good,to very good condition for $10.00 a piece!!!
This just goes to show you a FOOL and his/her money are soon parted., So invest in something you can actually use,
like vintage watches, or something similar... By the way I
spent $20.00, and I now have two Shogo's, one with bones and gullwings, the other with green Sims snakes and lazers,no copies,no reissuse. Next time guys look before you spend. Stay safe
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GBJ
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On 8/10/2001 Kirtis
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
Sorry for the dyslexia!!!!!!!
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GJB
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On 8/10/2001 Kirtis
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
GJB-
I understand what your saying. The DT logo is not even a reproduction, It has elements thereof. But Wes ain't no starving artist as I can attest after just paying him 1000.00 for one of his handmade decks. I would pay the price for a copy, But thats me, By the looks of my auction maybe I am alone in my thinking.
Peace and thanks.
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Clarification...
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On 8/10/2001 GBJ
wrote in from
(24.38.nnn.nnn)
Don't get me wrong here, guys. I'm not saying anything about the level of craftsmanship or the amount of work that goes into producing these one-at-a-time, handmade decks. If someone really prefers the ride of a late 70s deck to a modern deck that much ($150), then more power to them. I guess what I don't understand, and would object to if I'd been the producer of the original decks, is the use of the artwork and tradenames, that are onviously intended to enhance the value of the deck. Kirtis, the board on E-Bay looks beautiful. I particularly like the use of stained or different colored woods in the laminate, which helps show off the wheel wells, but would you have the courage to ask $150 for it if it didn't have a carefully reproduced version of Wes Humpston's art on it. Who knows? Maybe Wes is flattered. I wouldn't be, because I've spent too much time as a starving artist of some type or another, and it can really hurt watching someone make money off of my intellectual and creative production.
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Alvin's deck
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On 8/10/2001
Evoracer
wrote in from
(63.206.nnn.nnn)
Alvin,
Awesome deck! I see you used birch ply. Looks good.
Hugh, I'm flattered. No, looks like Alvin is a craftsmen as well as a big collector.
Let see some more "rip offs".
Evo
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Dogtown
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On 8/10/2001 Duane
wrote in from
(65.201.nnn.nnn)
You'd think for $4500 you'd get straight griptape.
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shogos
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On 8/10/2001 herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
a shogo shape lenthened to a longboard shape right down to the airbeam construction,has been a reoccuring idea of mine for years.
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BigFoot
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On 8/10/2001
Kirtis
wrote in from
(208.45.nnn.nnn)
I talked to Bob Biniak last week and he said that one of his Dogtown Skates bullet designs held the previous ebay record at well over 3000.00. I hope Rich enjoys his newly gained fame as the guy who paid used car price for a used skateboard.
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OldShool Copies
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On 8/10/2001
Kirtis
wrote in from
(208.45.nnn.nnn)
Glad to see that I stirred up some conversation regarding My DogTown copy deck on EBay. I appreciate some of the comments I've read here regarding COPYS as an affordable means of owning and riding your favorite oldschool deck. If any of you have ever tried to make a copy from scratch then you would appreciate the time, effort, and research that goes in to making one. It's alot of work. I personally would like to see more of the classic shapes and designs being done. Until the original manufactures figure out that there is a market and people like us who would pay to have a remake, then a handcrafted copy will have to do. A copy is not mass produced rather handcrafted by someone who actually gives a shit and cares for detail. Thanks for all of the comments. NCDSA Rules.
Kirt Kessler
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Shogo
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On 8/10/2001 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Before i skated, i did ride race bikes(10 speed) for maybe a year or so.The local shop had a skate counter, that was actually sublet space to a guy named brad,he says Glen Friedman(photo guy)is his cousin.His shop got booted,and he opened in englewood,i never found it,i just bought my banzai from the bike shop.Yesterday Brad walked in and bought a Dregs 40 with 215s and Cherrybombs,talk about skate influence no1, he then brought in from his car(it may actually have been a timemachine:) a Shogo Kubo with a lightly scraped tail,Magnesium Extracks with about seven small chips in the paint(from gravel)and white Bones (mint of course),he does want to sell,wants me to post it on ebay for him, soon.Herbn@cybernex.net for early bids.
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$4550 DT
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On 8/10/2001
Neil G
wrote in from
(198.169.nnn.nnn)
That must be some sort of record. The auction looks legit, a lot of the usual collectors bidding on this one. $4550, that's just psychotic.
Neil
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OldShool Copies
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On 8/10/2001
Kirtis
wrote in from
(208.45.nnn.nnn)
Glad to see that I stirred up some conversation regarding My DogTown copy deck on EBay. I appreciate some of the comments I've read here regarding COPYS as an affordable means of owning and riding your favorite oldschool deck. If any of you have ever tried to make a copy from scratch then you would appreciate the time, effort, and research that goes in to making one. It's alot of work. I personally would like to see more of the classic shapes and designs being done. Until the original manufactures figure out that there is a market and people like us who would pay to have a remake then a handcrafted copy will have to do. A copy is not mass produced rather handcrafted by someone who actually gives a shit and cares for detail. Thanks for all of the comments. NCDSA Rules.
Kirt Kessler
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dogtown
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On 8/10/2001
Paul K
wrote in from
(195.110.nnn.nnn)
look in amazement...
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1172987151
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Old Powell
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On 8/10/2001
Neil G
wrote in from
(198.169.nnn.nnn)
I dunno, that Chinese site is asking fairly standard prices, if you look at any of the vintage sites. They want $90 or $100 for the common ones and more for rare ones ($240 for a McGill I noted). Seems like they're going for the vintage cash grab.
Neil
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Alvin's new board
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On 8/10/2001
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Alvin,
That sure looks like a RK built deck! Is it? Or are you also a master-craftsman? Beautiful! Beautiful! Beautiful!
If only my homemades turned out as well! Even the funky's that I make have over $100 of parts and time into them... $150 for a beautiful handmade homebuilt tribute deck is a bargin... HR
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New Old Stuff
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On 8/10/2001
Lansing
wrote in from
(24.218.nnn.nnn)
I'm with Hugh and Evoracer on this -- These "copies" (although I like what Hugh calls them: "tributes"!) are not crappily-made ripoffs. They are painstakingly made, probably at a material + time cost of WELL OVER $150! Plus, they give old-timers (and younger 'old school fans') a chance to get a classic deck that they can actually use! I mean, get real: who is going to spend $400, $600 or $1000 (nevermind the insane $4550 DT!) for a mint-condition (if they even exist) Alva, Krypto or Shogo and then drop in a bowl or boardslide a curb with it!!!?? Nobody.
For those who say they are "ripping off" the original designers: that's a fine line. I'd bet that TA is actually flattered by the fact that people (very FEW people, mind you) are taking untold hours to handmake copies of his classic '70's decks. And if there was SO MUCH money to be made in the venture, then he and others would probably jump on the "reissue" bandwagon and make & sell 'em themselves. And it's not like Alva or Wes is making a dime when their 20+ yr. old, beat-up deck sells for $400+ on eBay, anyway!
Anybody remember those Ferrari/Lotus/Lamborghini/MG fibreglass car kits that you slap on a VW frame that were so popular in the '70's? That's kind of how I look at these copies! The average-Joe who could never afford a $100,000 Lamborghini could have the fun of "almost" driving one around by just spending a couple thousand bucks (and 100's of hours in his garage :-). Plus, they didn't have to worry about astronomical repair and insurance costs! Nothing wrong with that, IMO! In fact, come to think of it, I'd love to have a Ferrari kit-car AND one of Evoracer's Alva copies...er, I mean "tribute" decks!!! Call me a poser, but I'd be happy!
My only concern would be if somebody in one of those deck factories in, say, Taiwan or China, decided to mass-produce "vintage" decks. That, in my opinion, changes the dynamic from "tribute" to "copy/ripoff." There was some concern about this very thing when Old School Powell (aka Powell Golden Dragon Corp.) started selling NOS '80's Powell decks for like 50% of what the same decks were going for on eBay and the U.S. collectors market. It certainly wouldn't be hard for a deck factory to setup to make some pretty darn close copies, including the graphics. Fortunately, it seems that Golden Dragon is legit...others may pop up in the future that aren't. Here's the Golden Dragon website for those who are interested:
http://www.powellskateboards.8u8.com/old.htm
Lansing
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Re: History...
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On 8/10/2001 msk
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
GBJ:
After a 20 year layoff, I did try the newschool decks, and hated them for the same reason I gave up short/narrow decks back in the mid 70s. I was riding 32" and up decks with a minimum of 17" wheelbas from about '76 on, and even after not skating for 20 years, I couldn't handle a 14" wheelbase. After struggling for almost a year with a deck that just didn't feel right, I picked up a Gravity 36", which had been redrilled for an 18" wheelbase. Right away, I felt at home on that board, just would've liked a bit more width. A few months later I discovered, and bought, a Bulldogs 32", and with the exception of having concave, that feels just like my old pool decks. For me, wheelbase is critical, and the generic popsicle sticks just don't have it. I've always ridden with my front foot a few inches behind the front truck, so nose kicks are just wasted wood and/or wheelbase for me. I agree that going back to an actual 70s deck really isn't practical, but I do prefer the old shapes. Bulldogs has hit the nail right on the head, as far as mty tastes go. The 36" and up wider decks like Gravity and Sector9 offer run a pretty close second, but I really don't need that long nose (at least not yet...)
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New Old New Stock
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On 8/9/2001 Glen
wrote in from
(216.102.nnn.nnn)
I'd love to have one of Evo's Alva re-issue decks, they are really nice boards. I'd also like to have a Dave Andrecht, first year clone too. Having built my own decks, I don't think $150.00 is too much to ask for the labor that goes in. I just don't have that much to spend.
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New Old Boards
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On 8/9/2001
Alvin
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
hugh, evoracer, lone skater, et. al.,
I hear ya. I have some cool boards that I just can't bring myself to tear up by skating. A tribute board is the next best thing. Check out my latest based on the 10" Alva:
http://users.ev1.net/~peng/skate/add3/a291.jpg
http://users.ev1.net/~peng/skate/add3/a292.jpg
http://users.ev1.net/~peng/skate/add3/a293.jpg
http://users.ev1.net/~peng/skate/add3/a294.jpg
http://users.ev1.net/~peng/skate/add3/a295.jpg
I'm still deciding on the graphics, but the shape and profile are spot on.
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