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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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Quiver reply
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On 11/14/2004
Andrew Lunsford
wrote in from
United States
(67.161.nnn.nnn)
Thanks for posting a pic of your current quive Chris. I'm sure looking forward to returning to a skate scene on something that reminds me of my early years on comfortable lenght board, just a bit longer than the solid no-flex 8 1/4 wide birchwood i used to pump on and begin trans riding back in '77. Your recreational 34" looks to have a slight camber and some mellow concave and a long wheelbase. I'll start there and let you know what i feel when i get some time on it... Just got back myself from a 18 mile quick paced ride on my old schwinn paramount. Eyeballed a few cement trails while on the ride too. stay young and skogg on. I'm going to get pumped up again and see what i'm capable of doing soon.
Happy 50th Birthday to you!!!
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My Quiver Today
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On 11/14/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
Hey Andrew! Thanks for picking up one of my boards. Like I said, I'm totally into skogging and pumpin' as of late. I still get some vert but not like 30 years ago.
So this picture here, pretty much shows you my quiver. The deck that really turns me on is the 38"x9" . I'm working on a 36" x 9.5" to round out my flatland pumpin models.
It aint all about downhill these days. Flatland self generated speeds for races are an upcoming scene! RIght on? Y0.
I'm heading down to Mission Beach right now to get my Boardwalk Pumpin fix.
Cheers sk8rz!
Click here for link
p.s. Oh yea, my Park board is a PoolKing skateboard by my friend Michael Early. He's at Click here for link
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The Trap
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On 11/7/2004
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
I have to agree with Chris Yandall and Chris Chaput.
A few seconds of effort really isn't much.
176 feet is still very short.
But it works for this type of event.
I'd like to see the fastest time (not speed) for a mile course or longer.
But that might just be me.
But since the whole trap thing kind of died after the ideas that Chris
and Chris were shot down, I think that may indicate something.
I don't know what, though.
I like the idea of push racing and pumping races.
By races I mean a group of participants all going head to head.
But timed events where competitors from around the world can compare
times to see how fast they are in relation to other skaters are great too.
I would like to see more brain storming on this whole matter.
Months ago there was a lot of energy going into this idea,
and then the whole thing completely died. Why?
Who else has thoughts, suggestions or ideas on this?
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Reaching Climax and forgetting the After Burn
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On 11/5/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(168.253.nnn.nnn)
hmmm. i've looked at this response(see end of this post) for months and still can't agree with it. my thinking was that you peddle up to the 176' mark and you blaze thru that entire speed trap area that measures your "best speed" within it. If your fastest time is when you hit the speed trap start, so-be-it.
if you want to continue stroking the walk or pumping thru it to increase your speed, you got 5 -7 seconds to do it.(if you burn out in less time.. check your oil) 44' to me assumes that terminal velocity will occur in much less time. dude, with 5-7 seconds at these self generated speeds, 176' STILL makes more sense. Instead of snaking a top speed, give it more time to determine THE top speed. And believe me ... how long is 5-7 seconds anyways? NOTHING! 176'!!! GET IT?
I even took my Ginko this month to ponder a better method of measure :D
anyways, that's my bitch today... I've been skogging up a storm. I love it!!!
I'd like to thank all the thought provoking people here for this thread but 44', IMHO really eliminates the millisecond shaves that 176' promotes.
cheers skaterZ
Chris Yandall
"A lmost. The "extreme effort" in this "event" is more in the accelleration prior to The Trap, and then maintaining the speed through it...however long or short. 95% of one's energy should be expended in reaching maximum speed. Remember...NO maximum approach! It's going to take not only strength and agility for this event, but some amount of skill in timing your speed "apex", and not burning out too soon."
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Pump Events
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On 10/15/2004
steelwheel Bob
wrote in from
United States
(63.164.nnn.nnn)
Wow!
I did not know you guys existed.
Too Cool!
I want to have a flatland/pump contest, maybe something like the Cyber contest at the WC, this December in Santa Barbara. I might call it the Korten Klassic Cyber Slalom Challenge and perhaps get ncdsa and OP to get behind it. Any suggestions?
Here is a letter I posted on the slalom page yesterday before I found this pump page:
Hi,
As you can tell by all the responses, the WC was over the top, and I think the Korten appearance helped pushed it there.
What I would like to do for CW is an interview with Korten and let Gilmore do the story of the WC.
Jim's story is very much like the movie "The Natural" staring Robert Redford where an aspiring baseball sensation disappears for well over a decade then reappears as a scruffy unknown attempting a come back. The mystic of the movie as well as the mystic of Jim's place in slalom history is one of wonder...could he have been or is he the greatest slalom racer of all time? The Redford movie ends in a triumphant and sensational moment...but you are left to wonder what came next? Did he go on to bigger and better things?
All things considered, Jim's reappearance in this WC was pretty dynamic and stimulating. But it leaves one to ponder what will happen next, how will Jim's story be played out? Will he take on the new breed and prevail; will he succeed against the older legends he never faced? Is he truly the Greatest?
Most of the racers of the 80's know Jim as the pro competitor. I know Jim as the guy that ran the CASL slalom contests, almost all of which were on flat ground with no starting ramps. This is where I did all my racing. This is where I learned to master the magic of the pump. Jim built a custom Korten Koffin for me and maintained it for all the years I raced. I have ridden that board consistently from 1988 to this day for transportation and demo's. I like to pass it around at flatland jams and let kids feel what a truly fast board is like, and teach them the Korten pump and let them experience the magic of being able to propel yourself on a board to ever increasing speeds without touching the ground.
Earlier this year at a flatland jam at Rengstorff I put out the Bob Staton Flatland Pump Challenge and tried to get people to race me in a large circle for three laps. Gary Holl was the only taker and he won easily and amazed even me as to how fast you can go just pumping. At a WFSA flatland jam in Napa last year some kid around 11 really took to the Korten Koffin and spent a lot of time riding it and doing all kinds of freestyle and street and skate park tricks and getting into the speed and handeling of the board. This kid reminded me of Jim himself. I skated with Jim several times at some big school yard banks and he could do anything with that board you could do on a street board, his one footed 360's on the banks were so cool.
We took about 40 pictures of the 'Napa Kid' doing ollies, shuvits, flips and power slides.
I could just as easily be known as flatpump Bob rather than steelwheel Bob because I take the Korten Koffin with me everywhere I take the 2x4...and for the same reason...to let people experience first hand the feel and the ride of these different boards and what their strong points are. I have learned many tricks and competed in many skate contests of all kinds, but the master of the wiggle, the king of swing, Jim Korten is the only person that ever taught me a skill.
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broadway bomber
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On 10/3/2004 Brendan
wrote in from
United States
(24.47.nnn.nnn)
Broadway Bomber pumping competition. 12 noon, 110th street and broadway, October 23rd. Test your skills riding in NYC. any other inquiries www.binusboards.com, then contact us. THANKS
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Pumping symmetry
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On 10/2/2004 Bugs
wrote in from
Japan
(220.4.nnn.nnn)
My toeside pump has always been stronger than my heelside pump. I'd always set up my deck with a wedged front truck and a de-wedged rear truck.
But I changed to a longer deck recently, and decided not to de-wedge the rear truck. Presto - my heelside pump suddenly became as strong as my toeside.
Anybody else notice this phenomenon? I'm thinking it's caused by the fact that my heelside pump comes from my rear foot, while my toeside pump comes from my front foot.
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The Trap
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On 9/24/2004
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(66.121.nnn.nnn)
Peter Klang of Sweden has just claimed top spot on the The Trap rankings from Micheala Dong with an 18.634 mph through a 44ft trap. Congrats Peter!
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New Boards!
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On 9/19/2004 Ryan
wrote in from
United States
(24.47.nnn.nnn)
I recently heard of a uprising company who really caught my attention. These boards will be great for any pumping competition because of the wheels they use. Their boards are currently in the press but i can't wait untill they come out. Check out their website to see what they are all about, i think they sell shirts and wheels as of now. The companies name is Binus and they also will be making surfboards. The website is Click here for link
Ride Hard
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Pumping
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On 9/15/2004
Eddy
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
After my less than stellar performance in Georgia. My pump could not be found. I am back at the drawing board. I have started running 50 cones 5 ft 7 in apart for about and hour and also pumped up a long slope for about an hour. I will continue to do this until the Worlds. This weekend I will hit some hills with some of the local Outlaws and run some courses. Wish me luck Dudes. Eddy Texas Outlaws.
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The Speed Trap
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On 9/13/2004
Trap Daddy
wrote in from
United States
(130.13.nnn.nnn)
THANKS to Adam for completing The Trap forum!
The rules are set, and The Trap can be run through any of the three distances. Official "observed" events (competitions or official GBOWR trys) will utilize either the 88' or 176' trap.
Since this is a pure speed measurement, I envision that we'll have a lot of "pushers" post; This is good, because we all started skateboarding (some of us a LONG time ago) by pushing...and that lead to bigger and better things.
There have been other great suggestions on this forum about lap races, timed races and strictly Pumping contests. I'd encourage everyone to develop your idea and discuss it in the appropriate forum. Even if this idea/event falls flat after a short time, it was worth putting it out there.
RIDE FAST and DON'T FALL.
-=S=-
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The Trap...
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On 9/3/2004
adam
wrote in from
United States
(66.121.nnn.nnn)
From the webmaster..
The Trap page has been updated to accept 44, 88, or 176 foot trap lengths, and to score based on speed, not time. The rules have also been changed slightly per suggestions from AZ Steve. Still in flux.. but get your times posted!
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The Trap...
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On 8/30/2004
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(66.121.nnn.nnn)
Yep.. I have some coding to finish for Steve's new trap distances. Hopefully I'll find some time this week. A few new forums coming online too..
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cool
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On 8/30/2004
slim
wrote in from
United States
(69.110.nnn.nnn)
when things settle down and you guys have more time to get back to it, I'll be reading! It sounded cool and might motivate me to work on my pumping skills too.
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The Trap...
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On 8/28/2004
Steve in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(130.13.nnn.nnn)
yeah, Slim, I noticed that too. Good reason...
Adam was working non-stop around the Breck race, trying to get the CS competition squared-away. He has yet to update The Trap forum for the revised rules. My wife is now expecting, so the desire (or time) to get out and run some high-speed passes is lower than what it was.
I'll get Adam a more stream-lined goof-proof version of the rules, and we'll try to get the forum set with the correct entries & calculations. Michael D's 44' trap times are still there, but the new version will allow for conversion to MPH for any of the Traps. I still believe that either 88' or 176' will become the standard, but it's still in the planning stages.
The other thing is that the racing season is now in full swing. We'll get The Trap up-to-speed (so to speak) after Morro, and set something up at one of the races or gatherings next season.
-=Trap Daddy=-
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boom bust
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On 8/28/2004
slim
wrote in from
United States
(69.110.nnn.nnn)
I think this topic must be one of the all time boom to bust topics! There was so much interest and talk about it for a few days and then, wham, it's dead. What happened? (and still only one time posted on the "trap" page.)
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LeMans style racing
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On 8/11/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
we've considering a LeMans style skateboard pump race here in chitown. by employing multi member teams riding a single board per team w/pit stops (and crew) we'll see how many laps a team can make in like an hour. anybody who's been at any of our races knows that our choice of venues offers all too many possibilities and challenges. uphill, down hill, through tunnels and s-curves galore, drafting and even some pedestrian avoidance skills should come in handy.
anybody up for a different kind of challenge?
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pumping competitions
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On 8/10/2004
binus
wrote in from
United States
(24.184.nnn.nnn)
would anybody be interested in a pumping contest in central park NYCity? get back to me at binusboards@yahoo.com for more info!!
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The Trap...distances
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On 8/6/2004 TrapMaster in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
I've gotten some great feedback on the other site in coming up with an International Standard.
Good news is that it will still be in FEET; This makes MPH easier to calculate, and then MPH can be converted into KPH for our European & Canadian friends.
We also have still not determined a standard Trap distance, but 176' and 88' are still the two most appropriate numbers.
As far as running "The Trap" at home, it was suggested that all THREE distances be allowed: 44', 88' and 176';
But when POSTING your time, post the 88' time! So:
- 44'secs x 2 = 88' secs.
-176'secs x .5 = 88' secs.
- 88'secs, post as-is.
This will make it easier for Adam to format the page when he can get around to it. Of course, this may change if we adopt a 176' standard.
The 176' standard is gaining popularity; Run as a contest, there would be a greater time differential between the contestants with runs between 4.5-7.0 seconds over the 58 yards 2 feet Trap (yup! It's over 1/2 the length of an American football field). Runs on the 88' Trap would be 2.25-3.5 secs.
RIGHT NOW...the consensus is split between 88' and 176'.
Thanks for your continued input and support of a standardized Flatland Skateboard Speed Record & the associated participation and competition.
-=TrapDaddy-S=-
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The Trap length
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On 8/3/2004 TrapDaddy...in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Hehe...it's cool to hear all the discourse about The Trap!
At this rate, we'll have everything ironed out by the end of August.
Let me first start by re-interating that I'm NOT against a 176' official trap. I have yet to give all of this a REAL full-pad run myself, so both C&C and Mike Dong have one up on me that way. I may well decide that 176' is the way to go.
C.Chaput said: "If we looking for top speed only and we have a timing system, make the trap 11 feet or 22 feet. It's not really a course then, it's just part of the timing system."
YES!! That's IT. Or at least that's what I had originally proposed.
C.Yandal said: "From My point of view... 5-6 seconds of extreme effort to move down the line is just right to test the clock."
Almost. The "extreme effort" in this "event" is more in the accelleration prior to The Trap, and then maintaining the speed through it...however long or short. 95% of one's energy should be expended in reaching maximum speed. Remember...NO maximum approach! It's going to take not only strength and agility for this event, but some amount of skill in timing your speed "apex", and not burning out too soon.
C.Chaput: "The reason that I prefer 176 feet to 88 feet (or less) is because you actually have room to accelerate through the course."
oops. That just means that you hit The Trap too early, Chris, and your final speed will suffer as a result. You gotta hit that sucker at MAX speed and maintain it through The Trap.
C.Chaput: "For hand-timing your runs, the shorter courses will double or quadruple the margin of error."
Absolutely correct. 176' is the best hand-timed distance...no question. But for competition, better systems are required, and a shorter Trap can be effectively utilized. Besides...88' ain't all that short.
C.Chaput: "What I'm hoping will happen is that someone will take about 150 feet to push up to more than 20mph, pump for the next 150 feet and GAIN speed and then maintain that speed for the length of the trap. I'm not loking to wear anyone out. I want them to "peak" at the right time and place and maintain it for a reasonable length of track."
Bingo. Now we just have to agree on what's 'reasonable'.
Eric "silversurfer": "I would like to hear more about peoples' theories (as to)what equipment would be best for this new skateboarding event."
Hehe...As CC had mentioned, once a higher speed is obtained, a slightly longer more stable board with good wheels will give the skater the ability to pump 'in a higher gear', so to speak. The VERY best deck for this would be made in Alaska and have a very cool fiberglass bottom. ;-)
Seriously, I see 34-40" GS boards set up with narrow, sticky wheels. My C.Ya currently has a wedged German Seismic in front, a GeezerX offset rear and Avilas. If I were "Trapping", I'd go with a more narrow wheel and run the front truck flat.
I'll end with C.Ya's comment: "...We (really) need some serious hands-on acid tests to test the waters. not once.. but MANY times :D"
Until then, have fun at either 176' or 88'.
-=S=-, The TrapMaster.
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Trap Length
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On 8/3/2004
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(24.62.nnn.nnn)
C&C are making sense. I like 176 FT. and would even like to
see a longer course used for a seperate endurance event.
Theres a lot of great energy going into the planning and
brainstorming of the event though. Should be really
cool no matter what rules you end up with.
I would like to hear more about people's theorys
about what equipment would be best for this
new skateboarding event.
Great Job, Steve in AZ!
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176' Flatland Speed Sk8Dance
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On 8/2/2004
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.101.nnn.nnn)
From My point of view... 5-6 seconds of extreme effort to move down the line is just right to test the clock. the shorter tests won't be good enough for *absolute* proof? really we need some serious hands-on acid tests to test the waters. not once.. but MANY times :D . chris chaput feels it in his video what needs to be done.
C <diggin the scene with a gangster lean> Ya
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Trap Speed
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On 8/2/2004
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
If we looking for top speed only and we have a timing system, make the trap 11 feet or 22 feet. It's not really a course then, it's just part of the timing system. The reason that I prefer 176 feet to 88 feet (or less) is because you actually have room to accelerate through the course. For hand-timing your runs, the shorter courses will double or quadruple the margin of error.
Any reasonably fit guy can maintain pumping or pushing speed for the 6 seconds that it takes to travel 176 feet. If someone pushes up to 20mph before the trap but can only pump at about 15mph, he will fade toward the end but not because he is tired. It's because he pushes faster. If that same rider wants his best time, he should just push through the trap.
What I'm hoping will happen is that someone will take about 150 feet to push up to more than 20mph, pump for the next 150 feet and GAIN speed and then maintain that speed for the length of the trap. I'm not loking to wear anyone out. I want them to "peak" at the right time and place and maintain it for a reasonable length of track.
In track the 100 yard/meter dash is a sprint and the 440 is murder. 176 feet is a lot more like the 100 than the 440.
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Silverpushersurfer
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On 8/2/2004
Joshua Burt
wrote in from
United States
(67.160.nnn.nnn)
Punch yourself in the crotch before you start so you don't feel the pain in your legs.Also,I like to ride a light board.You don't want to start feeling the weight at mile 5... I ride a Curve Swift 29 with Indy 129s and Avalons.I am able to pump(to keep this forum oriented)most of the course.I don't know about the NYC course,but the routes I have to choose from are butter smooth.You can pump with confidence,the surfaces are nice and grippy.I am always last no matter how I do because I think it's bad form to place at my own event.The series leader,Robin McGuirk,is unstoppable!He's riding his own lumber-Eastside Longboards.It's a smaller board as well,with Randal 150s and Kryptos.Another skater worthy of mention is Adam Fuller.That guy is the King of Punk!He raced #1 in combat boots and got 3rd!!!On a Wentzle Ruml!I am going to start doing the trap and getting times for these guys.I bet they are some of the fastest around!Pump,push,or tick-tack-PORTLAND RULES!!!The KINGS of flatland racing!
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Updating "The Trap"
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On 8/2/2004
Steve "Father of the Trap" in AZ
wrote in from
United States
(192.175.nnn.nnn)
Geez! I wish I could have been there with C&C to give this all a try.
I was stuck here in AZ for the weekend, so I didn't have the chance to run Traps or even try different distances.
After considering the latest feedback (and the Video of Chris C.), here's what I got:
-PAT C.; Yep, you got my bad math. But the calulation is still correct:
A 44' course (at Breck??) in .875 seconds:
MPH = 3x44 / 4.4x.875 = 132/3.85 = 34.286 MPH
-The Calculation is precise for official record trys, with no "rounding" or .333 or .6666 stuff.
-Chris's "120/secs = MPH" works for 176' courses.
-For shorter courses, half the numerator in the formula:
88' course MPH = 60/secs.
44' course MPH = 30/secs.
-This is a simplified version of my intial formula, and is accurate under all circumstances.
Lastly:
-Chris is also correct in that running a 176' course is easier to time with a simple hand-held stopwatch, and also requires more stamina and strength on the part of the skater. If that's what the contest is supposed to measure, then that would be fine. But CYa asked the question first: "I wonder how fast you really can go?" My impression is that The Trap should be first and foremost a contest of raw speed...a race for the sprinters, so to speak. If that means that some lightweight can waterbug their way up to 24.9 MPH in a short, manic sprint, then that should stand against a bigger, stronger skater who can hold his or her speed over a longer trap.
I'm not opposed to a longer trap (176 ft), but if it eliminates the record time of someone who enters the trap fast but fades in the last 88 feet, I think that's not right...at least not for contest.
The good news is that anyone who practices with a 176' trap has the advantage of building endurance and being able to time their try more easily. And you can infer from this that riders with good 176' times will probably increase their MPH over the shorter course, if only by a little. I may change my mind after a few fully-padded runs, but for now, I'm leaning towards 88' at official competitions.
Adam: I'll try to keep changes down to a minimum so we're at least a little consistent. Please update "The Trap" forum to incorporate the following:
-The submitted times can be either on 176' or 88' courses. I'm getting the idea that a 44' trap would be just too narrow, and that even the "sprinters" would not have too hard of a time with an 88' trap. So be it; No 44' traps.
"OFFICIAL" times (submitted under contest guidelines) would require the 88' course AND a taped or other accurate timing method, 6' wide at each of the start and finish tapes.
And still, NO MIN/NO MAX approach, NO LIMIT to Pump or Push or Skog or Flail, including through the trap. Please update the official Rules as such:
-Eliminate the push limits; No DQ's for pushing or pumping, even through The Trap.
-Eliminate the "Country" and "IP addy" columns.
-Add Columns for "Trap Dist: 176'/88'", then the time column, then "MPH".
-Is there a way that Trap distance and best time could be entered by the skater, and MPH could be calculated by formula within the webpage? That's it.
So sayeth the TrapMan.
Or TrapDaddy. :-D
-=S=-
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How to Pump