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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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same board/ different styles
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On 4/21/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(142.22.nnn.nnn)
Al, I don't doubt that the boys were just switching back and forth between skating and filming. Using one board and one bike, I think.
I think what we are seeing, demonstrated nicely in this video, is how different pump styles can be. As well, during a single pump sessions most ldp'ers are likely incorporating a least three distinct variations to pumping, I know I do. And because of this I think it can seem like the setups are the basis of the difference but really it depends on the skaters personal style and the particular variation of pumping they are applying at any given time.
I find I prefer the slower cadence pumps myself but there are times when I apply little quick 'pumpettes', especially to start up a burst of power or to ascend a small incline, times I use an undulating 'dolphin' type movement for long sweeping flowing pumps and times that I rely upon my bread and butter power-pump which is somewhere in between the two aforementioned pumps.
Then there's body type, strength, endurance and the 'head space' of each skater.
Clearly there are a many reasons that one long distance pump skater's style can look very different from another.
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same boards?
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On 4/21/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
I do think they were using the same board in some shots, but derek's pumps seemed to be in the faster, lower gear mode..so it appeared to be a different, shorter deck. But if they indeed were on the same board, there must have been some adjustments going on, because the styles were so different. If the same board was used for all the shots, and no major adjustments were made...then I think we got one heck of a diverse set-up goin' there! Maybe Derek or James can provide some info. on this topic.
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vids, hills, and stuff
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On 4/21/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Wow Derek you really kept it clean. Thanks for leaving the herky-jerky stuff on the editing room floor this time. ;-) As has been noted here, sometimes the ride FEELS great but looks are a whole different game!!
You're too kind on the Giant Peach, er, Hill comments Derek, I was struggling over the crest -- its fun to set hurdles and make 'em now and then! That's what the pseudo-competitive stuff is all about anyway, the "marathons" and Cyber Mile, etc -- it has more to do with ones *personal* best than anything else. I'm shooting for a sub-2-hour marathon this summer for example, but I would be STOKED to see someone that's got 1 hour 45 minutes already as a goal, I'd want to know what other efficiencies there are in pump style and technique. And that's just one side of it... stopwatch aside, gettin out and groovin' for miles keeps me amped.
I understand where todd's shortboard-twitchy dork comments come from, it totally makes sense when you think of shortboard pumping an 18" wheelbase over a stretch of 2 or more miles, that does look pretty damn funny. It's like using a hand-held bike pump to pump up a gigantic tractor tire. But on the flip side -- watching Michael Dong pumping a short board 176 feet in under 7 seconds is phenomenal!! The course dictates the wheelbase and wheel size (overall deck length isn't so crucial but WB is!)
And yep Erin -- thats the new Roe LDP board I've been testing the past weeks, it'll be up soon! We were just switching off with the camera, trying to remember how to ride a bike ;-)
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boards?
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On 4/21/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(142.22.nnn.nnn)
I dunno Al, it looked to me like maybe Derek may have actually been skating the same board as James in the latest vid. Same board? Or just my imagination? Or were you talking the boards being skated in the earlier vid perhaps.....?
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great video Derek!
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On 4/21/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
Just got the time to check out that recent video. I like the way that James seems to manage or conserve his movements which appear very efficient, and somewhat effortless..probably an unconscious by product of his habitual Ld riding. Derek seems to ride with enthusiasm and energy, though doesn't seem to be as energy efficient as James. This might be because the wheel base of Dereks board seems to be about 4 or more inches less than James, which would put him in a lower gear(if I am correct?)..but great for the uphill stuff...as demonstrated in the vid! If those are CX's that you guys are riding on front, they seem to perform incredibly! Excellent and informative video guys!
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On 'Dork style' and board length
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On 4/21/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
Toddc,
Good commentary! I never really thought about the decklength in regards to videos! Maybe I'm not really as 'dorky' as I appear on video, because I've always been filmed pumping a 33" slalom deck or a regular 31" street deck. However, we can't discount out the real possibility that I'm gonna be a dorkmeister no matter what I ride! Anyway, one day, when I learn how to post videos, I'll try to put something up..if for no other reason than the chuckle factor! But I think I'll take your advice and use my 43"longboard this time around!
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Thanks
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On 4/20/2006
lonerider
wrote in from
United States
(65.249.nnn.nnn)
Thanks for the tips Erin. Yea, I started reading backwards in this particular forum and read the past month of two of posts and definitely seemed to be pointing towards larger wheels. I'm mainly doing shorter distance pumps in my company parking lot which has ultra-smooth pavement.
I do have a set of 75a Gumballs and 88a Strikers as well, but no board in that wheelbase range. I am looking at the Lush Bamboo Kilima dropped which is 44" with a WB33" (too long?) with my set of Holeys. Also looking at a Loaded Bamboo Vanguard since I liked the Oak version so much. I think I'm going to hold off on shopping for a LDP board (with CarverCX trucks is sounds like) for now as I have a park/bowl setup coming together).
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power to the pumpers....!
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On 4/20/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Wow!
You guys are really pushing, really good to see, Derek your back foot has the same sort of bounce as Erin has, was that something you had in mind Erin when getting the LBL dailed?
James seems to be more twisting his torso, as his back foot is pretty much flat on the deck, its the same as the way i think i pump my slalom deck around.
Its weired to think i never try pumping my skump setup like this, i always end up with my front foot doing most the work, i need to try that. Anyway all three of you are throwing the back end alot more than i expected, its alot of great stuff to work on.
I got a run this evening and managed to throw a rub on the front again, i wonder if a wedge would help stop wheel bite with the carver, i have 3/4"'s of riser with 70mm flashbacks, so i'm suprised you lot use bigger wheels?
Its great to actualy see your style and if thats your general speed, i still haven't got out of 1st gear!!
Cool.
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lonerider - wheel size
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On 4/20/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Hey lonerider, good to hear that you are experimenting with your set ups and wheel sizes for long distance pumping. I don't run anything smaller than a 76 mm wheel but that's because the pavement on my routes tends to have some really rough sections to it. I think the 70mm might work well if the pavement is smooth but somehow I'm not sure I'd want to go as small as 66mm.
As for risers, I used to kind of fuss about that but given that I don't really ever push my ldp board any more the height of the risers to clear the larger size wheels isn't an issue.
You may also want to try a sligthly longer wb if you have an appropriate board for it. Somewhere around 28 - 30 inches seems to work well over the long haul.
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super pumpers vid
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On 4/20/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Derek, that vid rocks! Man you guys have changed your skumping styles for sure.
James, you arms are very quiet now. You must be generating a lot of power with your legs and torso. It would be useful to have some shots from the front of the skaters too.
Derek, I like how your rhythm works with the beat of the music. You are getting more bounce from the deck. Was that because you were on James' deck perhaps and you are a bit heavier? You use more arm action and your shoulders face more forward than James'. Perhaps has to do with a difference in body type and height?
Really helpful to see you both in action. And good work filming from the bike - I can appreciate how tricky that must be.
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66mm vs 70mm wheel
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On 4/20/2006
lonerider
wrote in from
United States
(65.249.nnn.nnn)
For flatland pumping, smooth pavement, which do you recommend? I know that smaller wheels accelerate faster off the push, but bigger wheels keep there speed up. What I don't know if where that line falls for these two sizes. I've previously been pumping with 81a Grippins on a 30" deck (19.5"WB) and 88a Flashblacks. However, I do have to add a bit of riser to avoid wheelbite (3/8") and was looking at the smaller wheels... anyone have an opinion?
Thanks
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skumpers of the world unite
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On 4/20/2006
derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
right on erin! glad you had a killer ride today :)
well- here's the video link. james was a bit sketched out when i told him i would make the video. i totally would have put some bad moves of his up here, if he'd ever make one ;)
http://media.putfile.com/silly-pumpers
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skumper's on fire!
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On 4/20/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Yay Derek! Can't wait to see the vid. You're crazy riding a two wheeler like that....get back on four will ya!
James, way to rip it up! Conquer the hills!
I had a wicked skate today myself! James, those tips really helped. Hands closer together, knees bent, shoulders facing forward....what a difference. Thanks for the coaching.
Just rockin to the ipod, I could've skated forever. LDP'ing just keeps getting better and better!
Skumper's are on fire. Its cool, its surfy, its twitchy...but dood the way it feels to skump...it sure isn't dorky!
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dorks
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On 4/20/2006 toddc
wrote in from
United States
(198.39.nnn.nnn)
longboard pump=cool and surfy
shortboard pump= twitchy and dorky
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james and the giant hill
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On 4/20/2006
derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
erin- i'm a total sucker for those "dare" bets. james and i went out and shot some video this morning from a bike. a bike is a lot harder to ride than i remember. i'll get something posted today.
and munchh- that's cool that you like that video. i was riding james' libtech on the big uphill. and speaking of james and the great big hill...
James was on fire today, climbing over the biggest hill on the trail for the first time ever- during warmups, nonetheless... that hill was the final barrier he needed to climb in order to skump the whole trail. and it's only april, for cryin' out loud.
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no copy cats!
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On 4/20/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
By the way, I must have missed Dereks comments, 8 posts back, because I was saying basically the same thing as he already mentioned. I just came across it in doing a quick review...but I agree completely. What seems and feels great, can video shoot completely awkward!
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video style etc..
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On 4/20/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
It is an amazing phenomena how pumping feels so great, but when seen on video, often looks completely dorky. However, its not so with all riders. When I view videos of myself pumping next to my nephew, I appear to be the geek, even though I can out race and out distance him everytime. Really, he looks very cool, smooth and in style. One explanation might be body height. I'm about 6'1. In our video he is about 5'8. I think a lanky frame makes for some pretty freaky pump videos, at least in my case. But then again not all of us are mean't for hollywood, I guess!
By the way, Erin....those vids of you really aren't that bad! They would be even better, I think, if you were using a shorter wheelbase...a lower gear, that is. Your style is pretty good! By the way, some day get back to me on your impression of the DP set-ups if you ever had a chance to get them going.
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vids
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On 4/20/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(193.113.nnn.nnn)
Click here for link
Hey Derek,
are you in the 'entropy' vid on 'pavedwave.com', its the vid i always tell people to watch if they want to see what Skumping is, its my favorite anyway.
Nice one JP.
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trucks and pumping
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On 4/19/2006 toddc
wrote in from
United States
(68.123.nnn.nnn)
HC, that doesn't sound like you. Out of shape?
Regarding the CX's -I have it mounted on a 44" Pocket Pistol Ditch Killer. That board has an elongated nose., so I added two holes to the front and mounted it a truck length further than standard. I added a shallow wedge (reversed) and the CX rides flat, about 3/8" total added height. Not too high really. No wheel bit with 70mm ZZreds.
I find that it pumps quickly and easily up to speed. They ride great on that board. With the tail you can easily do an old fashioned tic tac into pump and get flying. r you can start it from a standstill. Yet to really test it on a hill - That's what RIIs are for - but at 15-18 mph it feels ok. 30 would scare me a bit on these.
I like how it feels though, and I am amazed at how much of a diff axle placement can make.
Regarding axle placement I also just got my first Radikal front. Dang cool. Design-wise, have you guys noticed how shallow the hanger is? The pivot is at least a 1/2" shorter than a similar angled Randall. Is that where the quickness in steering is coming from? More so or less than the bearings in the hanger?
I need to go to double reds on it and see how it feels when it needs some more weight. Riding it on a GS Wefunk with Airflow truck. Friggin sweet turning. Excellent cntrol and traction, but am only about 25% of the way as far as pushing it goes. Also super easy to pump. Added chicken style wedges and it is long but I feel locked in. Not a longboard but h-t-h it's about 23". Maysey's sig slalom model goes down to about 17.5" (which seems twitchy to me - perfect for him). And popsicles are 15.5. Not sure I can handle it on a shorter WB.
Maybe this should be in the trucks forum...
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cx
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On 4/19/2006 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.139.nnn.nnn)
i finally mounted my cx on my libtec longboard 24"WB , indy flat rear.
the swiveling action is interesting, much more restricted compared to the c7.
for LDP, I can see why peters was excited about this truck, it makes low speed pumping easier (more efficient) than a standard slalom setup, I ride it like in his videos, off the front with tight stance and not much arm swinging. But I am way out of shape and a couple of laps around the parking lot, i was out of gas already. And like Chris yandall said, one thing i don't like is that its unbalanced, my rear foot gets tired right away, almost want to pump parallel stance. Anyways its amazing you guys are pumping miles and miles.
for low speed carving, i wish it was turnier, maybe with even softer bushings? the stock ones are nice though. (Would like to get the RTR next.) Overall the steering feels vague, lacks that precise feel of a slalom truck. (I still love my GUS truck, peters, how do you like yours?)
for pushing, it sucks, way too high (to avoid wheel bite), at least it's not squirrely like the c7 that i tried before.
Hey peters, for something really different, you should get a snakeboard, or that freeline thing. i had a snakeboard before, they are fun, in some ways the cx is kind of a snakeboard/skateboard hybrid.
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more vids!
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On 4/19/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Derek, I dare you and James to put up a recent vid!!! Ha, ha, ha....humbling it is ...but hey I was brave enough to do it and I'm a rank beginner. Let's see some good form by the seasoned ldp'er among us! Bring it on bro! :-)
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pumping videos
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On 4/19/2006
derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
too funny munchh!
maybe that's why there are so few videos posted ;)
for me, the first time i watched my pumping form, it was like watching a horror film... or maybe just really bad comedy.
i was all slumped over like the hunchback of notre dame. this is a humbling sport, to say the least :)
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feels and looks.....
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On 4/19/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Derek,
your spot on, while i was away, we filmed a few runs on the DP's, it felt great like seeing those deep carves you see on all the vids....
Some hope, i look like i had a board up my back, but i'm sure i was getting low and bending more???
hehe...
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vids
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On 4/19/2006
derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
james and i are planning to get out tomorrow, and hopefully get some new video taken- our forms have changed quite a bit since the last time we filmed, and frankly, i find my old form just plain embarassing ;)
the toughest thing about filming though is that it never seems to look as good as it feels. or maybe that's just me...
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foot placement
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On 4/19/2006 Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(142.22.nnn.nnn)
'Technique stalker', I really like that term Munchh. I have been that myself but there is precious little visual representation of LDP'ing on the net. Lots of talk but a picture can save a thousand words. I'd like to see more brave skumpers posting their vids so that we can share our styles and stoke and inspire one another.
I definitly find getting my front foot over the front truck mount really a sweet spot for LDP'ing. Even when I am skating in other styles I find my foot sneaking back to that familiar pumping spot now and then. I dunno about tipping the nose, hasn't been a problem for me even with the boards where the front truck is mounted right at the nose. Perhaps your rear foot is too far forward unbalancing the board that way?
It is tempting to go longer and harder at ldp'ing than one first intended to when setting out for a sesh because its just so much fun! And I have to be aware of conditioning muscles not used to the movements specific to pumping to avoid injury. So I can relate to your muscle soreness Munchh. I lift weights and stretch to help stay fit and prevent injuries but again once I get bitten by the pump bug on a long groove I just can't stop skumping....ahhhhhhhhhh!!!
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How to Pump