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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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pupping deck
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On 3/5/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Decks, clothes, stickers, and dog walking accoutrements, all thats needed now are some pink wheels -- shameless indeed! ;-)
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That deck?
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On 3/5/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.138.nnn.nnn)
What u mean??
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Pupping
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On 3/5/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Skateboarding, girls, puppies, and the Brass's Spanish Flea? Tell me you didn't load that deck!
Shameless
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'Flatwave' fatboy
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On 3/5/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.138.nnn.nnn)
I Do feel i go on too much about my decks, but as you asked, its 43 3/4" long and 9 1/2" wide, the wheelbases need changing and im gonna fit the front truck further back on the nose, so anything from 25" to about 28", although its a little flexy to go any longer, its not as pretty as the LBL, but thats the life of a prototype?
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Munchh is so there!
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On 3/4/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Munchh, can I ask you to share your latest long distance pumper? I think others would be interested in and impressed with your board building skills too.
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pupping!
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On 3/4/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Oh my gawd, that is so good James!!! We must've watched your clip ten times. Sweet! And great choice of music for it too!
Pupping rules!
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alternative to pumping
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On 3/4/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
PUPPING
Erin, I figured you'd probably appreciate this one the most. ;-) Can't wait to hear your upcoming 'piper impressions!
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LBL Sandpiper YOWZA
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On 3/4/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
That is some amazing "performance art" -- nice job Erin and Larry!! I had to change parental controls on my browser to view it! ;-) I'm also replacing my drool bucket every 15 minutes or so, as Larry's currently cutting out something similar that I hope to pick up in Salem -- I really dug the pop on his 43" cruiser and shot mods over to him a while back. Erin, we have GOT to meet up on a trail on these, in a month or so!! Congrats on your upcoming pumpilicious arrival!
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LBL
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On 3/4/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.138.nnn.nnn)
Looking sweet Erin.
Oh yeah, Oh yeah!
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Sandpiper? Psh... SandPUMPER
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On 3/4/2006
Mr. Zogs
wrote in from
United States
(167.206.nnn.nnn)
Rockin' fabric choice! The deck looks saweet! Looks to be an awesome shape for skumping and your setup is gonna rock! So when is LBL going to start a team? Cause you and Peters are seeming to be the first members he would add!
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LBL Sandpiper
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On 3/4/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
I'm about two weeks away from planting my feet on this new LongboardLarry long distance pumping deck. But I just had to sneak in a preview of the board for you guys here.
Larry has patiently worked on this design for a few months now. He tried quite a few variations until we/he came up with a prototype that we think will work well for this new disciple.
The deck should come in at around 43 inches with three wb options allowing me to customize the flex. The board in the photo is baltic birch although Larry is also experimenting with bamboo birch combos to see how the bambirch will work for skumping.
I think Larry intends to add this board to his line up but for more info you could contact him directly.
The board is in the mail right now and undoubtedly it will be held up at customs for a while as the guys there just can't resist a beautiful longboard and they tend to marvel over it for a while before releasing it to its rightful, and impatiently waiting, owner.
I will be sure to give you a complete review of how the board skates as soon as I get it and have it set up with my Carver CX's and big, fat, soft Avilas.
Let me know what you think of it so far.
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dream LDP setups
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On 3/3/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Sean that's pretty close to whats comin' up on the next 41" RoeRacing deck! Also appears to be some rumors of a truck that should be very "fluid" and maybe flow like "water" in the near future, right?? ;-) Until then the CX or Splits with Khiro white barrel/cone combos are sweet. I've tried some nice hourglass stock bushings from the GUS truck, the "poor man's Radikal", but only in T/S so far.
The toe stop/foam pad thing can be combined if you like, that gets really into personal prefs and fortunately is one of the least expensive mods to play around with! My Roe LDP deck has PPS wedge in the back heel and front toe making a "custom camber" - and the front wedge, plus a hand-made bolt-bushing toe stop also acts as a good substitute for the TNR, just not as adjustable. But LOCKED in!
Well, you've got snow on the ground, I'm on the injured list for the moment, long posts are good ;-)
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Best LDP Setup Ever?
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On 3/3/2006
Mr Zogs (Sean C)
wrote in from
United States
(167.206.nnn.nnn)
Hmmm... This is probably going to be pretty darn out there... anywho
Deck -
Turner SummerSki type Construction - Light Weight; A small yet effective Camber that is EXCELLENT for Fast & Long Term Acceleration; Mild Concave; board length around 40" or so by around 9" give or take; 26" - 28" wheelbase; at least 3" of wide nose
Trucks -
Radikal Dragon Claw + Carver CX = Crazy Hybrid Breed Truck
or maybe a Splitfire type Carver CX? That'd be nuts as well. Well, why not go for it all... Bearings in the pivot and bushing seat... Just for style points... then again, what would that feel like when pumping? Much smoother and flowier? Of course the truck should be cnc milled or forged to be light weight and have 8mm axles as well
Bushings -
Hmmm... What style in this case? I've heard Holey bushings' hourglass shape is incredible in that it allows for a super deep turn, while still offering great rebound. Then again, it can't have the same rebound as a deep thick barrel, can it? So for the bottom bushings, I'd say an hourglass or barrel bushing poured in some high rebound thane such as the Reflex stuff. For the top, I personally like barrels on top because they seem to allow a nice deep carve better than a conical, but thats just my opinion. also that should be in a nice high rebound thane such as reflex stuff.
Wheels -
76mm Lotta Thane wheel; Duro from 75-78a; Sounds alot like Chaput's future 77a Reflex Gumballs... HIGH GRIP AND HIGH HIGH REBOUND
Bearings -
Ceramic (just for the hell of it, also there would be less likely chance of friction building up in the bearing after like, 3 hours of nonstop pumping) Biltin style bearings, with a thin fast lube; The bearings would have deep inner races so that they really accelerate a noticable amount in each pump, while still having a high top speed; Seals instead of shields for ease of cleaning, and delrin ball retainers?
Griptape -
Gritty Gritty Gritty tape -> The tape that comes on insects and roes... That stuff RULES
A toe stop? -
TNR Adjustable toe stop... or maybe one that you can actually move somehow while your riding; move it into position for an uphill climb, then back for flatland; as we all know, ease of changing stances and positions on the board is a must
Foam blocks anywhere? -
Maybe a gradual "gas pedal" type foam block on the kick? I always like the feel of my back foot supported in a pump... then again, it could get annoying after awhile...
Rimz? -
Gotta keep them fancy schmancy bearings clean. Also a plus -> Added style points!
Oh, another must - Shock Pads! -
Gotta keep the ride smooth; Those fat hunks of thane called wheels are great for cushyness, but a nice thick shockpad under each truck does wonders
Okay, I'll admit, alot of this stuff is outrageous and crazy, but who cares! I'm sitting here at home, with snow covering the ground AGAIN, having nothing to do but ramble. Still neat to think about it...
Oh yeah, Chris, I just got some 70mm Lemon & Lime ZigZags and I must say. Holy hell, THEY ROCK!!! Having a set of Manx, Hotspots, Grippins, and ridden sets of Avalons, Avilas, Cambrias, and even back to Hyper Stradas, this things take the cake for best slalom wheels. The grip is amazing for the duros, and the rebound is excellent! Definitely excellent wheels. I also got my 2nd set of Biltins, this time Abec 7, once again I have to say great product. There's no match to built in spacers as far as precision goes (well, in terms of ease of use - nobody really feels like trying to track down precision spacers for like, 15 bucks for 4). Why can't the skate community be full of companies that care more about making an excellent product rather than just making money?
This post is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long... Yeah welp.
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carvers, pins etc
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On 3/2/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
The devils advocate stuff is great Chris, I think the CX could use more technical scrutiny. The benefit I get from them is not dead-stop pump gears (although those *are* useful on inclines) but that it has a good 12-15 mph maintenance gears.
It feels to me as if the CX's horizontal swivel action relies more on the pump energy coming from the front truck/bushings and less from the spring/snap of the deck's camber. In other words a CX/deck combination's pumping power feels like 60%(truck)/40%(deck) whereas a SplitFire/deck might be 40%/60%. Carver's C7 pump by comparison is almost exclusively based on this swivel action -- which is great for slow stylish surfing, but tops out its high speed very quickly. The C7 is a fun parking lot / skate park truck, but will never keep up in a race. So the CarverCX strikes the balance between these two "extremes" having both the horizontal swivel for an easy cruising pump, and the vertical / traditional pump for acceleration, control, and relying a little more on the power of the deck's snap. (Pls tell me that makes a little sense??)
I would still choose my SplitFire over CarverCX on a GS hill as I know that GS will have tights that require fast responsive pumps, plus the race is short and that level of pumping's easily maintained for a minute or so, but not for up to 2 hours like on a marathon!
You're right about the shorter hangar not busting pins as often, back to physics eh? That was back on Randal 150's -- and truth be told I'm sure some of it was due to the extremely sloppy bushings and contact between pin and hangar.
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Carvering
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On 3/2/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
So what's the Carver like after you get it up to speed? I've ridden one on carpeting at a trade show and yes, I could pump it from a dead stop. My question is, what's the value of being able to pump a board from a dead stop? Is it like "cheating" to push when you start your journey? Do you need it like a granny gear for steeper hills? Wouldn't you suffer then, on the ensuing downhill sections?
I'm know that I'm playing the devil's advocate here, so don't take offense. A while ago, eXkate torsion trucks got quite a buzz because you could carve inside an 8 foot circle on a four foot board. I always wondered how slow you'd have to be going and why anyone would to do that. Beacuse you can, maybe?
On the subject of kingpin stress and/or breakage, it seems to me that if you had narrower trucks, softer bushings, and a shorter wheelbase, you wouldn't be putting the same load on the kingpin, and a grade 8 replacement would be a 50 cent part that could last you for years. But truth be told, we shouldn't be dicking around with any truck that is made for pumping that has a cantilevered kingpin. It's just asking for trouble. When you really think about it, the LDP application requires the most high tech equipment available. This board is all about long term efficiency, and you can't find that in a bloated cheap-skate. And not unlike slalom, we're still trying to figure out what works the best without breaking the bank.
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cramping relief...
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On 3/2/2006
T. O.
wrote in from
United States
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
Try some of the foam wedge material and stick a customized
thin piece to the deck to kind of fill in under your arch
Might work if your wearing thinner soled shoes
like Vans...
Or maybe some store bought in-shoe orthotics might help if you're wearing heavier
rubber.
Just thinkin aloud, really enjoy this thread, Tod
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foot arch pain experience
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On 3/2/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Here are a few things that contribute to foot cramps over long distances. This is from experiences, especially having stepped off the deck after a couple marathons and being almost completely unable to walk for 5-10 minutes.
- Having the front of your foot angled up from concave, exercising a whole different set of arch muscles than if on a flatter deck. If concave, I would steer clear of the kind that turns up quickly at the edges of the deck. I like a wider, gradual concave starting from the center of the deck, if any. LBL's have a nice smooth concave for example.
- The subconscious tightening of your foot muscles, putting more effort of your pumping into your ankles and feet, rather than your legs, torso and upper body.
- Shoes with incorrect arch support, you need to figure out what shoes work best for you. What works for me perfectly in running doesn't translate over to LDP well. I've found a certain type of 'ES' shoe and a particular Vans shoe feel great even after miles - while a couple other skate shoe brands almost always lead to pain. Munchh mentioned running shoes, I'd advise to stay clear but that's my personal pref. I like having a flatter platform ON my foot like a skate shoe, to control the deck under my foot.
- Like SS said, longer distances, endurance, riding... increasing distance over time!
- Softening up the ride underneath - either soft risers or softer duro wheels, or sometimes both. This is the big speed versus momentum trade-off equation you've gotta figure out, based on how smooth the trails are you normally expect to ride.
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Pumpin' Trucks & Slalom Decks
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On 3/2/2006
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(71.192.nnn.nnn)
Chris I use a 36" Roe Eldorado with 78a Gumballs on the back (with Original S6 truck) and 76mm 78a Flywheels in the front (with a Carver CX truck).
The Roe has a touch of camber and a smidgen of flex, very much like what you described.
The thing with the Carver CX front truck is that it is sooo much easier to pump than any other truck (with the possible exception of the Sidewinder).
I can EASILY pump from a dead stop on them, which I find impossible on any other truck. The pumping action is so much different.
I like the 160mm size. Stable but out turns anything but an Original.
The different front and rear wheels are to even out the difference in width between the 160mm front truck and the 150mm back truck.
This set up is very effective for pumping.
For long distance I would want a longer, wider nose.
I find that the toes of my front foot hang over the edge of the deck which seems to the cause of my foot cramping up after an hour or so of non stop no touch pumping. Or maybe that's not the cause at all. Maybe I'm just not used to using my foot muscles like that.
Does anybody have any thoughts about the foot cramping issue?
Would a deck with a longer, wider nose help?
Or do I simply need to build up my tolerance for non stop pumping?
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CX for distance
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On 3/2/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
One reason I moved over to the non-slalom Carver CX setup and stuck with it throughout 2005, over the reversed kingpin setups -- is that after hundreds of miles I haven't yet snapped a front kingpin on the CX (though have snapped a couple rear pins.) Whereas on the Randals or Gullwings, even in flipped config, with really loose bushings, would still snap after 100+ miles. And the loose, surfy feel of the CarverCX still works great on the longest distance flat trail pumps. The distance pumps don't usually require lightning-speed reactions around tight cones -- so wider hangars don't seem to be a huge handicap, though I've been using Splits lately because I do like them for controlled accelerations from time to time.
Btw, some of us had a thread going on another forum recently about narrowing-down the CX hangar to something more slalom-like, not sure what that would feel like...
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newer skumping setups!!
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On 3/2/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Chris, my next setup for the 'gear' page is the one I've been commuting to work on. A modded down RoeRacing 41", with 29" wheelbase, Split-Fire on front and Tracker off-set on the rear. Basically its a MSGS!! (Mondo Super GS) No Radikal front trucks for Long Distance trail Pumping and all its varied terrain ... read the 'Trucks' forum for why, but I think you already know why.
Most of the LDP setups *are* slalom setups, just sized up a couple notches. And the reason for this longer wheelbase, and larger wheels is that I've found this to be the sweet spot for maintaining (not just peaking at occasionally) a "high" flatland speed of 12-13 mph. The GPS has been great for pointing that kinda thing out.
The Avilas still treating me well for the extreme asphalt conditions, though I'm currently also set up with 75a Gummies on another trail board. The Zags so far are great for skumping if the asphalt is golf-course smooth, but once it gets rocky, I want something lower than the 80's. (of course, I'm loving the Zags for slalom.) It sounds like the future is looking PINK!! ;-)
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Narrow Minded?
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On 3/2/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
I've been lurking in here every once in a while, and it seems to me that many of the trucks that are being considered are just too darm wide. I can't help but wonder why anyone would use trucks different than what is being raced on in slalom. I've been using a 90mm to 110mm hangers on my GS and Hybrid boards because they turn better than wider trucks AND they provide better traction than wider trucks which tend to push in a pump or a turn. I use offset rear trucks from 30 to 35 degrees which provide a lot of forward drive (instead of oversteering the rear) when pumping. My fronts range from 45 degrees (Super G or 6 wheeler) to 60 degrees for Tight. I use tall, soft, high-rebound bushings which makes side to side pumping a breeze. Bushings alone can make a huge difference in the way a truck feels and performs. Removing slop from your trucks also adds traction and efficiency to every turn. You can haul ass on a board with a 21" inner-hole to inner-hole wheelbase without stability issues.
So how come no one seems to be using slalom setups? What kind of pumping are y'all doing?
If I had to guess as to what I'd like pumping across the planet, it would probably be about a 30" to 36" wood/composite deck with a little concave and a little flex, a 90mm Radikal front truck wedged between 50 to 60 degrees, and a 90mm Split-Fire rear hanger on a 35 degree Randal Downhill baseplate, 70mm Retro ZigZags in the Lime 80a Reflex formula, and Biltin Bearings. Maybe the future Pink 77a Gumballs or Retro Lime/Lemon Gumballs (80a/83a) would be a killer tank-like pumper.
I have to think that maintaining good roll-speed with a decent sized high rebound wheel and efficient pumping from a firm high-traction wheel is the call. Wider trucks and longer wheelbases may be more stable and/or more comfortable, but they can only be efficient at high speeds.
Comments? Suggestions?
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more slide talk
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On 3/2/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Munchh don't let wheel duro stop you from learning slide. When I got seriously into longboarding I felt to be safe I had to be able to slide whatever deck I was skating to a controlled stop. I learned on my DH with 74a flywheels! I could bring the board to a fast stop in a very short distance from 30 - 35 kmph. That's my claim to fame and I don't really skate those speeds or that intensity any more but it is good to know that I can stop a board if I have to.
Carving off speed is handy but sometimes there just isn't the time or road width to do so. I think it is essential to be able to slide a longboard. Get those gloves happening and sprinkle in a little slide practice everytime you are skating any sort of hill.
And of course in the meantime enjoy the saftey and fun of skumping.
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slide
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On 3/2/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.137.nnn.nnn)
I did start to learn, it was more amusing than anything, but then the weather got bad, i had an opp and a few 180's grabbing the board was as far as i got!
I never wanted to slide my soft wheels either, so put a board together with 92a flashbacks for learning and rode my other boards on a hill that has a really long flat run off.
But now i can carve off speed with the loose trucks, so i'll get back to the sliding when the weather is alot better and i've made some better gloves.
I'm just sticking with the skumping for now.
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safety stop - SLIDE!!
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On 3/2/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Munchh, you need to learn to slide! Comes in handy as a high speed stop.
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BIGGER BUY THE DAY
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On 3/2/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.137.nnn.nnn)
Yeah your right, i'm not letting anything go anymore, the boardrobe is nearly full!
I could never beleive how loose my friend ran his trucks, i always wanted the feel my bushings and because i was heavy thought that was good and i was mostly riding paths and single car width roads, so looking back my carving was really PANTS, no wonder i got so scared of the speed i was getting towards the end of last summer, my carves were getting longer/bigger, and i was in drop knee more and more, i didn't know how to stop the speed wobble, so my rear truck just got tighter and running off became a matter of life or death!!
I've got far more control now, its mad that i rode my boards like that, if only i had known about wedging, those originals might have been fine, i've got the big ones now, but they are on the tails of a popsikle deck with 109 off road wheels, nice on grass hills!
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How to Pump