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| Pre-1980 Vintage Gear (6027 Posts)
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Original Gullwings and Phoenix
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On 10/15/2000
GBJ
wrote in from
(207.172.nnn.nnn)
PSR, It seems the more I think, the less I know. So, if some mechanical engineer wants to contest or refute my observations, I'm easy pickins. As a dedicated user of the original, split-axle Gull, since its' introduction to the market, I have made numerous observations, which, if properly quantified, would probably reveal the true genius of this truck design. The first, and most remarkable difference between these early Gullwing designs and more standard truck designs, is a built-in, variable geometry. On a Tracker Fulltrack, all the geometries are fixed. The positions of the kingpin, the pivot, and the angle of the hanger to the pavement are pre-determined. To change one is to change all, and can only be accomplished through wedging. Since there are opposing nuts on either side of the hanger and grommets of the Gullwings, tensioning the truck is an independent function of these two nuts, while the hanger-to-street angle can be adjusted by moving the whole "nut-grommet-hanger-grommet-nut" unit back or forth toward the end, or the base, of the kingpin. The other key factor one might have to consider, if attempting to wedge a set of Gullwings (I've never done it) would be the inherently shallow angle of the Gullwing kingpin, which roughly approximates the shallow angle of some of the Randal racing trucks. On standard trucks, the kingpin is seated in the baseplate and tends to stand nearly vertical between the line of the board and the pavement. With the Gullwing kingpin seated in its' cradle, toward the inside end of the baseplate, and angled much more toward toward the end of the board; much of the angle you'd wedge into the kingpin of a Tracker is already there. Without one in front of me at the moment, I'd have to say that if you wedged a Gullwing (skinny end out), you'd probably be moving the kingpin to a position where it is nearly parallel to the ground. I can't speak to whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing, but something in my head is telling me there's probably a point beyond which a truck will begin loosing efficiency. Try playing with the angle between the pivot and the hanger (as adjusted above). Stand the front hanger up tall, and lay the back one more flat; or vice versa. Stand 'em both up tall, or lay 'em both down flat. Even having long-since recognized the nearly infinite variability of a set of Gullwings, I have yet to even "scratch the surface" of the potential combinations. I've recently realized the great joy of setting up standardized courses, bringing my laptop with me, and setting up number crunching spreadsheets, where I run ten runs of one set-up against ten runs of a different set-up. As warped as it may sound, I am VERY MUCH looking forward to a winter of extensive equipment testing and number crunching. The sport, to which I have dedicated a huge portion of my life, has suddenly come back to life. For me, there can be no greater joy than doing everything I possibly can to be a contender, while my aging body is still capable.
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Gull Wing Phoenix
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On 10/15/2000 Pre-School Rider
wrote in from
(209.198.nnn.nnn)
I have put these on a homemade slalom board,and found that I can't get them to turn a tight arc when they're set up flat,and they get worse if I set them on wedges with the thin ends outward.I have set them up flat on my old Hobie(rockered shape)and they do fine.If they're run on wedges with the thick ends out(on the Hobie)they crank!I'm not confused,yet,but it seems odd that the Gulls react so differently to changes in angle than normal trucks.I'm going to put them back on the slalom today,and see what happens.Any advice from those who have or do run the old Gull Wing trucks would be greatly appreciated.The good news is that so far I haven't gotten bucked by wobbles,which was why I ditched my first set of Gull Wing H.P.G.s back in the days(that crash still makes me wince).
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Sport Fun
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On 10/15/2000
Kaylee
wrote in from
(65.0.nnn.nnn)
Well, right after I posted that last spew about Sport fun, I found one for sale on e-bay. The auction says "If you buy this skateboard, and ride it, there is an instruction label on the bottom, giving cautionary advice." Which translated means TOY. That's the first freakin one I've ever seen for auction! And then I went to Sport Fun's web site: Digimon, Nintendo, WWF, MTV, Dragonball Z, all skateboards. Check it out and laugh:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=464627202
http://www.geocities.com/tnflea/sktbord.jpg
www.sportfun.com
I still don't know what year it's from.
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Sport Fun
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On 10/15/2000
Kaylee
wrote in from
(65.0.nnn.nnn)
I wasn't really looking for a monetary value, I wouldn't pay more than $5 anyway (or expect anyone else to). I wasn't even trying to sell it, I like it too much. I've ridden it in big Albuquerque ditches and skateparks, not to mention hills and downtowns. It's a surprizingly responsive and grippy little toy. It rides nicer than a modern day flipper deck for soul stylin'. I was just curious if anyone had a year span for production of this model. I'm particularly wondering if it came out before or after sealed bearings became standard, because if it had loose balls after sealed bearings were around, then it's definitely a toy. But if it comes from the time of a different sounding bearing, then it's an old toy that rides real nice, especially for never being modified in any way. It's one of my keepers, and it's definitely collectible in my eyes.
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Was??
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On 10/14/2000 Pre-School Rider
wrote in from
(209.198.nnn.nnn)
GBJ,it ain't dead yet!You nailed it though,I've got the 28" laminate version(with wheel wells),and usually it's set up with Tracker Mids and Green Sims Snakes.The Gullwings/Krypto setup was just to see how tight a turn I could get outa the old girl.3-1/2' circular arcs are now possible at a fast-push speed.The local new-school crowd freaks at seeing that,followed by several linked nose-to-tail 180 kickturns or a good nose wheelie(manual,sorry).As to the cones bring out people,Eric and I were amused in Cambridge to find a small spectator group applauding us for smooth runs!People clapping for a Skateboarder on a public pathway?!?Would never have thought I'd see that!
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Hobie Parkrider
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On 10/14/2000 GBJ
wrote in from
(205.177.nnn.nnn)
That must be the laminated, rockered, park board, huh? That was a very functional deck. While I was skating Warp2, with Midtracks and white YoYos, my best friend was riding Hobie Parkrider, Halftracks and very early Powerflex 5s. It definitely served him well. I keep encouraging him to dig deeper, in his mother's house, to try to come up with some of his old equipment. There should be an early Z-Flex, a Bahne slalom, A G&S kicktail, a G&S Parkrider (stiffer), and that Hobie Parkrider. It's funny how slalom courses can be infectious though, isn't it? People just want to try it.
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My very old Hobie
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On 10/14/2000 Pre-School Rider
wrote in from
(209.198.nnn.nnn)
I caught a glimpse of futures past today at the newly-tarred parking lot at Stratton.Mac and I were cruising cones on the Turners,when a family showed up on those scooter thingies,and asked if they could use the course.Within fifteen minutes,the Dad was asking if I had an extra board he could borrow(I loaned him the Joyride;former snowboard,now cruiser),and ten minutes later,his five year old son was asking if I had another board he could use.I put him on my old Hobie Park Rider(w/Gullwings+Red Kryptos)and he was skating within half an hour!I knew that board was good when I bought it in '77,but watching a little kid figure that board out brought back all those good memories of how much I learned from riding it.It's a keeper,and it's value in my book just went up another grand or so.. ;)
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Sport Fun
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On 10/14/2000 GBJ
wrote in from
(207.172.nnn.nnn)
Just one man's opinion, but... toy. There were any number of fringe companies, that marketed the thin, straight fibreglas, photo decorated, boards. I don't remember Sport Fun, specifically. I recall Ampul and Newporter as being two of the companies that actually advertised these boards in Skateboarder Magazine. I never, ever, saw anyone, who took there skating seriously, riding one of these. Toy.
I think the most fascinating situation in the whole collectible skateboard market, is the complete (and continued) lack of value in anything with the NASH name on it. That particular company has been the king of the toy skateboard market since the very earliest days of skateboarding, and has probably netted billions from the Toys 'R' Us market over the years. However, as HughR pointed out, the collectible market is driven by aging skater's recollections of the desirable boards of their youth. I've never met a skater, aware of the industry's brand names, who ever wanted a Nash. So, even today, a beautiful, mint-condition, 1966, Nash produced board will go up for auction on EBay, and it won't draw a single $5 bid. I'm sure this makes the clueless, non-skating, "collector"-types crazy. They think they're looking at a beautiful piece of 1960's, collectible esoterica, and they get NO bids. Funny. Old prejudices die hard.
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collectables
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On 10/14/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Kaylee,
What I have noticed in collectable stuff (at least toy stuff that guys collect) is that the value of an object is directly linked to the desire that he had as a youth to own the object. Other things play into it too. How many were made, how many are for sale now. Speculation on re-sale etc...
Lots of guys wanted early Simms boards, so the value is high... etc...
Same thing with cars. A 1964 vette is highly collectable. The same year dodge polara is much less desirable.
So the value of a skateboard is really hard to put a finger on. But if I was going to guess on the one your describing... $5 to $15... maybe... HR
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Sport Fun
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On 10/14/2000
Kaylee
wrote in from
(65.0.nnn.nnn)
Hello, I was wondering if anyone was familiar with old Sport Fun boards. I have one that is 24"x6", pure fiberglass, with a tropical design on top, no grip. The trucks say S.F.I, and have a loose axle with a loose ball bearing system. The urethane wheels say Supergrip Sport Fun. The back truck has big spacers on the axle to increase the hanger length by an inch or two. The back wheels are wider, too, but they are of the exact same kind as the front truck and wheels. I've seen lots of old crap and lots of old classics on Ebay, and I've never seen this particular version of Sport Fun. Does anyone know what years these came out, and/or the crapola factor of the brand (i.e. toy or tool.)?? My girl scored it for me for $2 at a thrift store a couple years ago. It's in rideable and not-too-thrashed condition, and I'd just like to know the collectibility factor of this deck. I would have done a search, but since I can only search single words, which is it: Sport or Fun? Thanks.
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Bolinas/Seapeople
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On 10/12/2000
Pete McIntosh BLVD. SWELL BOARDS
wrote in from
(38.28.nnn.nnn)
This board is 24 inches long by 5 and a half wide. The trucks are super narrow and nameless. It is a combo of matted glass and wood with a striking orange color. I recently made an exact replica for myself to ride with 2 layers of mat glass pressed between thin birch wood.
BOULEVARD SWELL Custom Boards gave me the advice I needed to complete the replica.
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Mike Weed's Wheels
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On 10/12/2000 Mario
wrote in from
(205.227.nnn.nnn)
Remember Weed Wheels? My brother got those and they were really sweet. I think they were the first wheels that had a lathed surface.
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Mike Weeds Quiver
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On 10/11/2000
Bob
wrote in from
(192.73.nnn.nnn)
Herb,
I remember that quivers article. I was totally impressed by Weed's quiver too. I really wanted that double kick. Didn't Peralta have a quiver in that issue too?
Bob
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OJs and Ad Tracs
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On 10/9/2000
Chris S
wrote in from
(208.164.nnn.nnn)
I don't think that they're OJ IIs. I have a set and the OJ IIs are much smaller. The OJs I got on the Earthski look like the same mold as the orange ones I had in about 1976, only in red. I should probably put the up on ebay, Ultrarare Red OJs.
Thanks for the info on Ad Tracks I'll check when I get home.
Chris
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OJ II's
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On 10/9/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(208.192.nnn.nnn)
THere's always the possibility the wheels were added on much later.Ad tracks had a stack of washers or a single thick spacer behind the wheel,should be quite obvious.
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Logan Earthski
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On 10/9/2000
Chris S
wrote in from
(208.164.nnn.nnn)
I just picked up an old Logan Earthski, Bruce Logan model yesterday. The deck is pretty thrashed, grinded tail, chipped up kicktail (on the top of the deck), and duct tape wrapped around the nose. Even so, it rides pretty well. The trucks were Bennett Pros, with the original (unbroken) plastic baseplates. I'm not sure whether they are Ad+Tracs or just Pros. I have a set of Pros. I'll have to compare them.
The wheels are OJs, but here's the weird part, they're not that bright orange urethane that was OJ's trademark. They look more like Road Rider red. Does anybody remember red OJs? I sure don't. Let me know if you remember something. Thanks,
Chris
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Rainbow skate park?
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On 10/7/2000
Tony
wrote in from
(209.240.nnn.nnn)
Does anyone remember this place? In Tampa,Fl.
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Fiberflex
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On 10/6/2000 Mario
wrote in from
(205.227.nnn.nnn)
Hey Mark,
I still have the Fiberflex, but it's too small to ride. I might set it up with some vintage equipment as a wallhanging. Or maybe one of my sons will grow into it and do some slaloming. I've got a Taperkick with Bennetts and 65mm Krypto reds now, but it isn't in cherry condition. That G&S warptail is something, isn't it? Glad you are happy with it. (BTW - don't get the Seismics, they'll ruin you for everything else.)
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G&S Peralta Warp Tail
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On 10/6/2000 Mark
wrote in from
(199.46.nnn.nnn)
Hey Mario,
How's it goin', man? I see your posts occasionally. Thought you might like to hear how your old stick is doing.
(For you outsiders, I traded Mario a Fibreflex slalom deck for a 31.5" Peralta) I put a NOS sticker on the top,
and the wood and original grip tape have been scrubbed clean with a toothbrush. I've got NOS Bennett Pro's, with
aluminum baseplates, and NOS 65mm OJ Super Juice wheels. Back in '77 or so, I used to waste my time begging my
poor mom for this setup. Now I have it, and it's too nice to ride! It looks damn good hanging on the wall, though.
I've got a framed shot of Mr. Peralta (in a skatepark, on a Warp Tail) and a large, vintage OJ wheels sticker
hanging next to it.
Whatever happened to the Fibreflex?
later,
Mark
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Quivers
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On 10/6/2000
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
Herbn, At a time when everyone was producing needle nose, winger-stinger-swallow tail shortboards, I was putting together blunt nosed rounded square tailed quivers such as the one in this picture http://www.chrischaput.com/quiver.jpg The four flavors of Chapstiks were 29", 31", 36", and 48". They would have been longer if I had been bigger at the time (5'2" in 1976). A few years later other manufacturers caught on to the "function first philosophy" and actually started putting out some rideable boards.
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Skatepark Membership i.d. cards
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On 10/5/2000
barleye
wrote in from
(206.111.nnn.nnn)
we're still gathering scans of old skatepark i.d. cards for our online museum/collection. please submit your cards to
idcards@z-boys.com
and check out the temporary site.
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/skateboardparks
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Mike Weeds Quiver
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On 10/5/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Occasionally when i want to chill for a few minutes,i go to my stack of Skateboarders pull one out from the middle at random,Today i caught a glimse of Mike Weeds collection of boards from like 79 or so,it included a 31x9.0 doublekick and a 54 inch foam fiberglass downhill pintail, whoa! talk about ahead of your time,a 31x10 foam/glass vert and bank board.Same issue,Kim Cespedes,TURNER vert board!
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Crofton Daze
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On 10/3/2000
GBJ
wrote in from
(205.177.nnn.nnn)
So you recall the early days at Crofton, as well. Remember walking into the proshop and finding whole runs of freshly silkscreened Airflow boards, laid out to dry on the floor? I wonder what ever happened to good ol' Jeff Midkiff (first inverts in the area)?
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Crofton Park
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On 10/2/2000
Eric
wrote in from
(209.220.nnn.nnn)
Sure am. I'm in Annapolis now. I think I remember the batting cages (Behind the pro-shop, right?) but not the water park.
It was the only park I remember that had a slalom run (I hated that left hook at the bottom though).
I had some great memories of that place. I remember the last time I saw it standing. It was full of(well 3 or 4) kids on BMX bikes doing some tricks.
I don't have any stuff from the place, unless scars count..hehe. I can't say I even remember when they tore it down. I just remember driving by the shopping center and saying "Holy sh*t, where's the skatepark?"
I thought I would go back one day and drop into that tight bowl on the left as soon as you walk in and come out without a scratch....
oh well, thats the way the skatepark crumbles I guess..
Who am I kidding, I can't even take my longboard down the street without hurting myself....(well sometimes I get lucky)
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Coping
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On 10/2/2000
GBJ
wrote in from
(207.172.nnn.nnn)
Eric, I've got a piece of the coping from the Crofton Capsule Pool in my basement. I also have their original Grand Opening Flyer. Although I only rode there in the first season, before the batting cages and water park, I have very fond memories of Crofton. I also have some first season Super-8 mm films. Are you still in the D.C. area?
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