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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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ovals and loops
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On 11/24/2005 peters
wrote in from
Canada
(24.82.nnn.nnn)
oop sorry chris, in a rush here on vacation and called ya 'cya' -- lol. To both you and Munchh...we've run the Vel both directions (toe, heel) and that seems like a good strategy, clock times both directions and average it out, kind of like how we run cyber slalom. That's cool you've got an "in" at the Velodrome down there already, please Chris -- make an event, give us an excuse to get down to Cali next year!
Now I'm off to Vanc B.C.'s finest - Sushi Thanksgiving dinner!!
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cheers
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On 11/24/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Cheers SamG,
theres one in brighton, i'm only 20mins from there and we go there to carve one of the parks.
Have you had a go anywhere?
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Velodrome
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On 11/24/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Hey Peters,
what a great idea, what shape and duro wheels do you have to use?
Dont know if there are any over here, but i gonna have to find out, dont spose you could use such a long deck?
As for racing, how about time trails and to sort out the whole stance thing, you have to ride both ways and average the two times?
Just a thought.
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Ovals & Eights
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On 11/24/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Funny, I had been thinking about Velodromes when I was posting earlier. Velodromes are cool. Steep too. I have a friend who runs the ones in Dominguez Hills and San Diego. I got to take my streetluge in there and get towed by a motorcycle around the track at 50mph. It's wierd when you start to slide out because you "slide up" which quickly slows you down to a speed that stops the slide.
What I didn't mention about the figure eight is that it provides as many toeside pumps as it does heelside pumps. In an oval, goofy footers would be doing all toeside turns and regular footers would be doing all heelsides (assuming CCW rotation). In either track, it would be nice to have banked walls to transition pump off of.
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lap pump velodrome
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On 11/24/2005 peters
wrote in from
Canada
(24.82.nnn.nnn)
hi cya, it isn't exactly a figure-8, but this year i finally broke some ground on the Redmond Velodrome and King county contacts, just need to get the bicycle association's buy-in and we might have the Vel as a flat-pump venue for next year. and they just resurfaced it!! the apron at the bottom is flat as it gets, but once you pump up speed you can gradually climb as you're rounding each lap, then pick up speed again on the "downhill" slope. its a killer workout!
hey airin we made it to the great white north!! stanley park is lookin' smooooth...
jp
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figure eight
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On 11/24/2005
airin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
I'M IN!!! :-)
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Fly on the wall
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On 11/24/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Hey Pumpmeisters, Lately I've been lurking the forum here and resisting the temptation to chime in, mostly because my back and other injuries have prevented me from going out and skating hard. It's as if I have nothing to add if I can't charge 100%. Part of my self-prescribed "therapy" will be to go out and skate as a form of excercise, and nothing gets the heart pumping quite like pumping a skateboard. I like the ideas about a long distance course, one where you might trying only pumping, pumping and/or pushing, and doing it either for speed or for distance. It seems to me that a nice big figure eight shaped course - one that you could do laps on, would work well on many levels. It would tend to be "level" in that there would be as much uphill as there would be downhill. The wind would be in your face as much as on your back. It would be easy to count/measure times and distances. Runs could be easily covered/documented with only a couple of cameras. Competition (which invariably occurs) could be very interesting, especially in the middle of the intersection.
I think that a good way to raise awareness about pumping skateboards would be to raise money for a charitable organization (like Boarding For Breast Cancer) by getting pledges from donors based on a "per lap" ride, with or without a total dollar cap.
Imagine how much fun and chaos would ensue if all of us were to run the course at one time. We could call the intersection the "Chris Cross" (after Yandall), and nickname the event "Skate the 8". Maybe we'd get more "support" if we called it the "Cross Your Heart Brah"?
I hereby commission all of you to go out and set up a big 8-shaped course that is the optimal size for such a venue, and report back your findings. After that, we'd be in a good place to start designing the right equipment for the perpetual pumping machine.
Who's in?
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more....
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On 11/24/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
....the point i meant to make was that the deck needed no cut out as the trucks are so wide and wedging the trucks makes them ride even lower, the width keeps the whole set up nice and stable and the 32" wheelbase helps it roll for ever.
I'm really impressed with the wheels, using abec7's, the roll and roll and stick.
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low pumper
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On 11/24/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
All this info is making my head hurt!
I set up a deck that i made 36" x 9.5", was the prototype of my cruiser that ive sold a few of.
Anyway, i set it up with Tracker 219mm with the standard orange bushing, with 65mm 78a no skoolz, i did it for carving, but found it pumps really well, the trackers are actualy a pretty low truck which i wedged front and back, making them really turny, (back one wedged not de-wedged), not knowing alot about pumping the deck may have been a little too flexy and the wheels too small for long distance, but the trucks being low profile make it easy too push.
Got the grey matter working overtime again??
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skumper pumper skogger
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On 11/24/2005 peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Hey Eric and Airin, IMHO, the compromise on a hybrid pump+push setup is keeping a low CG for easy pushing, but not too small a wheelsize, so that a fast cruising speed can be maintained. Wheel size then dictates a lot about the truck and riser choices.
The El Dorado with Hot Spots sounds great and might have a 26-27" wheelbase drilled as well. The puzzle is a truck+wheel+riser setup to keep a low CG. I don't have Originals dialed yet, maybe Yandal has some pointers here- from my experience with those, you either have to bump up the risers or else have something like cutouts/wheelwells.
I'd also consider Randal 150s or Asphaltplayground 107mm Split-fire front. Two Khiro wedges should eliminate wheelbite and enable sharp pump turns, yet keep it low. Back truck could match with a rear Split-fire, or simply use an Indy/Tracker with really good bushings like Khiros, Stims or trimmed Radikals. These trucks don't require as much riser as others.
The parameters I follow most the time are -
- wheels & riser - 68mm to 75mm (65mm- fun, but too slow, 76mm+ fast, but hard to maintain speed)
- truck tension/pumpability - completely up to rider's opinion/style and desire to eliminate need for riser.
Loose order of preference: CarverCX, RTRs, Split-fires, Randal 150s, Originals.
- wheelbase - 25"to 32" (24- too short a pump for longer rides, 33+ hinders at slower speeds)
- deck camber/concave - snappy slight camber, concave up to opinion (easy to experiment with PPS pads though!)
Currently my perfect "skumping" (pure pumping) setups are the Roe/Insect 43" wood core w/carbon fiber, and the new BABY - Longboard Larry's 43" Custom Cruiser -- the LBL has a 28.5" wheelbase, 75mm Avilas, RTR trucks, and 3/4" riser.
http://home.comcast.net/~jampet99/images/gear_LBL43_topside600.jpg
'Pure pumping' in general street-commuting doesn't always make sense, because cross-city races like Broadway Bomb or Portland Push require steep climbs, have nasty surface conditions, or obstacles where its either inefficient or even dangerous to stay on board. The only reason the "skumping" thing works for distance events here in Seattle is there are long smooth flat trails that are almost unobstructed by traffic and steeps. So we shoot for the same slalom rule of no-touch and apply it to marathons. Besides the simple fact that I haven't learned how to "skog" (really fast) yet, its not easy!
Something new crops up all the time that throws a new twist in this game. This year Brad Jackman brought a lot of new thoughts (and demonstrated!!) to the slalom circle up here just how well a really stiff, concaved AXE deck can pump. Its been a journey figuring it out and absorbing influence from locals who live and breathe slalom, like Gareth, Stryker and Dong, who were somewhat skeptical of my pumping purism in the beginning but have been supportive in technique tips, distance events, and of course, gear.
Hope you get your setup dialed soon!! -jp
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Pumper/skogger
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On 11/23/2005
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(71.192.nnn.nnn)
Like Airin and Chris Yandal I am looking for the ultimate set up for both pumping and pushing. I want to use Original S8 (200mm) trucks (like
Chris Y.) and prolly Seismic Hot Spot wheels (69mm). I am thinking a large gs slalom type deck like the Roe Eldorado (36.75x9.25.
I dont know if Chris Y. still has the 38" CYA deck available.
I think he was working with S9 on a signature model pumper/skogger or something. So I'm thinking 36 to 38 inches by 9 to 10 inches.
Does anybody have any thoughts about the ultimate compromise hybrid between
the ideal pumping board and the ideal pushing board?
It's a difficult problem but the answer wil speak volumes towards the art of long distance skateboard touring (google Doug Dupin) and commuting.
I may have a custom deck made by Roe, Insect or somebody else and I'm looking
for desing input, suggestions and tips. Thanks - Eric.
http://www.roeslalom.com/performance.html
Check out the last two options at the bottom of the page.
http://home.comcast.net/~jampet99/rides/gear01.html
www.pumpyourdeck.com
www.skogging.com
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bad link?
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On 11/22/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.140.nnn.nnn)
Sorry Al, had to make some changes, this link is ok.
Click here for link
And if i've worked it out the pics should be on here aswell, if not i give up.
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anyone making boards overhere?
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On 11/22/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.140.nnn.nnn)
Click here for link
Al,
the link will take you to my gallery latest page, ive got the new pics of the 30"/26"/24" decks but please check the others out.
pouring your own trucks, i did some work for a blacksmith a few months ago and have been wondering if it was possible, like to know how you do?
Would be great to see some pics of what your upto, keep makin them man, the way i look at it is it was cheaper, i could do it and they are all mine.
Nice one.
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Pumping odds n ends
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On 11/21/2005 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
Munchh, Airin and Peters, it's great to see riders with a real interest in advancing this side of skateboarding. Really, I think its the best! In all of your posts I can see a little of what I have been doing..generally alone..(except for my family)for the last 2 years. Right now, I am looking at a tiny, 26" deck that I made to see how kids might be able to torsion pump with it. In this way, I'm kind of like Munchh...thinking small and less weight might be advantageous. However, though you can indeed pump this small board, and actually real well, it is only really good for playing around. Even the little kids...under 60 lbs., prefer a 30+ inch board...so I have found. Also, with Peters' photo of the detachable concave pads, I have thought of that idea multiple times..but never made them. The closest I came to making them was a rig I set up to help me jump curbs. These pads are very interesting, and I plan to either buy or make a set when I have some time. Also, Like Munchh, I make all my own decks ..partly because it costs too much to import to Santo Domingo, where I am currently living. Like Airin, I have been testing pump set-ups for a while, maybe about 2 1/2 years...and continue to do so. So, for all of this, I'm glad that you all are contributing, because it can save quite a bit of energy doing everything trial and error. Little hints about the longer decks are most interesting to me, as I have stated too many times before...I really didn't think they were realistic. So soon I will have some fun playing around with these new concepts. However, with Airin...I probably won't go much over 48".
Anyway, I'm just writing to say I appreciate all to the information that is coming in, as it adds abit of clarity to some concepts I've been wondering about over the last couple of years. So too, to advance in these goals I am currently test-pouring my own trucks here, in Santo Domingo, the goal being..the bests trucks for torsion pumping for all ages and weights...especially women and little kids.
Anyway...this is what I am trying to do. We'll see what comes of it in the future...but I'm very optimistic!
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Big wheelbase, less deck.
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On 11/21/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.140.nnn.nnn)
Thanks, i like them and thats exactly why i started making them, but now i find that the more people i show and let ride them, the more i find i'm onto something?
The last few months i've been looking at using the best wheelbase on the smallest deck i can, this thinking has brought me to where i am now. I've just made a 26" deck that is pretty much the same as the 30" 'pocket pounder' we have spoken about, it gives me the same wheelbase, but without the tail, which is just extra weight, so again leaning toward what slalom deck builders have been doing for a long time, but then i spose i'm a little stuck in the past and never really got my head round long longboards.
So as soon as the weather lets me i'm gonna try placing my foot over the front truck and see what happens, i'll let you know.
Thanks for the input.
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foot placement
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On 11/20/2005
airin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Wow, you build some very nice boards Munchh!
Yes for a pure pumping deck the front trucks will be mounted 4- 5 inches back from the nose to allow room for the front foot to be placed right over the front truck. And you are right, for most regular carving and cruising the front foot would be back from the front truck. But as in slalom, for long distance pumping the foot over the front truck seems to provide the most power to the pump.
As for flex the board can't be so flexy that it eats up the energy that you want to put into you pump but then again, at least for me, you don't want totally unrepsonsive wood under your feet either.
Concave has been discussed here earlier. Some like it, others perfer a flat deck. I like to have a little concave in a long distance pump/push board as I gives me something to push my front heel and the ball of my back foot against when I'm working carves or pumps.
Don't worry, I doubt there is any technique in skating that is 'flawed' as long as you are moving with the board safely. Experiment. Pumping practice provides very direct feedback: on the dead flats, either you are moving the board forward without touching a foot to the ground or you are not. As you get better you can move with more speed and start to pump up slight inclines as well. This is a great reinforcer for learning this magical method of long distance skating.
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hmmm?
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On 11/20/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.137.nnn.nnn)
...mmmmmm?
now i'm confussed again, i always have my front foot directly behind the front truck, is the board flex not what you need, or do you do this with your back foot? My stance is always between the trucks as most of my boards have the trucks mounted as far on the nose as possible. I like my shape and dont like putting in cutouts really.
My technique may be flawed.
I'm not sure how to post pics on here, but you can see all ive made sofar in the gallery on my site Click here for link, this link takes you to the pic of the board i discribed earlier, just set up a little diffrent, but check out the others and delete '/the boards' off the end of the address and check out the site.
You've got my brain going, i've been making boards to order a little this year and so far everyones happy with what i came up with for them, so i'll think on this one could be interesting.
Is a pumping deck better with or without concave?
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drop throughs
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On 11/20/2005
airin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Munchh, we'd love to see some of the boards you've made! Do post pix when you can.
As for drop throughs for pumping...I did have a Drop Carve for a while and found that it did not work well for pumping. The wheel cut outs meant that you could run nice large wheels and still be fairly low to the ground. But it also meant that when trying to stand over the front truck, the optimal place for the front foot when pumping, there was a serious danger of foot bite.
I also have a dropped deck, speedboard, which is nice for pushing over a 20 km hilly route that I often skate in the summer. So for kickin of course the lower deck is the snitz but for pumping: nada as there is no way to get over the front truck. The deck can be pumped a bit but nothing really powerful or for long.
So I have found that the perfect deck for pushing and the perfect deck for pumping are two very different boards. What I wonder now is if a hybrid that can do both with some dignity is possible?
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Airin
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On 11/20/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.137.nnn.nnn)
Cool,
makes me a little clearer,
your hybrid, i'm just varnishing a new deck for my nephew's birthday, its 33 1/2" and looks alot like a downhill racing deck, although my own shape, this is because i made him a 30" deck (one of my 1st) but the shape is all wrong, the widest part too far back from the nose and abit stiff to pump and a 36" cruiser that he has found too big, heavy and wide to pump although he rides it everywhere. I've designed it with more flex so he can pump better, but i've made it with drop through truck holes, making it easier when he is pushing knowing the distance he will cover on it and the cutout shape around the trucks means he can use his RII 180's or standard 150's with 70mm kryptos, bigger if he wanted?
Have you thought about dropthroughs, the shape of the deck is somewhat designed around this. I made one before meaning it to be a downhill speedboard, but found with redline 175's it carves better than alot of setups.
I'll send pics tomorow if you like, got to finnish it with a nice thick coat of ureathane, he's gonna love it.
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Munchh - you're doing it!
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On 11/20/2005
airin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Munchh, don't let me distract you...I'm on a slightly different bent than many other people who pump skateboards over distance. LOL
I think your deck size and wheel base are actually quite in line with what others have found to be optimal for LD skating, especially if you are mainly pumping the board. As for trucks, usually around 150mm works well and it helps if the trucks are run quite loose or are a turny design to begin with...as in the Carver's. Wedging the front also helps with turniness (is that a real word!) and dewedging the rear adds stability... we can see this demonstrated most in the slalom world.
As for wheels, something large like a 76 mm wheels takes a bit more to get going but carries its momentum well. As well the larger wheels generally require more risers to avoid wheelbite on the relatively wide front of a pumping deck. The slightly smaller wheels like 68 mm Avalons and 65mm Cambrias are popular for pumping (and pushing as well, I might add) as they roll quite easily and grip well during the pumping movements plus the board can be run a little lower to the ground.
I think if you read the recent posts here you will see that both Al and James have made a lot of good points about LD pumping set ups. As for me, I am dreaming of a hybrid that will pump and push well for long distances....could be I'm just dreaming....we'll see.
Hope this helps. Keep experimenting and find out what works best for your skating style, fitness level and the type of terrain you have to skate on.
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got it all wrong?
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On 11/20/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.137.nnn.nnn)
Mabie i have this pumping lark all wrong, now i have read abit more, i see that alot of you are using longer decks than i've ever had and i think what i'm leaning towards is i spose more like slalom?
The 36" decks i've made have been great set up with the trucks on either end giving me around 32" wheelbase, but i've been using tracker 219's for the stability (i prefer 'real' trucks, springs are for mountainboards!)and using steep angled risers front and back, so they perform alot tighter. I have RII 180's aswell, but never thought of using the 150's for the longboards.
The largest wheel i've used is a 72mm/78a gravity g, but didnt think they were very good even for carving.
Looks like i've got far more to learn than i 1st thought.
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LD pump-cruiser
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On 11/20/2005
airin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Hey James, thanks for reporting back on your recent Flexdex 60 inch deck skate.
I too have been experimenting a lot with board length and long distance skating ideas this week. We had a couple of (rare) rain free days and on one I made it out twice with a different board each time!
I continue to find the 60 inch board to be lovely for the long distance cruisy type pumps. Granted I am still running 180mm R2's (150's are on their way though) yet the longer board just seems more powerful for the pump. It performs well on small short inclines too.
However, by paying careful attention to how I like to skate long distances, I have discovered that I truly am NOT a pump-purist! I like to throw in some switch pushing for varity and to give my muscles a change from the pumping. I am thinking that I will not likely become loyal to just one or the other technique when skating long distances.
That was an important discovery for me as it will affect the type of deck and hardware that I set as up my designated long distance board. Of course there are already quite a few decks in my quiver that can 'go the distance' so to speak but I am in the designing/planning stages for a board that will be used specifically for long distances (as in 20 - 30 km ).
So I'm back to my hybrid board then. I am still thinking about 48 inches as it is shorter than the long 60 inch pleasure cruiser/pumper but still will carry some of the long board's qualities. I'll probably go with 150 R2's mainly because I can run them loose but with good return to centre using my stash of green Stims. I should be able to be run with fewer risers than say the Carvers thus keeping the board as low as possible for the pushing part and as loose as possible for the pumping part of the skate.
The world of the hybrid is a challenging one. A hybrid board will undoubtedly be not quite as good as one that is specific to either just pumping or just pushing. A board just for pumping can be a little high off the ground allowing for very turny trucks. A board for pushing is best low to the ground making the kicking easier. So I'll have to see if I can capture as much of the 'best of both worlds' as possible and arrive at a efficient pumper and comfortable pusher. If I can pull it off I think it would be awesome to have a set up on which you can alternate pumping and switch-pushing. What a great way to go long distances on a skateboard. I'm stoked about this idea and look forward to seeing how it comes together. I'll keep you posted here and please do keep your own ideas coming...its a great help to me in this project specifically and in sharing the discoveries of long distance skating in general.
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to make things clear....
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On 11/20/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.137.nnn.nnn)
To be more plain,
depending on your hight and weight, the best setup for optimum sideways force?
like i know what i'm talking about............
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pumping newbie
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On 11/20/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.137.nnn.nnn)
I'm very intrigued to hear of people pumping uphill, i've got alot to learn!
I've been making longboards a few years, but my shorter 24"-34" decks have been alot of fun this summer, i've been wedging my trucks and trying to pump as much as i can, i just dont know if i'm setting up right?
Is there a formula weight/truck width/wheelbase/boardlength, if you get my meaning, as i've read about this, but dont know if the adjustments i'm making are the right ones??
My setup at the moment:
deck 30"x7.5" birch ply flat,
front truck bolts 1" from nose,
rear truck bolts 5" from tail,
between inside bolts 19 1/4",
trucks 145mm fibrelite aft145,
front steep angle, rear low de-wedged,
wheels 70mm/72a flashbacks,
it seems to be doing the job, but i'm gonna get some tracker rtx/rts's soon.
Any pointers???
cheers.
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How to Pump