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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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Re: skate berlin
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On 6/28/2006
Ravn
wrote in from
Germany
(195.37.nnn.nnn)
Be all very welcome.. Berlin is good all year round, spring or summer is probably the safest bet for skating - the climate is semi-continental, i.e. rather dry, with moderate temperatures around 0°C in winter and 25°C in summer. The weather is usually quite stable for periods of several days (applies to rain, sunshine and murky weather equally). But you cannot really predict if its dry or wet at any given time. Highest elevation in the area is 115m.
@tarin: That's nice to know that there are some LDPers so close by.. Send me a mail when you come to Berlin. Did you know that there is even a bike trail from Copenhagen to Berlin? Unfortunately it's declared that it is not paved all the way, but I usually skate up and down the last bit for training.
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marathon v sprint
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On 6/27/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
PMG, as for the slalom and LDP, two different worlds, but very symbiotic. If you're really into targeting your racing game, I'd definately get disciplined on as many challenging offset and tight courses as possible, and as fast as possible -- i.e., ride with people faster than you and use a timer. I don't train for slalom to be heavily competitive, its more for the brotherhood and having fun. Have learned a TON about the right gear and many pumping forms from it, but there are definately pumps that are new discoveries to LDP. I round slalom out with downhill carving, bombing, pool shredding, skurfing and boardwalking -- but the vast majority of my time commuting and pumping trails. The turns on un-coned trails don't have to be so precise, but still very rhythmic and GROOVY. Like Derek said its training for a whole different set of muscles. The one benefit that LDP carries over to slalom is I can keep running up the hill all day and keep charging it, where most of the slalom crew is done after a few hours. But if perfecting the perfect line through the cones and precision turns is really your end goal, keep running cones, clean!! (and fast will follow)
p.s. -- Just heard from Trevor a.k.a. "deciduoustea" he's in Newport OR right now! Ya know, all these benefits-- Cornwaithe's ride across Australia, Push for the Cure, etc.. I really dig it -- and I'd love to quit my Dilbert job and do 'em, but what I can feasibly manage are the weekend-warrior charity rides so I'll have to stay local most the time and support and cheer on you lucky young punks with the pre-family scheduling freedoms!! ROCK ON!!!
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ldp excursions
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On 6/27/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Trying to catch up after a screaming downhill weekend in Salem, would be great to see even half of these worldly LDP plans come together!! I'm sure the family would be into Euro vacation but depends heavily on funding. I'm planning a 3-week December excur$ion to Tokyo and will hook up with Adam and whoever else from outdoorjapan, and some Murasaki guys, to pump the Tama River trail and freak out the natives. Japan, anyone!?
Ravn cool to see you here! With an LDP nirvana in your backyard you must be getting in really decent shape. Hopefully you can try out some snappy light deck, I think you'll find a whole new source of power with programmed flex. Gareth and I carved up the slalom hill in Salem this weekend on the latest PS38" Crossfire -- it ripped!! Tried it with Holeys for just carving and the SplitFire trucks for pumping speed down the hill. The Holeys are really wide for long surfy carves, gotta test them more I suppose... I'm getting spoiled with the loose and responsive SplitFires, point the nose and quickly shoots carves in that direction.
I still favor forward stance for pumping medium speeds and uphills, but its when moving fast that the flex from the center of the deck really returns energy and speeds up every pump. I start up front, then slide stance toward the back as the ride progresses and accelerates, pump the deck harder in the middle, then forward again, back again-- with the tunes on its almost like a meditation 2-3 hours a day. I find getting dialed into your music the most important, relaxing thing - the swinging arms, your foot arches, stance, cadence -- all takes care of itself.
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pump around the world...
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On 6/27/2006 eric
wrote in from
(71.233.nnn.nnn)
hmm..what if someone organized a pump around the world for charity tour? just a thought.
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wow
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On 6/27/2006
tarin
wrote in from
Denmark
(82.143.nnn.nnn)
that looks amazing! ravn, im gonna come down and check it out one of these days.. berlin is such a short distance from copenhagen!
if there's a ldp tour next spring or summer, you guys should make sure to pass through here as well.
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ldp tour
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On 6/27/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
We should really plan our 1st annual ldp tour for this destination. Yes, Spring or Summer 2007!
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skate berlin
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On 6/27/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
good god-
that looks like heaven!
i have to come over there and check that trail out. it sounds absolutely amazing. what time of the year is the best time to visit over there? this could be a blast of a ride in spring or summer of 2007...
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lost link
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On 6/27/2006
Ravn
wrote in from
Germany
(83.121.nnn.nnn)
Hmm.. the board ate the first link in my message - sorry:
Click here for link, English summary available but unfortunately not linkable. Just click on the small US/UK flag on the main page.
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skate track
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On 6/27/2006
Ravn
wrote in from
Germany
(83.121.nnn.nnn)
I thought the world cup has been in Are this year.. oh, I see, you're talking of soccer now. ;) You can have that world up, if I am to keep the trail.
If anyone of you happen to be in Berlin sometime, don't forget your LDP board and visit
Click here for link - PDF map overview of the trails
Oh, and drop me a note when you do.. I'd like to join in. :)
I've just done two of the small circle tracks today, but it's so amazing. (I couldn't stop after the first one and got foot-ache in the second) The asphalt has been specifically designed for skate wheels.. it's like flying through the summer fields.
What did I notice..? I still think that the board could have a lighter tail. I think that my foot-ache results partly from hauling that heavy tail around.. (besides being generally an unusual movement.) I alternated stances, and still prefer to stand quite far in front. And a few arm movements just came in naturally when climbing hills. But that's probably all old news for you.. ;)
I think I need to try another deck sometime..
(thanks, Marc.)
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97 km of butter smooth pavement!!!
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On 6/27/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
97 km of butter smooth ashphalt, no cars. Wow, that'd make it worth taking a trip over to you neck of the woods Ravn!
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biltin bearings?
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On 6/27/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
yay or nay for ldp? Do they make any difference?
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Ravn
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On 6/27/2006 Marc
wrote in from
(71.231.nnn.nnn)
If you need the tierney bushings give Kurt Tierney a call and he will send you some. As for the weight of the tierney, the deck is light. What is heavy is those MONSTER wheels.
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distance vs slalom
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On 6/27/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
hey PMG-
james peters probably has some good stuff to offer here, since he's done extensive training both in slalom and in LDP. but here's my take...
long distance training builds your body's ability to process energy efficiently, while sprinting builds your power. you can see this if you look at the different body types of bulky sprinters vs. scrawny marathoners.
if you do a lot of distance training, your quickness typically tends to decline and your ability to jump is affected. those springy muscles come in handy in stuff like slalom. i would think that it's fine to do a bit of both disciplines from time to time, but if you are set on training for a specific event, the bulk of your time would be best spent focused on that.
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97 km!?!?!
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On 6/27/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
hey ravn-
not only do you get the world cup, but a big smooth bike trail as well... sounds like a dream ride you are going on this afternoon. looking forward to hearing how that ride goes!
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Re: Derek & Marc
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On 6/26/2006
Ravn
wrote in from
Germany
(195.37.nnn.nnn)
Thanks derek,
I guess the Tierney is rather heavy when you compare it to a Roe - plus it has got a rather wide tail, adding extra weight in the back. That could be a reason why it does not really feel unstable with that stance.
But I will have the opportunity to do a little more experimenting today.. there's an inline skate marathon track (up to 97km of dead flat butter smooth asphalt - woo!) in the area which I will pay a visit to in the afternoon. I have been riding a lot across town and on bike trails where the tarmac/pavement is not so great, and I guess that moving on a better surface will also allow for the faster gears (and stances) to work better. I wasn't able to cater for music yet, though - I probably got to hum a tune myself while riding..
@Marc: The trucks are in my gear box currently.. I have run out of bushings and have to order some more sometime.. Do you mean black bushing or black torsion ring? I've got a truck with these large bushing blocks and haven't found any information on available durometers on the tierney website or elsewhere.
I haven't pumped a lot on the Tierney yet.. but if it pumps, I will definitely try it. :)
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RE: Ravn
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On 6/26/2006
Marc
wrote in from
(71.231.nnn.nnn)
I am new to LDP as well. I have a little bit more experience in Slalom but not much there either. I found that with Slalom you place your feet in a way that faces your body forward, but in LDP I found it is better to stand sideways (like you would on a Tierney). I can get more powerful pumps out of it that way.
On another note, what did you put your tierney trucks on if they arent on the T-001? And, have you tried pumping the Tierney? It is fun with the black bushing.
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Marathon pumping vs. Sprint pumping?
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On 6/26/2006
PMG
wrote in from
United States
(198.151.nnn.nnn)
When I go out and pump not only am I doing it to keep in shape, but my main reason is to practice for slalom races. While it’s best to practice slalom using cones, I rarely set up cones when I am skating by myself because I am too lazy and it takes too much set-up time.
If I pump to practice for slalom races is it best to pump for long distances or would it be better to pump as fast as I can for short distances? Marathon pumping vs. Sprint pumping?
When I pump for long distances to build my stamina I try stay a relaxed and as loose as possible and use only the necessary energy required to keep myself moving forward.
If I am only looking to improve my racing skills which method should I use?
PMG
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form and footing
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On 6/26/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
hey ravn-
great to hear you're getting in some nice long rides!
i didn't even know there was such thing as slalom skating when i started doing LDP, and i still don't have as much experience in this discipline as i would like. the foot positions and the general motions in slalom have been discussed extensively, and i think there is a ton of stuff to be learned there. and with that said, i think there are many things unique to LDP that seperate it from slalom.
one of the main differences is the extent to which your form will vary during a given session, determined by whether you are going downhill or uphill, accelerating or maintaining speed... and because of that, your foot position and arm usage are going to vary extensively.
i used to ride quite a bit with my front foot positioned ahead of the front truck. it's a sacrifice of stability, but it provides a good easy gear where you can just drag the back of the board across the pavemement and accelerate with that friction. riding into a good headwind is one place where i still find this foot position to be helpful, but at higher speeds, it's too risky for me. when i moved back to the center of the board, i found that not only did i have more stability, but increased power, since i could now alternate my weight evenly on my front and back foot, and dig deeper with sharper, evenly balanced pumps.
(also... i can't remember if the teriney board is really heavy- is it? because that makes a big difference on where your feet are going to feel comfortable.)
with arm motions, the best thing i've found is to pump, relax my arms, and see what natural movements they fall into. from there, i exaggerate that motion a little bit, and bring it into my form. as far as i can tell, arm motions are helpful for raising your center of balance, and that comes in handy for acceleration and going up hills. But if you are just trying to maintain speed, arm motions can be a waste of energy. it seems to me that it's the same approach as speedskaters have when they use their arms.
have a great ride!
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groove
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On 6/26/2006
Ravn
wrote in from
Germany
(83.121.nnn.nnn)
Thanks a lot, Erin! Yes, that mp3 player should be the next thing on my wish list. I haven't had the chance to pump to music yet, and it sounds so good when you describe it. I am currently just enjoying the flow and finding out which movements go along with it. I am sure that if there's more groove, my arms will join in. ;)
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arm movements and stance
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On 6/26/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Hi Ravn, welcome to the ldp lounge.
Really cool to hear that you enjoy going distances on your lpd board.
Every time I go out for a pump sesh I discover something new which is the magic of this sport. Generally speaking, however, I have found that standing over the front truck is the optimum power postition for me. I prefer to use a toe stop so I don't have any surprises over time with my foot creeping too far up the nose of the board therefore I haven't experimented with a stance that puts my front foot ahead of the truck. I was interested in reading what you had to say about this. I know that Derek moves around a lot on his deck and doesn't use a toestop either so it will be interesting to hear what he has to say about stance as well.
There are times when I am just mellow that I might stand just a snitch behind the front truck but I agree with you that standing more towards the board's centre really reduces the efficiency of the pump.
As for arm movement, I am a big fan of it. But this seems to be a very personal thing as some of the other pumpers I skate with have less arm movement and are still very fast and efficient long distance pumpers.
Arm movement evolved for me when I started pumping whilst listening to my ipod. The tunes get me into dance mode and I tend to move on the board in relation to the beat of the music. Gradually I discovered various moves that lent power to my pump along with rhythm to the ride. And then of course sometimes I just throw in some moves just 'cause they feel good.
There are quite a few arm movements that I have found work well with pumping. James' shadow boxing style works especially well going up hills and for generating speed, longer swinging motions help retain fast grooves and alternating dancing type movements add energy to a long non stop flat and are also good if there's a tail wind.
For me pumping is about more than just fitness or travelling from A to B, but rather its about the feeling, the grooves and most of all the fun! To that end I tend to move on the board in whatever way feels good and puts a smile on my face.
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LDP foot placement
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On 6/26/2006
Ravn
wrote in from
Germany
(195.37.nnn.nnn)
Hi everybody,
As I haven't been posting much on ncdsa.com let me quickly introduce myself: I am Thomas (aka Ravn in most fora) from Berlin, Germany. Used to be a lot into downhill carving, but got hooked on LDP a while ago, doing mostly 10-30km tracks currently.
I currently run Carver CX front + rear truck on a Tierney rides deck.
http://relet.net/g2/main.php?g2_itemId=4967 <- deck photo
As you can see, I have no slalom pumping background, hence my question (coming real soon now):
While messing around with various foot positions on my board, I discovered that pumping is most effortless when my front foot is noticeably in front of my front truck. I do not have a toe stop that would prevent it, but a slightly upturned nose that eventually stops my foot way in front of the truck. The motion I am using to pump feels like what some of you have been describing as "walking on the spot". I do not use much arm motions, to "rock the child" or punch it, or anything similar.
The movement feels ok to me, and I can pump distances without problems. However I am wondering (and here the question finally arrives) - should I try to adopt some arm movements or another stance to.. I don't know - generate more power? Feel better? I am just confused because on most videos, people pump differently than I do, and stand more in the center of the board. Have you tried to stand in front of the truck yet?
I have tried to stand more to the rear with my feet.. pumping is still ok, but not that good. It works still at higher speeds, but changing cadences is more difficult then. I also tried if arm movements help, but I could not get the right feeling.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions you can make.
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truck width
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On 6/25/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Yes, that's right Tarin, the Holey is wider than the CX in the set up I am using. I was curious to see how a slightly wider truck in the rear would affect traction.
At this point I'm not sure I like the idea though as it feels like with the wider truck at the rear there is a greater tendency for the rear wheel to lift a little during some parts of the pump phase.
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cx front and holey back?
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On 6/25/2006
tarin
wrote in from
Denmark
(82.143.nnn.nnn)
erin,
arent your trucks different widths? how is that working for you?
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stoked!
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On 6/25/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Just got back from a 25 km skate - I'm stoked. Been pumping the 'piper with my pink gummies, CX front, Holey rear - this set up rocks!
Sun's out and everyone's out there having fun. It feels like summer has just hit Vancouver.
Ok, gotta go put some more silicone lube on those loudboy bushings then take off for more skating. bye
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n-less repetitio
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On 6/25/2006
tarin
wrote in from
Denmark
(80.198.nnn.nnn)
'doing it til you get it right' works for me too.
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How to Pump