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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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Chris Chaput video
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On 1/3/2006
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(71.192.nnn.nnn)
Here is a short video clip of Chris Chaput discussing the trap, pumping and pushing. Check it out.
http://pumpyourdeck.com/chaput_onpumpin.html
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You guys pump me up!
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On 1/3/2006
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(71.192.nnn.nnn)
James the dual trap vid is awesome!
I like the pump vs. push contest, however pump vs. pump will be fun too.
I can see the genius in getting your fastest push time first. It will give you
a benchmark to beat. And you can keep fine tuning your pump technique and equipment untill you get your best time/mph. Just as you are doing for the push. It will be interesting to see what strategy, technique and equipment will produce the quickest pump times. The slalom racers are doing quite well pumping over the short 44 foot course. Presumably on slalom equipment, but their only equipment notes were; Grippins.
How did the Landyachtz DH, Exkate trucks, 77mm 81a Strikers set up feel compared to the rolls rolls with the big flywheels? Was it easier or harder to push? Faster or slower? Have you gotten a handle on what type of board/truck set up will be best for pushing 176'? What about wheel size?
Were the 77mm better than the 101mm's? Would even smaller or bigger be better yet? Or is 77mm optimum?
I realize you may not have all the answers yet. Like Erin, I'm still working on my pump. But I'm very interested in your work on pushing and I'm very
curious to see what will prevail for both pushing and pumping.
However, as Chris Y. said it's not all about speed. I really enjoy a good pump session or push cruise just for the fun of it. I see the trap as a way to find the most efficient way to pump or push.
I think in the spring I'll start timing a longer course as well as the trap.
I guess James and Al have the LDP pretty much all figured out. I'll need to work on my endurance and technique as well as equipment.
Keep up the great work everyone! This is exciting and is keeping me busy untill the weather gets better. Thank you!
-Eric
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skumped by y0 m0mma
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On 1/2/2006 Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(70.95.nnn.nnn)
lifted from skumping.com :D
"Note: this page is a facelift off Chris Yandall's "skogging" page, paying homage to a 70's SoCal legend who seems to be as jazzed about pushing a skateboard - as we are about pumping a skateboard. His alternate-foot-pushing website is www.skogging.com Imitation is indeed the sincerest form of flattery! -jp "
Let's just say I love it and if pepsi wants to beat sony and nike to the logo punch, bring it on!
jazzed :D indeed. my favorite exercise next to sleep !
Chris Yandall
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the pushing is temporary ;-)
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On 1/2/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Hey Erin, I consider these pushing Trap times as a baseline for now, did it today again with an average hovering around 16.35mph, so after a few more experiments with low CG decks and wheel size, then its full-on PUMP!! And I do think the pump will take over in the longer course -- its just a matter of finding and locking in on a fast cadence pump ASAP
Today's was Landyachtz DH, Exkate trucks, 77mm 81a Strikers.
Welcome Tim! - and Happy New Year all.
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hi everyone
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On 1/1/2006
LandyachtzDHrace
wrote in from
United States
(69.161.nnn.nnn)
silversurfer from Silverfish pointed me this direction i juss want to say whats up everyone and my names tim
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dual trap run
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On 12/31/2005
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
James, thanks for posting that vid on your dual trap "comp". Interesting that the push is still faster than the pump! Humm, I am sort of surprised.
I am guessing that over a slightly longer distance the pump may start to gain over the push. What do you think?
I am still of the mind to use the Trap as a way of testing improvements in my pump speed and therefore will not likely mess around much with the push. Nevertheless the possibilty of either does make it more flexible in terms of have friendly competitions with other skaters who might not be very familiar/comfortable with pumping.
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The DOUBLE TRAP
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On 12/31/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Here's a Trap vid, Munson and I hittin' it as a race this morning in a dry garage on a wet Northwest day. He pumped the distance and I pushed it. Push times were faster (7:40-7:60 range) but its just a first time trying this head to head, there's much to be explored in improving pump technique and more optimal setups.
Double Trap Race
home.comcast.net/~jampet99/images /trap.wmv
Push setup: Arbor pin, stiff trucks. 75mm 72a Avilas. (Next: harder duro and lower CG)
Pump setup: Roe/Insect 43", CarverCXs. 75mm 72a Avilas. (Next: harder duro and practice)
As a race, its a blast! Once the Trap times get narrower we'll need timing system/strips, because the manual stopwatch is hard to manage accurately at these speeds.
Munchh, hope you find a place, keep hunting! - early morning tends to be lowest bust factor. The trackers are nice, especially for the price. I like 85mm Midtracks in front.
jp
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indoor
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On 12/31/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Peters,
i've been looking, but alot of the carparks round here have that 'waffle' type concrete flooring not tarmac and i'm asuming its because we have the most 'hoodies' and we are right next to Gatwick airport, security is somewhat stepped up!
It seems to be drying up today, its been sleet for 2 days straight.
Got a bit of birthday money, went online to order those RTX/RTS Trackers ive been pining for and they are out of stock, arse, be glad to get back to work and some normality, ive put on 1/2 a stone sitting around all this time!
Happy new year all.
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Inserts have landed...
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On 12/30/2005
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(71.192.nnn.nnn)
Al the package came today!
I was very excited, thank you so much.
I got your e mail and I will e mail you more info
on what I've done with your...
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inserts etc
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On 12/30/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Al, so glad I stopped by the office for some garage cyber this morning...there was a little Xmas package waiting! Yeahhhh! I can't wait to get set up and hit some laps, that garage is saving my sanity. Munchh, can you find any indoor place to lay down some urethane?
With all the truck and deck improvements to experiment on, and workin' on both the goofy and standard pumps, I'd have to agree with what Yandall said below "...2006 could be the year of the skumper..." (Hey I'm a speed reader, I just get bits and pieces) ;-)
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Inserts should be delivered
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On 12/30/2005
Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
Eric,
If you haven't checked your e-mail yet I'll give you an update on your shipment...they should be there by now. FedEx says they were delivered at 10:00 this morning to your hometown FedEx center. Just wanted to let you know so you might get them before the New Year!
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forum
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On 12/27/2005
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Way to go Chris!
and
thanks Adam!
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Venturi.
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On 12/27/2005
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Nice to see you lot at it,
the weather here has gone from damp,
to snow and severe weather warnings,
so i wont be posting any times soon!
Peters that thing looks sick, nice one.
Munchh.
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trapping
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On 12/26/2005
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Those are very interesting times and observations James.
I can't wait to collect some times on various set ups. (The only reliable parking garage we have available is a midnight'er....secruity frowns on skaters ripping around in there during the day time or early evening. So needless to say this ol'gal hasn't been parkading it much lately. )
The DH I run with 180 R2's and 83 mm flywheels is actually not much heavier than your LBL pumping board, James, as this prototype speedboard has only 6 layers of maple and then a layer of carbon fibre on the bottom. A lowered board that is lightweight is just so easy to push but I still think gumballs would be faster than flys regardless of the deck. And I continue to think that pumping will be faster than pushing when all is said and done.
I can't wait to test out some of these theories..... I watch by the hour for dry pavement.....
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pump v push times
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On 12/26/2005 peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
A friend and I have been clocking the trap the last couple days, a lot more experimentation needed! After stopwatching 10+ runs manually, the range of numbers narrows down, but a timing system will be a must eventually. And yep Erin, the first thing to test will be smaller wheelsize on both pushing and pumping setups. Now I'm curious if the extra weight and momentum of the Landy DH will help or hinder... The RAIN is making this garage sprinting/timing a decent tradeoff - but can't wait to get out and just freeride some dry trails again!
JS pushing - 16.9 mph (7.1sec), lightweight drop deck, w/Exkate wheels.
JP pushing - 16.2 mph (7.4sec), rollsrolls w/Randal 150s and 101s.
JP pumping - 14.8 mph (8.1sec), LBL w/CarverCX's and 75mm Avilas.
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rollsrolls + venturi
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On 12/25/2005
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
So far I'm only doing the 176 footer, so I haven't figured how switching push feet adds speed in that short a distance. I'm able to map out just enough distance to reach max push speed, mark that point as starting line -- then measure out 176 feet -- and make sure to have the same distance on the other end to run it both directions (average both directions to ensure "flat" course time.) Since the start is unlimited -- as long as it is FLAT -- I find the big wheels work well. When the start is restricted to 15 feet as in Cyberslalom, I see more reason to keep the wheels smaller and start-speed faster.
The Rolls plank is narrow (7 3/4") rather than wide, but RollsRolls' newest little brother called the Venturi is WIDER, with concave. I thought the essence of skogging was alternative foot pushing (??) rather than pumping anyway, so seems the most important factor for "push" is a low center of gravity with less regard for the deck width. Anyway here's the link to Peter's new invention:
www_silverfishlongboarding_com/article.php?story=20051220212717333&mode=print
Erin, any vacant parking garages in town? They're great for this trap and cyber stuff when the weathers nasty. It's the only thing keepin' us sane right now!
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skogging decks
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On 12/25/2005
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Hey Chris, I can imagine what you mean by wanting not too wide a deck so that you can easily and comfortably get into position to generate the most power when skogging. So definitely a wider deck may be a handicap when skogging for long distances.
I wondered what you thought about a lower deck for skogging? The deck would need to be light not some great heavy 11 ply maple speedboard. There aren't many decks out there that come close to what I am picturing....in fact maybe none at the moment. But I am thinking of something relatively short like maybe 36 - 40 inches and low to the ground; preferable a lowrider not a drop through board. And it would make sense for it to be lightweight resulting in less mass to be pushed by the skater. Something of the wood/carbon fibre type of board like a Roe or the wood/fibre-glass combo that Larry sometimes uses as in Jame's skumping deck.
Dang I am nearing the completion of my long search for the perfect quiver and then I get another idea about a board that doesn't yet exist....sheesh!
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trap boards
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On 12/25/2005
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Wow James, I didn't really think of the idea of running the trap with a lowrider! And pushing instead of pumping! Of course, why not!?
I will try out my new LBL drop pin with flipped hanger R2's and gumballs to see what kind of speeds I can get pushing. From what I have learned about wheel size, the relatively smaller wheels should accelerate faster over the short haul. The momentum generated with larger wheels tends to show up more on longer courses. So in theory I should be able to generate more speed pushing my custom LBL lowered board over 176 feet with gumballs than my wood/cf DH with its 83 mm flywheels. Now if only the rains would stop so that I could test out my theory!
As for pumping, I am going to experiment with the Vice-grip and Carver CX's. It will be interesting to start getting some times to post......sigh....as soon as the rains stop (did I already mention the RAIN!? )
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Skoggin Decks
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On 12/25/2005
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.224.nnn.nnn)
eric, interesting board for the trap!
looks great for optimum speeds!
that board wouldnt work for me for skogging/pumping since I have a technique where I get very low for thrusting power from both legs and when it comes to pumping, I need lots of room to get sideways.
looks like someone who has their own style could benefit from it.
awesome idea! look forward to trying one to make sure my visual assessment is correct.
cYa
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trap time!
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On 12/25/2005 peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Hey Eric, here's what I'm currently using on The Trap. For pushing-only, lower the better! Same as what Erin was saying here...
1. low CG and lightweight (rollsrolls carbon fiber drop deck)
2. big wheels for maintaining momentum (Abec11 101's)
For bearings, spacers and speed rings I simply use Chaput's Abec5 Biltin's because I like swapping out wheels fast on the course and not chase loose runaway hardware around on the asphalt.
My favorite pushing setups are this one and the subsonic drop. Next Trap setup is the rollsrolls classic, 97mm Abecs and Revenge trucks. Trucks for push boards don't have to be pumpable, just lightweight and stiff. After experimenting on these push times, I'll probably try the LBL with Carvers pump some Trap times as well.
Yesterday's was 16.2 mph, I don't know how fast or slow that really is, because its the only 176-foot time posted! I'm hoping Chaput will clock his *current* Trap time and post it up while he's still got his winter layer of fat. :-)
Erin, that ride around Stanley was great, count your blessings having such a great "track" to ride on close to home... appreciate your comments though as my own harshest critic, I'm always feeling like the pump can be much smoother and more efficient!
Merry Christmas Gang!
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skogging forum is a go!
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On 12/24/2005 Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(68.224.nnn.nnn)
I'm in the mood to run with this.
Enforcing the guidleines and motivating the thread is my main objective, eh? YEA!
I would like at least a few moderators to back me up as sometimes I'm out of the electrical world for up to a week.
There's a Mission Beach longboarder who displays great pedidexterity that might be interested in joining the moderation team. PETE? Y0?
Anyways, please email me any additional moderation details that I might need to know.
I skated yesterday and will be shaking up the christmas pb/mb boardwalk before noon tomorrow. My legs are feeling in the best shape they've been in 20 years.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skogging
I'll be around for this stuff for sure! I need somewhere to document the fun.
cYa
p.s. 2006 could be the year of the skumper but this skogging thread will be dedicated to the art of a flowing gait blending ice skating, roller skating, skateboarding, cross country skiing, jogging and skiing into an aerobic/meditative exercise. 6-10 miles is a good workout. I'm looking for techniques, equipment advances and fitness contributions. That should be a good start. Adam?
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skumping and skogging
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On 12/24/2005
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Eric and I were having some discussion about board set ups for pumping vs alternating leg pushing over on the 'fish a few days ago. Here's a bit from our 'coversation'.
Eric said, "In addition to a skumping set up and a skogging set up, I'd like to have one that can do both at least fairly well, 'cause that's how I skate for long distance. Some pushing, some pumping and whatever else gets far without expending too much energy. So that's why I want three distinct set ups. "
I hear what you're saying about going distance via both pumping and pushing. That is how I generally have been getting around long skateboard routes as well. But I am discovering that as I get better at pumping I am really pushing less and less. When I had the fortune to skate with James Peters last month I noted that he didn't push at all, like never! His pumping was so smooth and effortless, it just seemed so much more efficient than pushing so it made sense that he would default to pumping only.
I think as we get better we too may find that we are pumping exclusively. At first I was seeking a 'hybrid' board - one that was good for both pumping and pushing. But for one thing this is not an easy marriage given how very different the ideal set ups are from one another and for the other probably not even necessary as our pumping improves.
That's why I am opting for a board that is specifically set up for pumping and then I plan to use a light low board for when I am going places where I prefer to push....perhaps areas where the terrain is a bit too hilly to be comfortable for pumping. Of course, as I mentioned in an earlier post, there's always the generic longboard in one's quiver that can happily be pumped now and then and pushed the rest of the time when wants just a low key, non speed or distance oriented skate.
In reference to Chris Y's boards for skogging...they do seem to work very well for him in his boardwalk applications. And there are quite a few other brands of boards that would serve that kind of skogging quite well also. I am thinking however for serious long distance alternating pushes it would just make sense to have a lower and relatively light deck - easy on the knees and quads and not much weight to push.
If it was skogging was my main focus I would consider having a builder build a lowered deck that was lighter, somewhat shorter and with a specialized shape different from existing lowered boards which are most often speedboards. I think this type of light, low and stable board would be amazingly comfortable for alternating pushing. Given this type of set up I feel that a skater could go a very long ways quickly and efficiently. I suppose Adam Colton et. al. have already demonstrated this fact to some extent with their skate across America on LBL drop pins. However I think the board shape and weight could be refined a little more for optimum alternate pushing efficiency.
_________________
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How to Pump